Beeing Pushed To Far!

[His_pet_slut]

You know...it's pretty easy to sit back and say, "Well, just say no, you stupid girl," when you haven't walked in her shoes. For some people, it's hard to say no, regardless of whether they're in a D/s relationship or not.

It's hard for me. It's hard as hell for me. Sometimes, I'm still not able to do it, which is why I'm not in a relationship or even looking for one right now. For some people, it's just natural to sacrifice themselves for others, even to the point of it being unhealthy for them.

Now, some of these folks can make peace with this part of themselves. OSG comes to mind as one of these people. Then, some of them (me, for example), realize that if they continue on down this path, they'll remain unhappy and angry and bitter for the rest of their lives. I feel like the OP is probably in the latter category, but she's not really sure what to do next.

But I can tell you that the condescending "Oh, well, you're choosing to act this way," comments are not helping her. She can certainly be empowered to change (and it seems like she wants to), but the self-righteous attitude that some people here are taking toward her are definitely not empowering her.

/rant

The thing is, if you read some of her follow up posts, she states she is not like this in all aspects of her day to day life. If she is capable of standing up for herself in those situations, then yes. Yes she is capable of standing up for herself here to and if she is not, sorry, but she does not need to be online and dabbling in this.

If you can say no to someone asking you to give them a handout on the street, do their job for them or something like that, then why the hell would you not be able to say no to some wannabe online Dom that is not respecting your limits? There must be some disconnect I'm not seeing, because to me it would be far more difficult to say no face to face than via an email or text.

BTW, I am not trying to be condescending and I truly meant what I said on her needing to give therapy another try. It is not one size fit all and perhaps the first therapist was not a good fit.

 

[BiBunny]

The thing is, if you read some of her follow up posts, she states she is not like this in all aspects of her day to day life. If she is capable of standing up for herself in those situations, then yes. Yes she is capable of standing up for herself here to and if she is not, sorry, but she does not need to be online and dabbling in this.

If you can say no to someone asking you to give them a handout on the street, do their job for them or something like that, then why the hell would you not be able to say no to some wannabe online Dom that is not respecting your limits? There must be some disconnect I'm not seeing, because to me it would be far more difficult to say no face to face than via an email or text.

You know how some people say that they're not submissive to everyone, but only certain people? It's along those same lines, I'm sure.

I've made my thoughts on online stuff clear before...and they aren't favorable ones. However, I will say that it's probably better that she can't say no to her online "dom" than some guy in real life. I agree that she should take some time to work on herself before jumping into yet another fucked up relationship (that's what I'm doing, in fact), but if she can't stop herself, well, let's just say that it could be a hell of a lot worse.

Disclaimer: I am not condoning it.

BTW, I am not trying to be condescending and I truly meant what I said on her needing to give therapy another try. It is not one size fit all and perhaps the first therapist was not a good fit.

I'm meh about therapy personally because it has never worked for me, but I think that telling someone to give it a try is still far more useful than some of the other smug things I've seen in this thread.

Perhaps I'm overly sensitive to this sort of thing, given how I personally have struggled my whole life with so many different aspects of having an overly passive and self-sacrificing personality. I just know how completely obnoxious and unhelpful the "you have a choice" bullshit is when you're genuinely struggling with an aspect of yourself that you dislike, particularly one that causes you a lot of grief in your life.

 

[intothewoods]

Well, a couple of things -- it is easy for someone else to say "you have a choice" but that doesn't necessarily mean it isn't true. I think it is important to face your fears, and by that I don't mean that you necessarily do one thing or anothe, but that you really gain an understanding of what makes you tick and what you need in life.

As for therapy, I admit it's a bit of a red flag for me if someone rejects the idea of therapy based on one bad experience or even several. It's tough to find a therapist that you're compatible with (and, admittedly, much easier in a big urban area like the one I live in), but I think work with a good therapist can be a huge positive change in your life.

 

[seela]

Where I live therapy isn't the go-to answer to everything. And the culture and values aren't that different in Norway than they are here, at least not based on what I've experienced during my frequent visits to Norway. So it might be that therapy isn't really considered necessary unless there's some really serious thing going on.

