Being a woman in geek culture

[Recidiva]

Thought of you guys yesterday.

This is Miss Universe's costume for being "Miss America." A transformer.

I know women doing cosplay is a sore subject and for good reason. But I do believe this could genuinely be a non-geek lady trying too hard.

http://t3.***********/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRYkaxsyk9rncGYwefvwnv8ERVb6zDuT2JVSZ5HJOFpPOBY5pc6UQ

 

[Loverskitten]

About ten of my friends posted and praised this
http://www.upworthy.com/if-3-little...ng-i-could-to-get-them-full-rides-to-stanford

While the concept is good, why they picked one of the most misogynisic songs is beyond me? I hate that song, even if they changed the words, really? That song?

Also, when I was young we played in the dirt with tonkas and hot wheels (there's probably a pants load of rare redlines buried in my parents yard) we played with train sets, Legos, Lincoln Logs, etc. Do parents really deny girls these things?

 

[KoPilot]

About ten of my friends posted and praised this
http://www.upworthy.com/if-3-little...ng-i-could-to-get-them-full-rides-to-stanford

While the concept is good, why they picked one of the most misogynisic songs is beyond me? I hate that song, even if they changed the words, really? That song?

Also, when I was young we played in the dirt with tonkas and hot wheels (there's probably a pants load of rare redlines buried in my parents yard) we played with train sets, Legos, Lincoln Logs, etc. Do parents really deny girls these things?

The toy situation for girls is a lot more lax than for boys, that's for sure. I played with all sorts of stuff like Legos and electronics kits as a kid, but for me there came an age where I could say that the support for my tinkering and exploration dropped off, and as a teenager it was assumed that my priorities would shift to the social and romantic. That assumption sometimes wound up turning into adults trying to force me to be more into those things without knowing that's what they were doing.

I know at family gatherings and things I've noticed that it's more inappropriate for me to be off doing something solitary than one of the guys. I'm expected to be cordial and more social.

 

[Loverskitten]

precisely why they picked that song. Because you hear it and it occurs to you that the situation they're trying to change really is just as misogynistic as the original song that they've changed. It drives their message home twice.

No, it just infuriates. Growing up hearing that song on the radio, I can't help but hear the real lyrics in my head. Why give it more play/money anyway? Surely there are loads of inspiring songs out there.

 

[Netzach]

The rube goldberg thing is cool, but why is it an aqua and pink tinkertoy sold by a disney princess standby audition? THAT is my beef with it. Instead of like , it's OK to get grimy and gross, it's like, look let's make engineering more pink and sanitized!

It's still pink and they have the balls to say "we don't just want pink."

Maybe the option of something not being hello kitty ish being OFF the table completely is the problem? This toy looks like an option only for Whole Foods cultist moms who are all sloth>tinkerbell and satisfied VERY easily.

I think art is actually a decent portal into tech and science. Your brain is introduced into solving problems, space and measurement, and you normalize putting on a smock and getting dirty and working without the constraints of a limited kit.

Much later, it becomes apparent that only your department and only the science department, actually demand that you produce anything to graduate.

 

[CutieMouse]

I took the oldest daughter to a double feature of Hunger Games & Catching Fire last night. One of the ads before the feature was for Nerf -

Nerf ReBelle

We both threw up a little in our mouths...

 

[Netzach]

Dear God, those darts. LOL.

 

[Recidiva]

precisely why they picked that song. Because you hear it and it occurs to you that the situation they're trying to change really is just as misogynistic as the original song that they've changed. It drives their message home twice.

It'd be nice if they had something new that wasn't referring to something old.

To a certain extent I agree that this is an admirable idea, but the execution is using symbols that themselves are distasteful.

Also, it's kinda saying that girls who do like pink and girly are somehow wrong. Little boys who want pink and girly are not wrong either.

There's no need to make other things wrong to make room for what's right for you. Just be you. Don't remake someone else's music, don't repackage something as positive if it's derivative.

 

[Recidiva]

I took the oldest daughter to a double feature of Hunger Games & Catching Fire last night. One of the ads before the feature was for Nerf -

Nerf ReBelle

We both threw up a little in our mouths...

My daughter loves that series and we're ALL going to go see it tomorrow when she comes home to visit for Thanksgiving.

But we have an actual longbow and a target range in the back yard...so...

Sorry ReBelle.

 

[KoPilot]

I took the oldest daughter to a double feature of Hunger Games & Catching Fire last night. One of the ads before the feature was for Nerf -

Nerf ReBelle

We both threw up a little in our mouths...

Those are totally rad. If I still did NERF, I'd so get me a pair of those little ones. Granted I'm not much for the patterns, but I'd pick up a pink and white one any day. (Though I'd be happiest with a Hello Kitty NERF gun...)

I really like the shapes of these, too. All of the "boy's" stuff is hard-edged and greebly-- these would be fantastic for kitbashing slicker-looking prop guns.

 

[BiBunny]

Also, when I was young we played in the dirt with tonkas and hot wheels (there's probably a pants load of rare redlines buried in my parents yard) we played with train sets, Legos, Lincoln Logs, etc. Do parents really deny girls these things?

