BDSM play without humilliation

[sweetnpetite]

Catelina, you are certainly welcome by me. I just don't like the "non-advice" I started getting that sounded to me like insecure doms who acted like I was maybe an upity sub who needed to be put in her place. (and if that is not what was meant, then I appologize)

I get peeved about a lot here too Quint. With time perhaps you will see where I and others are coming from instead of rushing in all defensive. As for alternate relationships, I may be wrong here, but from reading your posts and living my reality I think we are far from what most, including you would consider orthodox in this or the vanilla world. I do not think as it has been insinuated that peope have to identify as 24/7 or hold to set rigid roles, there is always room for flexibility, but as in all things if you use a term such as Dominant or submissive, there is a general concensus and understanding of what that role is defined as in it's basic form. Without that how can you hope to get any answers?

People can carry on about labels all they like in the interest of appearing to be proactive about discrimination and oppression, but I daresay if you go to the markets and ask to buy a bag of carrots and get handed a pumpkin, you are not going to feel it is logical to be told by the vendor that they call their pumpkin carrots because that is what they want to do and afterall they are all vegetables about the same colour and growing in the same ground. Comes down to there being a need to define to an extent, and as people see on Lit time and again, if they want to say they are 'X' and ask questions, posters have to at least understand the basics of 'X' to answer.

As to those who do not have answers not needing or welcome to reply or post as they have nothing to offer, I disagree with your concept of what we have a forum for if it is only to be posted to by a select few who feel they have all the answers. The beauty of contributing is you learn and evolve as do others, whether you have an answer or not...is all about freedom of speech and open discussion without censorship from those who wish only to see what they want to see. Is about growth..and friendly communication.

Catalina

 

[sweetnpetite]

I just printed up a checklist from castle realm:

http://castlerealm.com/library/checklist.shtml

This should give me a good starting point. I am still interested in any ideas anyone has or would like to share. Thanks.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Catelina, you are certainly welcome by me. I just don't like the "non-advice" I started getting that sounded to me like insecure doms who acted like I was maybe an upity sub who needed to be put in her place. (and if that is not what was meant, then I appologize)

No problem Sweet.....I have found we all at some time step on another's toes no matter how hard we may try not to, or our best intentions....is just a part of being human and in a forum of diversity and open minded exchange I am sure we all find friendly more often than not. I think you are brave to be taking the positive step of trying to find what works for both of you....not everyone can do that. I am sure you will find what you want.

Catalina

 

[Ms_Kat]

Humiliation is contextual

I think one problem you may have is that what is humiliating to one may not be humiliating to the other. Personally, I find humiliation to be not in the least sexually stimulating. However, I have found out over the years that some of the things that really crank me up are considered humiliating to others. When I discuss it with my husband, he has no idea what is humiliating about it.

For example, one of the things that really turns my heater on is to hear my husband beg for me. Sometimes I have him beg to touch me, sometimes to tast me, and almost always he has to beg permission to cum. Quite often, I reach multiple orgasms when his begging is most desperate.

When this was brought up with a BDSM group I occassionally attend, the comment was made, "Begging is inherently degrading. Dogs beg. A submissive is not a dog." I pointed out that dogs also wear collars, yet this is not considered taboo in virtually any BDSM group.

My female lovers have occassionally asked me not to used words that they consider humiliating, such as "whore" or "bitch" or "slut' and often "cunt". I see this as a frame of reference problem.

A bitch is literally a female canine. In packs, the alpha bitch (head bitch sound familiar?) is deferred to by almost all the others, with the notable exception of the alpha male. The bitch is the future of the pack, and will be defended to the death. The alpha male, however, will be sacrificed in order to protect the pack. Different responsibilities, different actions.

A whore is simply a person that gets paid to make fantasies come true. Quite often, they are fantasies so private and personal that the john is unwilling to open himself (or herself) up to criticism by sharing them. A slut is a whore who enjoys herself (she still gets paid, just the tender is different).

A cunt is nothing more than a beautiful part of the female anatomy. It is basically a pussy without the beatification. Your mother has a pussy, the woman you lust after has a cunt.

Quite often, that is enough to remove the humiliation from the situation. However, if someone really objected to it, or was emotionally hurt from using them, I would find another way to express myself - although I love to talk as dirty as possible during sex.

Is begging humiliating? That depends on how it is received, I believe. One can say, "You fucking pathetic piece of shit! Listen to you beg like a fucking dog!" or one can say, "My, listen to you beg, you must really want to be inside me/taste me/touch me." It is, in my view, a neutral form of communication. How it is used is another matter.

Another favorite of mine is orgasm control and denial (can you see how this ties directly into begging?). Again, this can be done in a cruel and/or cold fashion ("You don't deserve to touch me, much less cum in my presence!") or it can be done in a warm, gentle, and loving manner (Don't cum, baby. You know if you cum that it is all over tonght and I want to make this moment last until daylight shines in your eyes.").

I hope this gives you some incredibly fulfilling and wonderful ideas.

Hugs,


Kat

 

[NemoAlia]

Re: Humiliation is contextual

(Don't cum, baby. You know if you cum that it is all over tonght and I want to make this moment last until daylight shines in your eyes

This is exactly what I wish I could have said! In charge, but not quite topping. Good idea, Ms_Kat.