Personally I know two people, who have ever been in any sort of therapy. Of course it might be that my friends and other people close to me just don't talk about it and my view about the popularity of therapy is skewed, but I really don't think that's the case. The other friend of mine that has been in therapy was raped and she worked through that in therapy, the other one has been severly depressed pretty much from cradle and he probably will continue the regular chats with a therapist for the rest of his life.

Just thought it might be worthwhile add this in, because most of you who have posted in this thread are from the States. The culture is very different. From here it looks like pretty much everyone in the States has a therapist and I've always wondered about that.

 

[KoPilot]

Perhaps I'm overly sensitive to this sort of thing, given how I personally have struggled my whole life with so many different aspects of having an overly passive and self-sacrificing personality. I just know how completely obnoxious and unhelpful the "you have a choice" bullshit is when you're genuinely struggling with an aspect of yourself that you dislike, particularly one that causes you a lot of grief in your life.

Actually, being told shit like that straight up is probably some of the best advice I've gotten when it comes to standing up for myself. Being coddled didn't get me anywhere and complaining was little more than temporary catharsis. Because when it comes right down to it, being told "you have a choice" is saying "you have the power and the right to do what's good for you". Anything else is belittling. Dunno. YMMV.

 

[Keroin]

Just thought it might be worthwhile add this in, because most of you who have posted in this thread are from the States. The culture is very different. From here it looks like pretty much everyone in the States has a therapist and I've always wondered about that.

Agreed. I think the "therapy thing" is very much American. That said, it's not necessarily bad - if you find the right person for you.

For cases of abuse or serious mental illness, I think therapy is a must. For other matters, some people may be able to figure stuff out on their own, some won't or can't. And unfortunately in N. American society we've developed a culture where it's difficult to find the kind of social support and mentorship that exists elsewhere, in other cultures.

I went to marriage counselling at the urging of my then-husband. It didn't save our marriage, obviously, but having a non-biased person listen to what I had to say and offer no-nonsense feedback was actually amazingly helpful. I attended three sessions, with one that was just me and the therapist, and one Al-anon meeting. Four+ hours that changed my life, for the better.

Just my two cents.

Actually, being told shit like that straight up is probably some of the best advice I've gotten when it comes to standing up for myself. Being coddled didn't get me anywhere and complaining was little more than temporary catharsis. Because when it comes right down to it, being told "you have a choice" is saying "you have the power and the right to do what's good for you". Anything else is belittling. Dunno. YMMV.

I was the same. It took a swift kick to the butt to wake me up. And I was angry about said kick at the time...but oh so thankful for it now. That's why I tend to be more Ass Kicker and less Supportive Encourager.

Which sometimes does not work. At all. Blerg.

I find men, as a rule, handle the direct no-coddling approach much better than women do. Women tend to get hurt and resentful and sometimes end up worse than before.

Humans are tricky critters.

/side ramble

 

[eastern sun]

What about "sub-frenzy"? It sounds to me like you are experiencing a very common phenomenon in which the sexual excitement and release of repressed energy causes someone to escalate things in ways that are not always in his/her best interest.

There's invariably a moment when you come back down to earth and think "what the hell have I been doing!?"

 

[Curious_in_Cali]

Humans are tricky critters.

Agreed!

 

[Keroin]

Agreed!

Ha.

I like you (at least the 'you' as expressed on Lit). And not just because you agree with me either.

/another side ramble - sorry OP!

 

[BiBunny]

Actually, being told shit like that straight up is probably some of the best advice I've gotten when it comes to standing up for myself. Being coddled didn't get me anywhere and complaining was little more than temporary catharsis. Because when it comes right down to it, being told "you have a choice" is saying "you have the power and the right to do what's good for you". Anything else is belittling. Dunno. YMMV.

The usefulness of the advice is inversely proportional to the amount of smugness it's delivered with. We've all got our own demons to slay, and I think we forget that sometimes.

 

[Stella_Omega]

The usefulness of the advice is inversely proportional to the amount of smugness it's delivered with. We've all got our own demons to slay, and I think we forget that sometimes.