Yeah, see, I don't get that, either. I got softball gloves, baseball cards, riding boots, and all kinds of shit up through high school. Sure, I had girly stuff, too, but my parents wanted me to have what I wanted and would play with/use more than what someone else thought I should want.

Hell, Daddy got me a BB pistol last year for Christmas because I'd mentioned that I wanted one.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Those are totally rad. If I still did NERF, I'd so get me a pair of those little ones. Granted I'm not much for the patterns, but I'd pick up a pink and white one any day. (Though I'd be happiest with a Hello Kitty NERF gun...)

I really like the shapes of these, too. All of the "boy's" stuff is hard-edged and greebly-- these would be fantastic for kitbashing slicker-looking prop guns.

Aww, you said "Greeble..."

Ah, that takes me back, that does!

 

[Dyslexicea]

I'm not a part of geek culture, I really have nothing to add to the original post but since ya'll have wandered in the world of toys and gender roles I thought I'd add something.

First an excerpt from "The Man-Made World; or, Our Androcentric Culture" by Charlotte Perkins Gilman, published in 1911.

Take that universal joy the doll, or puppet, as an instance. A small imitation of a large known object carries delight to the heart of a child of either sex. The worsted cat, the wooden horse,
the little wagon, the tin soldier, the wax doll, the toy village, the "Noah's Ark," the omnipresent "Teddy Bear," any and every small model of a real thing is a delight to the young human being. Of all things the puppet is the most intimate, the little image of another human being to play with. The fancy of the child, making endless combinations with these visible types, plays as freely as a kitten in the leaves; or gravely carries out some observed forms of life, as the kitten imitates its mother's hunting.

So far all is natural and human.

Now see our attitude toward child's play—under a masculine culture. Regarding women only as a sex, and that sex as manifest from infancy, we make and buy for our little girls toys suitable to
this view. Being females—which means mothers, we must needs provide them with babies before they cease to be babies themselves; and we expect their play to consist in an imitation of maternal cares. The doll, the puppet, which interests all children, we have rendered as
an eternal baby; and we foist them upon our girl children by ceaseless millions.

The doll, as such, is dear to the little boy as well as the girl, but not as a baby. He likes his jumping-jack, his worsted Sambo, often a genuine rag-doll; but he is discouraged and ridiculed in this. We do not expect the little boy to manifest a father's love and care for an imitation child—but we do expect the little girl to show maternal feelings for her imitation baby. It
has not yet occurred to us that this is monstrous. Little children should not be expected to show, in painful precocity, feelings which ought never to be experienced till they come at the proper age. Our kittens play at cat-sports, little Tom and Tabby together; but little Tabby does not play she is a mother!

Beyond the continuous dolls and their continuous dressing, we provide for our little girls tea sets and kitchen sets, doll's houses, little work-boxes—the imitation tools of their narrow
trades. For the boy there is a larger choice. We make for them not only the essentially masculine toys of combat—all the enginery of mimic war; but also the models of human things, like boats, railroads, wagons. For them, too, are the comprehensive toys of the centuries, the kite, the top, the ball. As the boy gets old enough to play the games that require skill, he enters the world-lists, and the little sister, left inside, with her everlasting dolls, learns that she is "only a girl," and "mustn't play with boys—boys are so rough!" She has her doll and her tea set. She "plays house." If very active she may jump rope, in solitary enthusiasm, or in combination of from two to four. Her brother is playing games. From this time on he plays the games.

I'll leave it up to ya'll to decide how much things have changed in one hundred and two years, in my opinion not nearly enough, not even close. At least we do have our right to play sports, although I wish we didn't have the right, desire is a better word, to practice or learn war, girls, boys, women or men. I do believe in our right to be soldiers, I just wish no one believed in the need for same.

I leave you with this, Hey, Toys 'R' Us, Stop Thrusting Gender Roles on My Kids! It's an article from the Huffpost Gay Voices, the only part that has to do with gay/lesbian is the first three paragraphs, if that bothers you don't read them, the rest is about the gender essentialism which is forced upon children, parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles and whoever by toy companies and companies like Toys 'R' Us which sell toys, along with all the marketing aimed at our children, mostly television advertizing, one of the many reasons our three year old daughters aren't allowed to watch television.

 

[Netzach]

I'm not a part of geek culture, I really have nothing to add to the original post but since ya'll have wandered in the world of toys and gender roles I thought I'd add something.

First an excerpt from "The Man-Made World; or, Our Androcentric Culture" by Charlotte Perkins Gilman, published in 1911.



I'll leave it up to ya'll to decide how much things have changed in one hundred and two years, in my opinion not nearly enough, not even close. At least we do have our right to play sports, although I wish we didn't have the right, desire is a better word, to practice or learn war, girls, boys, women or men. I do believe in our right to be soldiers, I just wish no one believed in the need for same.

I leave you with this, Hey, Toys 'R' Us, Stop Thrusting Gender Roles on My Kids! It's an article from the Huffpost Gay Voices, the only part that has to do with gay/lesbian is the first three paragraphs, if that bothers you don't read them, the rest is about the gender essentialism which is forced upon children, parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles and whoever by toy companies and companies like Toys 'R' Us which sell toys, along with all the marketing aimed at our children, mostly television advertizing, one of the many reasons our three year old daughters aren't allowed to watch television.