Other thoughts:

1. "Darling, I printed out this BDSM checklist, but it just seems so impersonal. Would you please write your own version of a checklist for us both to fill out?" I mean, just reading what he thinks of putting on the paper could be informative, regardless of how he rates it.

2. Present him with a very short list of choices. Like, "All right, I'm going to make your skin crawl. Would you rather I use this this feather, these fingernails, or the air conditioner?" That way he has enough control to satisfy his non-humiliation requirements, and you're still basically calling the shots. (Flogger, vampire glove, or candle wax... whatever...)

3. Set a list of requirements that he has to meet before he can top you for the rest of the evening. (In other circumstances this might be seen as topping from the bottom, but if switching is your agreed-upon goal, then I see no reason why this should be a problem.)

 

[XanoPhil]

seems that sometimes you wnat to tie or be tied up or so some wax or cloths pins but you done want all the sir this sir that shit. just the pain game not the dramatic

 

[Impish]

Re: Re: BDSM play without humilliation

Someone tell me how this works.... "a sub who is really a switch" and a Dom who is allowing her to turn "the tables."

I don't get it.

Then why post? To be rude? Must one "get" everything?

 

[catalina_francisco]

Re: Re: Re: BDSM play without humilliation

Then why post? To be rude? Must one "get" everything?

One hopes to eventually reach a point where understanding is increased, yes. Without asking questions one learns little or nothing and becomes a vaccuum in an otherwise functioning world. It is a recipe for a very boring existence and a very narrow minded view of the world. I have a friend who once said to me years ago that 'the minute you stop asking questions is the moment your life is over', meaning you limit your experience of the world to your preconceived notions which may have nothing to do with reality at all. IMHO it is a valuable part of communication and learning to ask questions no matter how stupid, unnecessary, or disconnected they may at first seem.


Catalina

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Re: huh?

Why so rude?

Blah, blah? Blah blah blah, blah blah blah.

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah; blah blah blah/blah blah blah!!!!!

Blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah, *BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH*


Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah?

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

If anything I have said offends someones sensabilites about what BDSM is (or isn't) I am sorry, but this is about what works in my relationship and not anybody elses. For all those willing to help in what may be seen as an unconventional situation, a million thanks. I also would like to add, that I do not come to this board as a sub, but as a woman who enjoys being submissive with her man at certain times (and goodness knows, not always!)

Blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah-blah blah blah, blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah...



Blah blah blah?

 

[sweetnpetite]

Re: Re: huh?

Blah, blah? Blah blah blah, blah blah blah.

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah; blah blah blah/blah blah blah!!!!!

Blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah, *BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH*


Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah?

Don't make me start hating you again Johnny Mayberry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Re: Re: Re: huh?

Don't make me start hating you again Johnny Mayberry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blah, blah?

 

[sweetnpetite]

That's it!

Blah, blah?

Now you've gone and done it!!!!!!!!

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Blah...

 

[sweetnpetite]

I see a little boy who needs a spanking!!!!

 

[sweetnpetite]

I need to go get some sleep now.









Goodnight all.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Re: Re: Humiliation is contextual

Thank you. And Ms_Kat too, for some grrrrreat ideas

This is exactly what I wish I could have said! In charge, but not quite topping. Good idea, Ms_Kat.

Other thoughts:

1. "Darling, I printed out this BDSM checklist, but it just seems so impersonal. Would you please write your own version of a checklist for us both to fill out?" I mean, just reading what he thinks of putting on the paper could be informative, regardless of how he rates it.

2. Present him with a very short list of choices. Like, "All right, I'm going to make your skin crawl. Would you rather I use this this feather, these fingernails, or the air conditioner?" That way he has enough control to satisfy his non-humiliation requirements, and you're still basically calling the shots. (Flogger, vampire glove, or candle wax... whatever...)

3. Set a list of requirements that he has to meet before he can top you for the rest of the evening. (In other circumstances this might be seen as topping from the bottom, but if switching is your agreed-upon goal, then I see no reason why this should be a problem.)

 

[Netzach]

Hm. There's asking a question because you want an answer and you are naturally curious and then there's asking a question kinda derisively because you want to point out how truly stupid the thing you are questioning is.

I'm with Quint.

Netzach the-so-this-must-be-vanilla-funny-my-ex-doesn't-think-I-am Sadist.

 

[PinkOrchid]

Re: Re: Re: huh?

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Re: Re: Re: Re: huh?

Don't mind him. He probably just needs more BEER.

Blah blah blah...BLAH!!

 

[esclave_PP]

what is it with the BEER thing anyway lol.... curious minds want to know...

 

[sweetnpetite]

bla, bla, bla BEER bla bla bla bla bla

 

[s'lara]

sweet, just popping in to say i hope you found some interesting ideas on how to play without humiliation.

Enjoy the experimentation. As some have said, without inquiry (even inquiry of the self) how does one find out what role they like to inhabit, whether that be a single role or many? Bottom line, if You find pleasure in what you do, disregard those already comfortable in their roles and concentrate on what suits you.

Cheers,

lara

 

[Ms_Kat]

The unexamined life is not worth living. - Socrates

What the HELL is that? - Steve Martin