Bistro Bijou

[UnderYourSpell]

Now listen to me and u listen good young lady more than one person is rooting for you but what good would a slanging match do anyone ? just make it hang around for longer and get more and more acrimonous that's what. I know it's hard to ignore and must hurt terribly but don't let anyone beat you down and stop you from being the uttlerly disgraceful loving person you are.
If you are looking in here again Julie as you must do to be able to quote from it I am ashamed of you and as for the bestiality stuff that was going too far if you had bothered to read it properly you would have seen it was nothing to do with bj it was a grotty PM that someone else got.
Don't give up on us Bj and we won't give up on you

 

[unpredictablebijou]

Now listen to me and u listen good young lady more than one person is rooting for you but what good would a slanging match do anyone ? just make it hang around for longer and get more and more acrimonous that's what. I know it's hard to ignore and must hurt terribly but don't let anyone beat you down and stop you from being the uttlerly disgraceful loving person you are.
If you are looking in here again Julie as you must do to be able to quote from it I am ashamed of you and as for the bestiality stuff that was going too far if you had bothered to read it properly you would have seen it was nothing to do with bj it was a grotty PM that someone else got.
Don't give up on us Bj and we won't give up on you

I will never give up on anyone here, I promise. Giving up on this area and what it seems to stand for right now is different. Individually, I am absolutely there for everyone. Not going. Just tired, is all. And no, I don't want anyone to fight for me, or about me. It would be better for no one to take sides at all. I'm just tired of having to duck and cover every three months. And I've never really gotten why it has to be about me. That's the part I'm really tired of.

I'm around. I promise.

bj

 

[Homburg]

Hey y'all.

Someone go ahead and tell nj it worked. I'm done trying for a bit. I had a bunch of cool ideas for threads and new challenges and things. Maybe after I can be free from stalking I'll wander back and try some stuff, but really, what the fuck is the point?

I hope the bistro continues to be the space it is, and the space I intended. I'll be around, for PMs and in other places, but fuck this shit. It is real, it is harmful, it is bullshit. And when my abuser gets five times the support my single defender gets, where do I really stand?

I really do love this place, and you all. But no matter how I try to avoid drama, it keeps hunting me down, and i have lost my patience.

catch ya on the sunny side,

bj

As usual, I'm clueless about this, as I hang out here and keep a vague eye on a thread or two otherwise, but would just slapping somebody on ignore help? Dunno if it is the same person or not, but Ignore sometimes cures what ails ya, so long as you can resist the temptation to read their posts anyway.

Regardless, you've got other spots on here that you are more than welcome, so don't be a stranger.

And I won't even glare at you for that thread resurrection. Much.

 

[champagne1982]

Darling upbj and sparkly girl,

I am so sorry I posted in response. As I've already mentioned in a different reply on the blog thread. It should have been allowed to pass unremarked. You know me, though, if there is poetry, I will write it.

Sometimes, there's no point to continuing but yes, you're right, LS got no backing at all. I regret that name calling resulted from my poking about. I promise to avoid setting hornets' nests aflame from now on and simply offer you personal notes of support.

I hesitate at using the PM feature when I am replying to an open post. We all know that the potential for that shit to spill over into any and all threads rather than being addressed directly and that's my main reason for a quick reply, a hasty bandage and supplying a whole lot of time and a splash of understanding.

Sorry, sorry.

 

[Angeline]

I will never give up on anyone here, I promise. Giving up on this area and what it seems to stand for right now is different. Individually, I am absolutely there for everyone. Not going. Just tired, is all. And no, I don't want anyone to fight for me, or about me. It would be better for no one to take sides at all. I'm just tired of having to duck and cover every three months. And I've never really gotten why it has to be about me. That's the part I'm really tired of.

I'm around. I promise.

bj

I've spent over six years being around here for everyone. And I'm around, too. I promise, too. And I'm not going anywhere either. If people would simply use the ignore feature as I've recommended many times then words, for whatever purpose they're used, have no power to hurt anyone. She doesn't break forum rules, we have no reason to ban her so ignore is what we have. And as I told you in pm I have no heart to turn my back on someone I fear is in danger of hurting themself.

You pm me and tell me "everyone" treats you like a dog under the table and supports her. You tell me there's no drama. I hate even saying this because your post and my response creates more of it but I'm tired of pm's saying I'm supported and then reading posts that undermine my efforts to make this a good place for all.

Darling upbj and sparkly girl,

I am so sorry I posted in response. As I've already mentioned in a different reply on the blog thread. It should have been allowed to pass unremarked. You know me, though, if there is poetry, I will write it.

Sometimes, there's no point to continuing but yes, you're right, LS got no backing at all. I regret that name calling resulted from my poking about. I promise to avoid setting hornets' nests aflame from now on and simply offer you personal notes of support.