It's gotten worse. Worse in 35 years worse. I don't remember as much dialogue, but I don't remember my toys being as completely messed up. Sure, you had your Strawberry Shortcake and your MLP v 1.0 but these were OPTIONS in a vast sea of options.

The uniformity of that aisle, is creeptastic.

I noticed a tea set (gendered, but you could play Ratatouille type resto with one just as well) in a drugstore toy aisle that didn't have a pink or corporate motif, something I could actually recognize as an item that MIGHT HAVE come from my toys about 30 years ago, and I almost lost my mind. I don't even have kids, I'm just going to have to co-exist with all y'alls generations, so it matters.

To combat this crap, a parent has to be really vigilant, and frankly that kind of TIME for vigilance is a privilege a lot of people can't afford.

Toys are definitely part of a geekery dialogue. (I'm a peripheral geek at most, but have more commonality than I thought)

Every time I see pink crap though, I am always comforted to think first and foremost of He-man. THAT was some high camp pastel universe!

 

[Loverskitten]

These reviews are brilliant!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004F9QBE6?vs=1

 

[satindesire]

http://changefromwithin.org/2013/11/21/please-be-that-guy-7-men-who-are-transforming-masculinity/

My friend also PMed me this link and it's a good one, it talks about women's experiences of sexual harassment in the comic industry.

http://comicsalliance.com/sexual-harassment-women-in-comics/

 

[yandere]

If men start to ask me too many questions about my hobbies it turns me off, mainly due to harassment or constantly being quizzed to see if I'm a "real" fan. If someone does this, I tell them to fuck off and don't waste my time with them again.

Any men I've dated or am dating in my life usually don't share my hobbies.

However, sometimes it is fun to play games online with my brother and go on voice chat to embarrass weirdos. I used to go on mic when he'd play Xbox online and trash talk all the people he was playing against (he's way better at competitive games than I am).

I feel sad I basically have to hide a part of myself, but it's so much easier that way!

 

[KoPilot]

Where the "girls don't play video games" myth came from:

http://www.polygon.com/features/2013/12/2/5143856/no-girls-allowed

 

[YourCaptor]

Exactly how common are women in all of this?

My geek thing these days is video games, if that is still geeky.

When I play L4D2 online, I would guess 1 out of 100 players is a woman/girl. Maybe 1 in 50 on co-op, interesting.

In KSP I suspect numbers may be closer, maybe 1 in 20. Out of the streamers (like 6 I think) 1 is a woman.

So it could be expected that someone who spends all there time with these activities would covet the occasional woman.

In a way I think movies are even worse. Even in L4D2 a zombie first person shooter, the female characters are equally as flat as the males.

While in movies, I've got this thing where I pay attention to the female characters to see if
1. a woman has lines
2. the lines are not about a man
Few movies contain both.

 

[KoPilot]

Confirmation bias much?

How do you know for a fact that you're playing with guys 90+% of the time without hearing or seeing them? Many female gamers actually go out of their way to hide the fact that they're female because it makes them a magnet for harassment.

And then there's the fact that online multiplayer games are only one part of the gaming industry as a whole. Lots of female gamers just avoid xbox live altogether.

 

[Primalex]

Confirmation bias much?

*yawns*

Yeah, you can totally see how girls consider Zombies to be the next Justin Bieber.

 

[Netzach]

I did play some FPS's but I don't have time for clans and vent and making a shooter into my social life, Jesus. It was more that than any rude boys which turned me off the whole process - the kids were alright, actually.

So I do as most women over 40. I play flash time-wasters. It's a much quicker hit of the gamecrack. If you strung all the middle aged women playing flash time wasters ass to ass you'd go to the moon and back 74 times.

Naturally, these are the ne-plus-ultra of UNCOOL because of who plays them but guess what, they're still games. If definition of "gamer" means "only school-aged teenchild standing in line over zombies" you have failed demographic 101.

Fine, don't include farmville and mafia wars and shit like that, you've still lost about 1/3 of the people I was FPS-ing with who were 30+.

 

[Primalex]

Naturally, these are the ne-plus-ultra of UNCOOL because of who plays them but guess what, they're still games. If definition of "gamer" means "only school-aged teenchild standing in line over zombies" you have failed demographic 101.

We were talking about L4D(2). Like it or not.

Did you see anyone here denying the existence of Candy Crush players?


Seriously, this kind of arguing - leading the current discussion into a completely irrelevant direction - annoys me.

 

[Stella_Omega]

We were talking about L4D(2). Like it or not.

Did you see anyone here denying the existence of Candy Crush players?


Seriously, this kind of arguing - leading the current discussion into a completely irrelevant direction - annoys me.

No, actually, we are not talking about L4D. We're talking about all games-- YourCaptor brought up the two games he plays.

Girls don't go to those cons in person for the same reasons they don't reveal themselves to be female online.

 

[Netzach]

No, actually, we are not talking about L4D. We're talking about all games-- YourCaptor brought up the two games he plays.

Uh this?