That's true, and sometimes it's hard to figure out how to word advice without seeming smug.

On the other hand when people are trying to be smug-- you can tell real easy.

 

[KoPilot]

The usefulness of the advice is inversely proportional to the amount of smugness it's delivered with. We've all got our own demons to slay, and I think we forget that sometimes.

I think everyone's threshold for their smug-dar is probably different too. You weren't helped by similar advice, so you're more sensitive to how it's delivered. I didn't have a bad experience because of it, so I'm not. Honestly, I thought the advice was more plainly useful than patronizing. But like I said, YMMV.

 

[the captians wench]

You know...it's pretty easy to sit back and say, "Well, just say no, you stupid girl," when you haven't walked in her shoes. For some people, it's hard to say no, regardless of whether they're in a D/s relationship or not.

It's hard for me. It's hard as hell for me. Sometimes, I'm still not able to do it, which is why I'm not in a relationship or even looking for one right now. For some people, it's just natural to sacrifice themselves for others, even to the point of it being unhealthy for them.

Now, some of these folks can make peace with this part of themselves. OSG comes to mind as one of these people. Then, some of them (me, for example), realize that if they continue on down this path, they'll remain unhappy and angry and bitter for the rest of their lives. I feel like the OP is probably in the latter category, but she's not really sure what to do next.

But I can tell you that the condescending "Oh, well, you're choosing to act this way," comments are not helping her. She can certainly be empowered to change (and it seems like she wants to), but the self-righteous attitude that some people here are taking toward her are definitely not empowering her.

/rant

I've also struggled with this at least all of my adult life. It's caused me a lot of pain, a lot of long hours at work, and all around misserableness.

Actually, being told shit like that straight up is probably some of the best advice I've gotten when it comes to standing up for myself. Being coddled didn't get me anywhere and complaining was little more than temporary catharsis. Because when it comes right down to it, being told "you have a choice" is saying "you have the power and the right to do what's good for you". Anything else is belittling. Dunno. YMMV.

And this is what helped me too. The people who I knew loved and cared about me telling me "wenchie, only you can tell them no. You have to speak up for yourself" Hell it has been in my developement plan at work for years now. Now they're having fits because I won't bend over and take their shit with out saying how much I think it's bull shit.

I still struggle. One of my friends likes to make me choose where we eat because he likes to watch me squirm as I try to pick a place every one will like.

 

[Dream59]

But I can tell you that the condescending "Oh, well, you're choosing to act this way," comments are not helping her. She can certainly be empowered to change (and it seems like she wants to), but the self-righteous attitude that some people here are taking toward her are definitely not empowering her.

/rant

If I took this comment the wrong way, I apologize.

 

[Shyandlusty]

You know...it's pretty easy to sit back and say, "Well, just say no, you stupid girl," when you haven't walked in her shoes. For some people, it's hard to say no, regardless of whether they're in a D/s relationship or not.

It's hard for me. It's hard as hell for me. Sometimes, I'm still not able to do it, which is why I'm not in a relationship or even looking for one right now. For some people, it's just natural to sacrifice themselves for others, even to the point of it being unhealthy for them.

Now, some of these folks can make peace with this part of themselves. OSG comes to mind as one of these people. Then, some of them (me, for example), realize that if they continue on down this path, they'll remain unhappy and angry and bitter for the rest of their lives. I feel like the OP is probably in the latter category, but she's not really sure what to do next.

But I can tell you that the condescending "Oh, well, you're choosing to act this way," comments are not helping her. She can certainly be empowered to change (and it seems like she wants to), but the self-righteous attitude that some people here are taking toward her are definitely not empowering her.

/rant

Thank you!
I'm glad there is someone here that can understand.
Have taken a step back, and beeing a lot more carefull.

 

[CutieMouse]

But see, the sometimes the seen-as-smug "you're choosing to say no, you silly girl" stuff is coming from people who have BTDT. Yes, OSG breaks every mold I've ever seen on this sort of subject, and she's the only person I've ever "known" [online] who actually appears to thrive best in an environment where there is no pressure to say "no". (Thank God she has the Master she has and they are such a good fit for one another.)