I hesitate at using the PM feature when I am replying to an open post. We all know that the potential for that shit to spill over into any and all threads rather than being addressed directly and that's my main reason for a quick reply, a hasty bandage and supplying a whole lot of time and a splash of understanding.

Sorry, sorry.

I'm sorry, too. I care about you very much and I think you're in a really awkward position. I try very hard to bend and accomodate everyone because I care about you all and I don't want to hurt anyone. Lately I've felt about ready to break and I'm pretty sure I don't deserve feeling that way.

 

[champagne1982]

I'm sorry, too. I care about you very much and I think you're in a really awkward position. I try very hard to bend and accomodate everyone because I care about you all and I don't want to hurt anyone. Lately I've felt about ready to break and I'm pretty sure I don't deserve feeling that way.

Don't be bitter, don't be brittle,

bend like a reed, for when one
is braided with another
true strength is found
in the bond that ties
them both together.

 

[Angeline]

Don't be bitter, don't be brittle,

bend like a reed, for when one
is braided with another
true strength is found
in the bond that ties
them both together.

Thank you.

 

[champagne1982]

I will never give up on anyone here, I promise. Giving up on this area and what it seems to stand for right now is different. Individually, I am absolutely there for everyone. Not going. Just tired, is all. And no, I don't want anyone to fight for me, or about me. It would be better for no one to take sides at all. I'm just tired of having to duck and cover every three months. And I've never really gotten why it has to be about me. That's the part I'm really tired of.

I'm around. I promise.

bj

I get this so completely. Remember my five day break a couple of months ago? It was perfect. I know this all touches you far more closely than it smudges around me and I wish I had an answer to the "why". I don't know.

Take your break dear lady and I'll keep in touch through the other features of this website. After all, I'm still writing a story and you still will have to read it.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

.....................

 

[Homburg]

I try very hard to bend and accomodate everyone because I care about you all and I don't want to hurt anyone. Lately I've felt about ready to break and I'm pretty sure I don't deserve feeling that way.

I've personally found that hurting people sometimes relieves that "about to break" stress. I'm a fan of not breaking.

I have to nod and agree strongly on the Ignore feature. We come to Lit for entertainment. If someone is hampering your entertainment, ignore that person. It's that simple.

(And sometimes that even includes people that you feel are in danger of hurting themselves. We can't save everyone, and there comes a time when you realise that the person in question is just not going to listen, and your own health becomes more important.)

And all of this is said as someone that has been on BBS' for 20+ years now (working dial-up stuff on <100 baud modems) and has refused to use ignore until perhaps last year. It took quite a bit of thought to be willing to ignore someone, and I found myself checking their posts anyway. After a while, the effort of clicking that "view post" link became too much, as it was a reminder of just how little worth that individual had. My Lit experience is vastly better for it too.

Back to the hurting people stuff, if anyone really needs slapped around, I'll gladly send some "Come to Jesus" PM's. I'll *talk* to people so that the folks I care about have less stress. Or, frankly, just if they ask me to. I'm friendly like that

 

[Chefzilla]

STOP!!!

You know what? All this anger is enough to bring me out of the closet (sorry, SB). That oughtta piss a few of you off!

Wow, has it been toxic around here while I've been gone.

Can't we all just get along?

I just want to be loved. Is that so WRROOOONNNNGGG!

Let's all just sit in a circle, take a toke or two off the hookah, pass around the brownies and chill, okay?

BJ, I spend the night in the chair thinking she'll be there but she never comes, and I wake up and wipe the sleep from my eyes and I rise to face another day without you[sic]

Without Her

If I promise to stick around, can we get back to what this was when I left?

Hey y'all.

Someone go ahead and tell nj it worked. I'm done trying for a bit. I had a bunch of cool ideas for threads and new challenges and things. Maybe after I can be free from stalking I'll wander back and try some stuff, but really, what the fuck is the point?

I hope the bistro continues to be the space it is, and the space I intended. I'll be around, for PMs and in other places, but fuck this shit. It is real, it is harmful, it is bullshit. And when my abuser gets five times the support my single defender gets, where do I really stand?

I really do love this place, and you all. But no matter how I try to avoid drama, it keeps hunting me down, and i have lost my patience.

catch ya on the sunny side,

bj

 

[Shankara20]

pass around the brownies and chill, okay?

I don't know what is going on - I have been away a long time...

but I'm all for the brownies

 

[champagne1982]

STOP!!!

You know what? All this anger is enough to bring me out of the closet (sorry, SB). That oughtta piss a few of you off!

Wow, has it been toxic around here while I've been gone.

Can't we all just get along?

I just want to be loved. Is that so WRROOOONNNNGGG!

Let's all just sit in a circle, take a toke or two off the hookah, pass around the brownies and chill, okay?

