BDSM in the movies

[lark sparrow]

particularly in the movie Secretary, with Maggie Gyllanhall and James Spader...particularly the ending. Has anybody else seen this? (Go go go go see it!) It's the best I've seen a wide release movie do with a BDSM relationship. It's the only movie I've seen where BDSM isn't just sarcastically implied or part of some sociopath's life of sin.

I _even got the feeling_ that the writer or director was able to become empathetically involved with the needs of the two main characters, which I've likewise, never seen on screen.

But what the heck was up with the Gap Family ending?

I felt the same way... though really enjoyed the movie in it's entirety. The performances were very good, and the general tone of the subject was extremely refreshing.

It seemed much more subtle, slowly paced until the conclusion, then went into hyper-drive towards the tidy "happy ending". Kind of lost the plot for me as well. From kinky and very quirky, to vanilla with a giggle and a wink.

I saw it with two "vanilla", though kink friendly enough people, and they thought "huh?" at the ending as well.

 

[evesdream]

fresh air

Moyd's Jewel, that's a superb interview with Steven Shainberg- thank you again.

I think they've taken down the archive of it since, unfortunately.

He described his directorial interest as a way of focusing on the ways in which people bridge their isolations. Maybe this is the key to what makes his movie so enthralling? He also talked about being "struck"as having access to feeling. It isn't the sex so much as what it does to the characters, quoth he. This seems to make all the difference when telling a story about sex.

I'd love to see the day when most people can recognize that heavy BDSM elements in a relationship aren't appalling after all, that it can be an emotional breakthrough for the people involved.

And Lark Sparrow, I really appreciate your contribution.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Secretary

I recently rented the DVD of this movie, and it was really well done. We discussed this movie before, but I just had to make a mention of it and recommend it to others.

I am gonna rent Quill, soon. Has anyone seen it yet? If you have did you like it.

I like Geoffrey Rush, so I won't be disappointed.

 

[Amaterasu]

I just watched this film on DVD today...

I thought it was a thoughtful portrayal of BDSM in the mainstream - however, I thought the ending was kind of quick and too tidy, too.

What I really enjoyed was seeing the vulnerability of Spader's character, of his self-doubt, his insecurity in his chosen path, his care for Lee when he types her the letter telling her he is disgusting.

It is easy to only see the outward harsh domination of a Dom/Domme, and not see the care they tender towards their submissives. This film made me see a side of BSDM I have not had the opportunity to see before.

 

[psiberzerker]

I personally would like to nuke hollywood for making "Exit to Eden" a comedy. I'm not a big fan of Rice, but when she was writing as Rampling, and dropped all the cheezy vampire shit she can actually write. A decent version would have to be X rated though, oh well.
I've never seen a decent treatment of bondage, discipline, sadism, or masochism in a movie. Quills was pretty damned close, but still treated it as an abusive psychosis instead of a healthy way to exorsize sexual fantasies.
As for the documentaries, they're at least as bad. Instead of a bias free treatment, we usually get an editorial that's tantamount to cletus the slack jawed yokel pointin' at the freaks. "Hey Mandine, lookit them weirdo's an' what the'r doin'."
Of course if Mandine says anything about it, he'd probably smack the hell out of her, git all ornery, and knock her up to shit out another kid, and the irony will be lost. I don't expect much from the TV, or it's big brother.

 

[DiannaVesta]

Did anyone see that episode of “Married with Children” (great show) where Marcy was a dominant bitch? She was demanding, controlling and even had Bud saying, “Yes, Marcy Ma’am!”

It was really cool and I’m sure it made some little dickies get hard.

Dianna

 

[D's mariposa]

Funny, this came up in a phone conversation with a friend the other day..

I hate to admit it but I like Buffy.. (There's some weird thing out here that grown ups don't watch BtVS...) But any way, it came out that we both thought Spike was a submissive. I mean on one hand, you got this bad ass vampire with axes to grind and people to munch ( pre chip, of course) but on the other hand.. In his relationship with Drusilla, he was devoted to her. Even though she was mad, he tried to take care of her and all that. His whole attitude just seemed so subbie to me. And when she left him, (or sent him away, whatever) it didn't seem (to me) that it was just your normal "girlfriend of a 100 or so years just broke up with me" type of reaction, it was as if his life lacked a focus, or a guide.

And then the next woman he falls for is a strong dominant type. Another thing that makes me see him as submissive was the musical eppy. For those who are not Buffy fans.. There was an episode where everyone was enspelled by a deamon and kept breaking out in song. But they had no control over what they sang, so what came out was usually things they would have preferred not to share. So Spike has a line (he's singing to Buffy..) "You know, I'm your willing slave.."

Anyway, although it was never spelled out implicitly, I've always felt there was a D/s undercurrent with him.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Can I help?