Ultimately, ya gotta find some sort of boundaries in order to survive. I don't discuss it much, but at my core, for whatever reason, my "lizard-brain" believes I exist to be used for men's pleasure. I still frequently suck ass at standing up for myself "in the moment". I had to figure out a safe way to deal with that, or else there would be a risk of ending up in some potentially bad situations (and for the first few years, I did end up in a lot of bad situations). For me that means I don't kiss casually (I always end up in bed with men I kiss, even if I don't intend to). It means I'm only intimate with men who have shown themselves to be loyal friends (because I depend on the friendship as a degree of protection). It means I don't discuss my proclivities with strangers (because it's to easy to take advantage once you know them). It means I have to be selective as fuck (or at least try to be), and be willing to deal with being single, rather than enter into something that ultimately won't fulfill me.

I made a lot of mistakes over several years before I figured all that crap out. So my blanket advice in these sorts of situations has become "know thyself, figure out your triggers, and learn how to keep them in check when necessary."

 

[Curious_in_Cali]

I think that at times of vulnerability that we can mistake the need for reassurance/support with needing a fresh opinion/guidance. I think it is the people that know us best that can sense the difference the easiest, particularly when we are at our messiest... but ultimately it is our responsibility to communicate our needs and pursue the means to meet them.

I also think it can be difficult to not absorb differing opinions as judgement when we are vulnerable as well because who likes to be wrong on top of already struggling with whatever the current strain is.... but asking a question in a public forum like this means accepting a broad spectrum of opinions and responses...as tough asome of them might be to read...they will all offer something. Even if it just anchors you more deeply in your own beliefs.

I think for me I had to learn to ready myself BEFORE I asked...make sure I was actually in a place where I could listen openly for the response. I had to relearn a few times that if you ask for an honest opinion, you better be able to handle getting one. I of course also temper that with the thought that opinions are like assholes, everyone has one (and some really stink). I have learned some amazing things from the most unexpected and stinkiest of places.

I have learned far more in the adveristies that I have faced than in the easy places in my life... but being open to the lessons that can feel biting takes some serious practice for those of us with thinner skin.

Getting to know yourself, Really...truly...honestly know yourself is the foundation to a peaceful life...because otherwise it is just living as a fictional charachter and acting is work that just gets tiring. Who you really are is a far more rich and interesting story because you are the only one that can tell it.

 

[NYTimesBest]

advice

Let me paraphrase:

Met a really great guy here and we started chattin..He doesn't respect my boundries. He makes me do things that humiliates me in my real life. I just got out of an abusive relationship and scared of it happening again.
.

Here is my blunt advice, make of it what you choose:
First off, If he's that great he'd respect your boundaries, period. Fear isn't something that should play into any healthy relationship. Next, he can't "make" you do anything that humiliates you in real life unless you allow him to. Lastly, you're already in an abusive relationship. If you're not aware of that by now you should wake up to that fact for your own sake. The only other thing I would say is until you are able to have enough self respect and confidence in yourself that other people are going to keep trying to push you around.

Maybe you need to find out what makes you happy before you jump into a relationship and if possible and necessary, get professional help, probably most people on here aren't psychiatrists/doctors, etc and may give some very poor advice so be careful who you listen to.
Best of luck

 

[WhipLuvr]

My advice would be if its specific things he's doing wrong rather than just general annoyingness, when you havent spoken to him in a while sit down and write all the things you want to do, all the things youre okay with doing and all the things you will not do. Then whenever he oversteps those boundaries you can use that list for support in saying no.

I'd also like to hear why the OP feels she cannot say no. Is it cultural? does she fear losing this guy? Does he hold some form of emotional sway over her? I dont intend this to be harsh. Maybe getting to the bottom of her inability to refuse will help her discover that its OK to refuse.

 

[sdnt]

Not really gonna say much, since a lot has already been said. I know I'm young, I've only started delving into the lifestyle for the recent month or two, and I've no real experience. But a relationship is a two person thing. If it all depended on him, that's not even ownership. It seems more like a denial of your own well being. Maybe the Dom you have isn't the right kind of Dom you need, if you even need a Dom now in your life.