BJ, I spend the night in the chair thinking she'll be there but she never comes, and I wake up and wipe the sleep from my eyes and I rise to face another day without you[sic]

Without Her

If I promise to stick around, can we get back to what this was when I left?

Hello, hello. Your link is broken... here it is, all fixed.

Without Her .​

As far as returning to an earlier time, well, we can't go back but we can always go ahead in a better direction.

 

[sassynyc]

STOP!!!

You know what? All this anger is enough to bring me out of the closet (sorry, SB). That oughtta piss a few of you off!

Wow, has it been toxic around here while I've been gone.

Can't we all just get along?

I just want to be loved. Is that so WRROOOONNNNGGG!

Let's all just sit in a circle, take a toke or two off the hookah, pass around the brownies and chill, okay?

BJ, I spend the night in the chair thinking she'll be there but she never comes, and I wake up and wipe the sleep from my eyes and I rise to face another day without you[sic]

Without Her

If I promise to stick around, can we get back to what this was when I left?

nice to see you, Your Chefiness.
you are missed.

 

[unpredictablebijou]

I love this place, this crowd, so much it genuinely brings tears to my eyes.

So.

I'm going to clarify something in hopes of getting one of those wonderful, in-depth dialogues started in the bistro, like we've had sometimes.

Family dynamics built on secrecy and denial are destructive. In a healthy community, people communicate honestly and with compassion, even in a conflict. Anger and resentment are addressed directly and unacceptable behavior is pointed out and corrected, in a kind but firm way.

Obviously no group of monkeys behaves well all the time. Chess club, poetry board, lutheran sewing circle, every group has the same basic dynamic, and once in a while someone is going to throw some poo. Someone will feel hurt, or slighted, or someone will behave badly.

A family which forces its members to deny what is happening is dysfunctional family. It's destructive to create a structure in which we're all supposed to pretend that something is not happening: Daddy didn't come home drunk and beat us all last night. Everything's fine. Mommy isn't in the kitchen throwing dishes. We're really a perfect family. There's an elephant in the living room, but we aren't supposed to talk about it. We're taught to soldier on uncomfortably, pretending everything is fine.

Over on the general board, if someone is acting like an asshole, someone else is sure to point it out. Now, that obviously doesn't always stop the asshole, but it does create an honest dynamic in which everyone can form an opinion without getting hushed by the grownups. Pretending it's not happening does nothing good. It doesn't make the offending person stop; in fact it encourages Daddy to continue the abuse because he can feel secure that appearances are being kept up, because it's still being ignored and tolerated. It also makes everyone else in the family participate in the destruction: don't talk about it, don't confront it, don't say what everyone is thinking. Just stay quiet. Don't protest. Pretend it's all okay.

I grew up like that. I don't like it. More to the point, I've never seen it work. Being willing to accept or ignore unacceptable behavior does not make the offender less likely to behave badly. Nor does it make anyone else in the group happy or healthy. People deserve the right to protest when something unpleasant is happening, and the right to confront an attacker. That's not about the health of the attacker; that's about the health of everyone else.

I've seen any number of examples of a healthy dynamic elsewhere on Lit. When someone, either new stranger or old regular, starts acting like an asshole, they are told so. Whether or not they stop, at least the community is able to be honest. And what I've noticed is that those communities tend to be more peaceful because they have a straightforward standard about acceptable behavior. Not everyone follows it, but at least it's clear. There is a better group dynamic when that is the case.

I am NOT talking about engaging in endless poo-throwing contests. We've seen some really intense versions of that here in the past, and they were pointless. But to step up and be straightforward has to be an acceptable choice; to say “I don't like this” or “I'm angry” should be okay. Ideally, there is no ad hominem attack, and there isn't an abusive dialogue, but if someone is angry, or wants attention, or feels that something is unfair, they should be able to say so in a healthy way. Hopefully the problem is addressed with compassion, solved effectively and healed properly. And then it should be over. Finished. After that, if it's just poo-throwing, ignoring is an option. But everyone should have the right to protest and respond when they don't like what's happening to them.

I've been lurking on the GB for a while now, and while it can sometimes be Asshat Central, it's also a much more straightforward culture, and as such somewhat healthier. Weird, huh? But there it is.

This is NOT intended to start a dialogue about the latest Dramallama in the PFD. Far from it; I hope this will simply end that bit for now. What I'm hoping for is that folks will look at their own real life and consider aspects of conflict in their own families and groups, and how each individual dynamic is created.

So. What are your own stories about your family and origins? Were you allowed to be angry, to protest, to say you didn't like something? Was there an elephant in your living room that you weren't allowed to acknowledge? Was there a malfunction you were taught to ignore? Did it affect the ways you deal with conflict as an adult?

