BDSM or not?

[Persephone36]

I'm quite glad Little Girl bumped up this thread. It's fascinating and incredibly well written by everyone who joined in the discussion. I can understand what KM is interested in exploring as a writer -- it's something I'm interested in exploring in R/L -- but certainly reading works of fiction is enlightening. Besides, I understand a writer's mind -- they are fascinating in and of themselves, lol.

But what is consent precisely -- that issue, particularly what cym outlined in her post where she began discussing how it can change from day to day -- and what that means in a D/s relationship -- that's all incredibly important issues for someone new to this (as I am). Things that need to be fully appreciated and understood. With both parties in a D/s relationship -- or for those beginning to explore it. I suppose it doesn't even matter if you're beginning in this lifestyle or not -- it's *always* an important issue to discuss thoroughly, no matter what point you are in your experience and knowledge.


P.

 

[PlayDoe]

Who's really in control?

BDSM has a top and bottom. A power exchange occurs in which both parties gain mutual satisfaction (sounds too simplistic). The top is in control but ultimately the sub is really in control. That is because they have freely given power to the top. If they (the sub) take it away, the relationship is over. This could be because the sub is no longer intersted in that person or whatever. The top could continue to try and force the sub to do the things the top desires, but what has this relationship become? It has become harassment, a one sided affair. There has to be mutual consent.

If you read a story about a woman who enjoys making love to a man, but is forced to have sex - is raped, would you label it a love story?

If a sub likes to be whipped but is kidnapped and whipped against their consent is that a story about BDSM? I don't think so.

 

[MsWorthy]

Re: Who's really in control?

BDSM has a top and bottom. A power exchange occurs in which both parties gain mutual satisfaction (sounds too simplistic). The top is in control but ultimately the sub is really in control. That is because they have freely given power to the top. If they (the sub) take it away, the relationship is over. This could be because the sub is no longer intersted in that person or whatever. The top could continue to try and force the sub to do the things the top desires, but what has this relationship become? It has become harassment, a one sided affair. There has to be mutual consent.

I think this would make a great new thread, PlayDoe.

If you read a story about a woman who enjoys making love to a man, but is forced to have sex - is raped, would you label it a love story?

If a sub likes to be whipped but is kidnapped and whipped against their consent is that a story about BDSM? I don't think so.

Excellent point, PlayDoe.

Has anyone read, Kiss the Girls or 1st to Die. These are stories about sadistic serial murders. There is quite a lot of sadism and bondage in these books. Are these books about bdsm? Not on your life! They are about murders performed by a sicko psycho.

Without consent, there is no bdsm.

 

[SpectreT]

Weighing in with the vast majority here......

Should've been marked "Non-Consent". The trappings and the window dressing don't make it a scene. The actors do. And in this case, they acted out a rape scene.

Brings to mind a question, but I think I'll go ask it in the Author's Hangout, this isn''t the place for my question.

 

[cymbidia]

I don't know what i'd do if you changed your av, T. There are somethings that change all the time round here and some things that just don't. Your av is one of the bits of permanent glue here. Change it and the tenor of the whole place changes. Besides, it's perfect for the you we've come to know so well over the last long time.

And i like your brain, too.

 

[DRxBlue]

She RIGHT, Old Bean!

It IS awfully nice to see that face again. i'm glad to be here to see it too.

These people have probably cleaned all the coffee and soda from their keyboards and monitors. We have a fresh "clean slate" to start with. Let's go get the Monster and make 'em spit!

You know... artful is gettin rather good lately... we may become the 4 Horsemen of the Guffawcalypse...or something.

i dunno, i'm outa practice, i need for something really ridiculous to happen as raw material. YOU start!

Come on back, good buddy,

 

[artful]

Re: She RIGHT, Old Bean!

You know... artful is gettin rather good lately... we may become the 4 Horsemen of the Guffawcalypse...or something.
Come on back, good buddy,

Does this mean ya saw my post with all them manicured feet spread over my body,...and Sis sitting on the saddle, while my sub was takin' notes?

 

[A Desert Rose]

4 horseman?

that is toooo funny. who are the other 2?

Rose

 

[~Dream~]

Never, hon, if a gay man rapes another man, it's still rape, even if he's gay.

I think they're just trying to say they don't want rape or nonconsent confused with BDSM.

Damn straight Sandia,I was raped before and there is No consent there at all! if my BDSM relationship EVER turns out to be non-consensual ,you bet your bottom dollar my ass is gone!!..I give myself as a gift to my Master ,it is NOT forced..Rape Is a crime,plain ,pure and simple..should ever be made fun of or taken lightly either!

 

[DRxBlue]

To A Desert Rose...

Does this mean ya saw my post with all them manicured feet spread over my body,...and Sis sitting on the saddle, while my sub was takin' notes?

Speaking of "manicured feet"! What a pretty foot you have ADR! The other is quite attractive as well... hold them closer, i can't tell which one i like best. (this little piddie...Ooops!)

Actually artful, i haven't seen the post you mention. Now i'm gonna have to use the "search button" on ya. It was the post in the "Dr in the House" thread that made me suddenly realize what a versatile clown you have become.

The world needs all the Knights of Levity it can muster or we'll NEVER defeat the "Forces of Gravity"! We'll be stuck here... helpless groundhogs forever ..afraid of our own shadows.

Well, in the case of Shadowsdream, that is a fear that might be justified. Once caught in her "field of influence" i think i might give up without a fight.

Anyway, Desert Rose, there was a time, (not long ago) when Spectre T, Monster666 and i cut a swath of destruction across the BDSM board. Poking fun at the ticklish, chuckling the unchucklable, making jokes so bad you HAD to laugh at our presumption if nothing else.