Abuse can be used in many ways to control or deny. I have no idea what goes through your head when you think of him, but I do know that no person should have to deal with unhappiness when they have the choice to get the fuck out. Pardon my cursing, I'm not angry. I'm just sad that you've gone through an abusive relationship already and you don't want to break the pattern.

 

[Noor]

OKay, its easy to fall into the trap of "I just can't say no," its kind a kitchen sink type of thing, you need to parse this out and look at each aspect.

A few questions that I would ask myself and in fact have recently:

1) Does he know how you feel?
2) Have you been clear and reminded him of your boundaries?
3) do you feel this while he is around or only afterwards?
4) what makes this guy and your interactions great?
5) if you resolved the boundary issue, would you want to continue?

I suggest you make yourself a list and really think about what exactly it is that is bothering you and whether he really understands it.
During sex, and within play, people can get caught up in it and forget or not understand the implications of what they are doing, especially if you do not let them know.

 

[Felix_Jones]

I honestly thought that this thread was titled "Being Pushed To Fart".
Who needs pushing?

 

[ataxia.girl]

But see, the sometimes the seen-as-smug "you're choosing to say no, you silly girl" stuff is coming from people who have BTDT. Yes, OSG breaks every mold I've ever seen on this sort of subject, and she's the only person I've ever "known" [online] who actually appears to thrive best in an environment where there is no pressure to say "no". (Thank God she has the Master she has and they are such a good fit for one another.)

Ultimately, ya gotta find some sort of boundaries in order to survive. I don't discuss it much, but at my core, for whatever reason, my "lizard-brain" believes I exist to be used for men's pleasure. I still frequently suck ass at standing up for myself "in the moment". I had to figure out a safe way to deal with that, or else there would be a risk of ending up in some potentially bad situations (and for the first few years, I did end up in a lot of bad situations). For me that means I don't kiss casually (I always end up in bed with men I kiss, even if I don't intend to). It means I'm only intimate with men who have shown themselves to be loyal friends (because I depend on the friendship as a degree of protection). It means I don't discuss my proclivities with strangers (because it's to easy to take advantage once you know them). It means I have to be selective as fuck (or at least try to be), and be willing to deal with being single, rather than enter into something that ultimately won't fulfill me.

I made a lot of mistakes over several years before I figured all that crap out. So my blanket advice in these sorts of situations has become "know thyself, figure out your triggers, and learn how to keep them in check when necessary."

Yeah pretty much. This is a lot of why i don't get into discussions with men i might want to meet about what my "limits" are. i sniff out right away if a guy is a limit-pushing type Dom and steer clear. i find out what they like and what they're about and go from there. Usually if it involves a lot of props and instruments i know to run like the wind. If they are the kind of guy i'll mesh with they will know how to get what they want from me. No checklist will be needed.

It took me a long time to figure out that i get to get something out of this whole thing too. Its all about him but its also about me... sorta kinda... Its about me in that i'm only gonna date the kinda guy i want to own me. i already know i can please a lot of different types of Doms. The trick was figuring out not very many Daddy\Masters types could fulfill me and i actually matter in this whole equation.

 

[YourCaptor]

Yeah pretty much. This is a lot of why i don't get into discussions with men i might want to meet about what my "limits" are. i sniff out right away if a guy is a limit-pushing type Dom and steer clear. i find out what they like and what they're about and go from there. Usually if it involves a lot of props and instruments i know to run like the wind. If they are the kind of guy i'll mesh with they will know how to get what they want from me. No checklist will be needed.

It took me a long time to figure out that i get to get something out of this whole thing too. Its all about him but its also about me... sorta kinda... Its about me in that i'm only gonna date the kinda guy i want to own me. i already know i can please a lot of different types of Doms. The trick was figuring out not very many Daddy\Masters types could fulfill me and i actually matter in this whole equation.

Wow!! Ataxiababe, you're back!

 

[ataxia.girl]

Wow!! Ataxiababe, you're back!

Heeee

Maybe...

We'll see