On a personal note, I think it would be good for me to do a sort of monastic sabbatical, and in that vein I'm going to start a somewhat more flexible 30/30 challenge for the Hangout side. For that period, I'm going to focus solely on writing, just writing my heart out. Maybe I feel like I have something to prove. I dunno. It's a thread that I hope will be beneficial to all writers, and I do hope you'll join me. And while I won't be behind the bar for a while, the Bistro will never close its doors to anyone, at any time. We're serving up attention, compassion and acceptance 24/7, as always. It's not a perfect family, but it's a perfect whatever it is.


Namaste

bijou

 

[PandoraGlitters]

On Bullies, Targets, and Support

(deleted for being tmi and too self-involved)

 

[Sara Crewe]

Well.

I get tied up at work, come back and see a mess. Same fucking mess that's been spewing up here again and again.

I'm sorry NJ is mentally ill. That's a no-brainer. Nobody likes to see a person be sick mentally or physically.

I have a problem seeing someone as 'out of control', ill and therefore pardoned for whatever they do when that person clearly is aware of who they are choosing to pick on and clearly aware that it's wrong because most of it is done under an alt or in private. That shows recognition of what is right and what is wrong, so nobody is going to tell me that she is not in control of herself in those moments.

I have seen this pattern happen way too many times. In a couple of weeks, she'll be back telling everyone she loves them and asking for forgiveness.

I just gotta say for what's worth--this door is closed. I don't fucking ever want to see her shit in here again. If I see it, it's getting called shit. I am not okay with it and never have been--I just kept expecting the fact that she was a grown up to kick in at some point. It's crap. It's toxic and it's boring.

The fact that she needs to amuse herself by attacking people is her choice and I understand she is free to do that. She then needs to understand that people are free to call her a vindictive bitch who is no longer welcome here.


I should have said that a long time ago.

And, I don't need an answer to that. I'm not asking for input and don't need anything from this place. I just know too well that everyone smiling while the teenager steals the silver usually just means by the end of the night you have an empty silverware drawer. And they usually come back fom the TV, your carpet, your car, until you say, "Stop touching my stuff and go away." If it's wrong--it's wrong. Shouldn't matter who says it or why.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I can totally relate to what you have gone through I grew up in fear too but a fear that no-one knew about it's not been till lately I told my sisters and they had no idea it was going on ... whether my father knew I will never know if he did he didn't stop it. I told once at school and it was a very stupid thing to do enough said that I was branded a liar and made to see a phsychiatrist .... how does a councellor cure bruised and thrashed legs? I never knew how they got round that one. There was more abuse going on in my life but by god I never told about that sort!!!!!! No way was I ever going to let anyone know THAT secret .......I never told anyone about 'that sort' until I was in my 30s. It still haunts me it always will I will always be that little girl begging her mother not to cut the willow twig ..... please oh please nooooo!!

 

[PandoraGlitters]

:hugs UYS:

 

[Homburg]

I have never, and will never, use any sort of implement on one of my children. I am not averse to a swat ont he butt (and one child has actually gotten spanked), but I have no desire to strew the sort of wreckage that UYS describes into the psyches of my babies.

My father grew up like that, and swore he'd never hit me. He was beaten with anything that was at hand, including wrenches, stout sticks, a rifle butt, etc. Nothing like this would ever happen to my kids.

*hugs UYS*

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Thankyou for your hugs this place is still a good place to be for support I never had kids of my own because I couldn't but perhaps it's a good thing. All abusers learnt it somewhere and what if I.........? Maybe .... maybe not but I learnt mental as well as physical abuse and mental abuse leaves no visible marks or scars those are buried in my soul. I have blocked a lot of my childhood and what is strange is that it's not the bad things that are blocked as you would think at least I don't think there is more of that (but who can tell!) but my sister sometimes mentions things and I think why didn't I remember that before?

 

[Homburg]

Thankyou for your hugs this place is still a good place to be for support I never had kids of my own because I couldn't but perhaps it's a good thing. All abusers learnt it somewhere and what if I.........? Maybe .... maybe not

Well, my dad is a good example of how someone can break that chain. He is a gentle soul, and never raised a hand against me. I imagine that you might have been the same way.

 

[Chefzilla]

Hello, hello. Your link is broken... here it is, all fixed.

Without Her .​

As far as returning to an earlier time, well, we can't go back but we can always go ahead in a better direction.

Thanks, Champ. You're a champ!
Hi!
Chef

 

[Chefzilla]

All right, all right. If I'm going to come back out of the closet (so to speak), I might as well do it right.

So here goes:

Any questions?
Chef

 

[Homburg]

Hiya, Cheffalump. How's life in PA treating you? Methinks it is probably a wee bit colder than what you are used to, eh?

I'd give you some hot chocolate if you were closer.