This resulted (repeatedly) in causing people who happened to be drinking something while reading the daily posts, suddenly vaporizing the contents of thir mouths and blowing this mist onto their monitors or keyboards. (No deaths were EVER confirmed)

artful has lately shown signs that his mental processes have deteriorated to the point where he no longer has any inhibitions about "making a FOOL" of himself. (in the finest sense)

So now you know!

Welcome, and stay tuned,
Doctor Blue

(OK...so i can't spell!)

 

[artful]

Re: 4 horseman?

that is toooo funny. who are the other 2?

Rose

Actually,...there are already 4, SpectreT-Monster666-DRxBlue- and PBW. I fear they have no difficulty in pulling their own Medicine wagon,...and I would only be an OLD and useless 5th wheel,...unnecessarily slowing down the mayhem they have spread throughout Lit-Dom.

They have shown themselves quite capable of doling out rich, and fluid dispersing remarks, all by themselves. I do however, take it as an HONOR that they would even consider linking me to such a grand endeavor.

Meanwhile,...carry on men,...good will and cheer be with you. I think I will just sit here in the shade and take notes as a student of Shadows, writing my memoirs and my own death sentence.

(If they need a replacement,...Lance is FAR better qualified to fill their need) *sigh*

 

[A Desert Rose]

well thank you

I get lots of compliments on my uh, feet. lol

You 2 are both very funny men. And a much need asset to this board. Just as Lance is. A little levity is always refreshing.

I would need a chg of panties if I were in the same room with the 3 of you, no 4 if PB is among you, from wetting my pants.

Nothing I like better than a great sense of humor in a person. Aside from a great ass, it's the first thing I look for.

Just keep me laughing please,
Rose

 

[A Desert Rose]

OH P.S.

Do you think Lance will like my new AV? I am hoping it makes him laugh. Do you think he will?

Rose

 

[mskittykatt]

sorry i missed this thread the first time around KM

if anyone is interested here is a thread just started on the story feedback page... i'm just starting to read it and thought other people may be interested in reading it as well - always good to encourage new authors especially when they are looking for the kind of experiance you can find in our little corner!

http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=108088

 

[RisiaSkye]

I musta missed this the first time around.

Not that it matters anymore, but if I were classifying that story I'd put it in Non-Consent too.

It blurs the line of consent a bit, and draws heavily on lots of BDSM images and practices. But, partially through bad writing (the main character is all but entirely devoid of development or believable depth so it's impossible to determine her desires), and partially because it starts as an apparent crime but turns into a pleasurable and apparently satisfying time for the victim, it's not clearly consenting in nature.

Personally, I think there's some overlap between NonConsent stories and people's BDSM tinged fantasies of absolute control or lack thereof. But, when it comes time to settle on a single category, I look for BDSM stories to be clearly consenting and reciprocally fulfilling in nature. Due to my own views and a desire to foster a clear understanding of the difference between abuse and BDSM relationships, I don't classify non-consenting, ambiguously consenting, or even fully consensual but physically or emotionally exploitive one-sided relationships as BDSM.

Consent matters. Fantasy is all well and good, but I've never understood the prevalence of slave-capture, NonConsent, and flagrantly bullshit "whip me, beat me" tales in the BDSM genre. A story can show communication, trust, emotional depth, reciprocal pleasure and clear limits and still be smart, sexy, well-written and completely erotic BDSM. Can't it?

 

[SpectreT]

See, I watch too much Pro Wrestling on TV.....

When Doc mentioned the 4 Horsemen, the first thing that came to mind was Ric Flair, Dean Malenko, Chris Benoit, and Kevin Nash back in WCW.

I have to second Risia's remarks, especially about "flagrantly bullshit" (and in some cases fragratly bullshit as well) stories marked BDSM, but needing the Non-Consent label. the ones that really bug me are the blackmail-themed ones, although coercive elements in general are good at ticking me off a little. I just remind myself that they're fantasies, and sometimes there are some really hot ideas in there that could be consentually enjoyed, and my ire vanishes, though.

That said, it amazes me what some folks can do to characters that they've created.

 

[~Dream~]

Re: Re: 4 horseman?

Actually,...there are already 4, SpectreT-Monster666-DRxBlue- and PBW. I fear they have no difficulty in pulling their own Medicine wagon,...and I would only be an OLD and useless 5th wheel,...unnecessarily slowing down the mayhem they have spread throughout Lit-Dom.

They have shown themselves quite capable of doling out rich, and fluid dispersing remarks, all by themselves. I do however, take it as an HONOR that they would even consider linking me to such a grand endeavor.

Meanwhile,...carry on men,...good will and cheer be with you. I think I will just sit here in the shade and take notes as a student of Shadows, writing my memoirs and my own death sentence.

(If they need a replacement,...Lance is FAR better qualified to fill their need) *sigh*

Master / You will NEVER BE 'OLD AND USELESS' MY LOVE
you have alot of valuable experience and wisdom and yes even (comedy) to add here ..i am taking note myself..(typing away on my keyboard lol besides the 4 horsemen dont even compare to the MASTER of Disaster hehe you could out class,outgun and outshine anyone ..in my eyes..

 

[petrel]

the story is non-consent

enjoying the physical sensations given to you is not the same as agreeing to them. (the foot scene at the end of the story)

BDSM is not about non-consent

BDSM is not the same as powerplay

there were many overtones of activites that we wodul relate to in the BDSM world, the story as a whole was one many players mgiht fantasise abotu or use in a scene - this would be BDSM but the reality - that is not BDSM it is abuse

thanks for raising the issue KM

oh and thanks to the 4 knights of the board (in slightly tarnished armour) sweeties you make my days alot brighter (and my computer alot wetter!)