I personally would like to nuke hollywood for making "Exit to Eden" a comedy. I'm not a big fan of Rice, but when she was writing as Rampling, and dropped all the cheezy vampire shit she can actually write. A decent version would have to be X rated though, oh well.
I've never seen a decent treatment of bondage, discipline, sadism, or masochism in a movie. Quills was pretty damned close, but still treated it as an abusive psychosis instead of a healthy way to exorsize sexual fantasies.
As for the documentaries, they're at least as bad. Instead of a bias free treatment, we usually get an editorial that's tantamount to cletus the slack jawed yokel pointin' at the freaks. "Hey Mandine, lookit them weirdo's an' what the'r doin'."
Of course if Mandine says anything about it, he'd probably smack the hell out of her, git all ornery, and knock her up to shit out another kid, and the irony will be lost. I don't expect much from the TV, or it's big brother.

Exit to Eden could have been really hot.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Did anyone see that episode of “Married with Children” (great show) where Marcy was a dominant bitch? She was demanding, controlling and even had Bud saying, “Yes, Marcy Ma’am!”

It was really cool and I’m sure it made some little dickies get hard.

Dianna

I remember thinking that she would make a good dominant.

 

[Ebonyfire]

I just watched this film on DVD today...

I thought it was a thoughtful portrayal of BDSM in the mainstream - however, I thought the ending was kind of quick and too tidy, too.

What I really enjoyed was seeing the vulnerability of Spader's character, of his self-doubt, his insecurity in his chosen path, his care for Lee when he types her the letter telling her he is disgusting.

It is easy to only see the outward harsh domination of a Dom/Domme, and not see the care they tender towards their submissives. This film made me see a side of BSDM I have not had the opportunity to see before.

I think that it was a good representation of a natural male dominant finding out how to be a functioning dominant. At first he was dismayed, then alarmed, then regretful, and in the end he was accepting of his nature.

The ending sucked. I believe the Betty Crocker ending was needed to get the film distributed. It would not do fir kinky people to ride off into the sunset.

 

[HzDomme]

***warning***spoilers in this thread***


....particularly in the movie Secretary, with Maggie Gyllanhall and James Spader...particularly the ending. Has anybody else seen this? (Go go go go see it!) It's the best I've seen a wide release movie do with a BDSM relationship. It's the only movie I've seen where BDSM isn't just sarcastically implied or part of some sociopath's life of sin.

I _even got the feeling_ that the writer or director was able to become empathetically involved with the needs of the two main characters, which I've likewise, never seen on screen.

But what the heck was up with the Gap Family ending?

2nd question: are there any straight up, no pussyfooting, no behind doors or comic relief BDSM playtime, movies or books in fiction featuring this type of relationship?

I have to disagree slightly with " It's the only movie I've seen where BDSM isn't just sarcastically implied or part of some sociopath's life of sin."
Maybe they aren't portrayed as sociopaths but the lead characters are both portrayed as slightly warpped. Wouldn't it be great to see a movie that showed normal people in a normal BDSM relationship where neither appeared to have emotional problems?

Do not read further if you don't want my quick synopsis of the movie....

Wonderful opening: the lead female character in a collar with spreader bars attached to her wrists. She is getting coffee and papers for her boss.
We then revert back to 6 months prior and her release from a mental institution for cutting herself too deeply. She is released to an abusive father and cowering mother.
She finds the job with Mr. Gray. He sees her bandaged leg, realizes her nature and we assume that the relationship will be shown developing in it's natural course. It does, but only to a point. His character is a bit too sub at times. Maybe it is coming to grips with his true nature as others have said in reviews I've read.
There is a great spanking scene but then the director/writer? drops the ball. The rest of the movie consists of a fast forward to her in full submission (the opening scene) then back to being ignored and trying to provoke Gray into action. There is very little of a developing relationship shown.
Every time the movie seems to be getting good it falls apart.
A relationship with a very boring boyfriend adds nothing to the movie other than her last minute "escape" from marrying him when she realizes she wants Gray.
The ending scene with the parents, police and other characters was just ridiculous and the happily ever after ending was strictly Hollywood.

Rent it, but don't waste your money on the DVD until you've seen it yourself. You may find elements of it that you enjoy. I gave ours away as I'm sure the person I gave it to will also.


Exit To Eden: I'd love to see a serious version made but I did enjoy it for it's comedy. Replace Rosie O'Donnell and Dan Akroyd, take away the implied childhood trama and make it just a bit more serious and it could be good.

 

[Quint]

D's Mariposa,

I'm huge on Buffy and I too agree that there is often a strong D/s undercurrent in the relationships. If anything I think that Buffy and Spike were pretty steady switches--look at all the fighting that lead into the bedroom once they found out Spike's chip didn't apply to Buffy anymore. Plus I just REEEALLY want to picture Spike as the dominant partner. I agree that he was totally whipped by Dru, and Angel to a degree.

Did you see last night's episode, "Dirty Girls"? (God it was horrific.) Anyway, before the trauma, there is a lovely conversation between Spike and Faith about how beneath every "granola bar" male, there is a kinky fantasy just waiting to come out. And Faith explicitly said that she's always gonna be on top of it. And there were manacles. All very fun times, thanks to our friendly neighborhood Joss Whedon.

 

[majka]

woah....didn't see your post before I submitted mine...

 

[tr65]

Fashionistas has a good D's theme.