Bullshit Ratings

[B_Couric]

This is a great question, and I feel like you on some days. I haven't written in a long time (years?) because it's very, very hard for me to write well, but I have written some higher rated stuff. It was painful. I'll get to why.

To your base question:

1. I think bad grammar or spelling is a huge issue for many people, and you'll lose points on that alone. At one point I actually forgot my password (I think I was drunk when I redid it), and because that account was tied to an email I no longer used, I lost access completely. My solution? Start again. My basic writing skills had improved significantly, and I think that had a huge impact on my ratings.

2. MohanSingh mentioned it's like Pornhub. Yep. I cannot stand the "highly rated" vids on the major sites. It's like most people's actual sexual desires are closer to a gorilla than what I think a human would like. Oh well.

3. Kinks - Some kinks are just inherently unpopular. I'm into well written wife/girlfriend sharing stories. It's very hard to find highly rated stories with that theme. They have to be exceptionally well written. I find anything "family" related, the step-sis type stuff, horrifying (worry for humanity horrifying). It's wildly popular these days. But I'm sure that's what people think of my kink.

4. Readers like endless chapter stories that end ambiguously, so if one is successful, it helps the ratings of the next submission.

5. Most stories are just trash spank bank exercises for the authors. I admit to suffering from this affliction, and have only posted about 5% of everything I've written.

Anyway, I like to think I have a bunch of great ideas in my realm, but putting those ideas into well written, compelling plots, is hard as hell for me. My best stuff requires endless redrafts. I'll see mistakes on the fifth read that went right past me the first four times. It made writing a depressing, time consuming experience, so I more or less gave it up.

I admit, I do love that high rating. It's a rush. So the opposite is a severe disappointment. I usually know why it's badly rated, but I feel bad. If I got paid, I wouldn't care so much, but I don't, and my desire to be an "artist" isn't that high.

 

[oneCresserelle]

While most people would probably say that 4.77 - 4.8 are good scores and I wouldn't change my stories, the difference between 4.8 and 4.9 is the difference between "hardly anyone will see this once it's no longer on the first page of newest stories" and "contest winner / top ten in the Hall Of Fame". So I've looked at those 4.85 - 4.9 stories to figure out how I can improve what I write, and most of the time, I can't figure out what's so great about those stories.

I've also thought about it, and I think that it has a lot to do with a fundamental flaw of a 1-5 rating system. Namely with how much power it gives to low-rating voters.

Imagine you submitted a story. Nine people loved it and voted 5. One person hated it and voted 1. The score is now a staggering 4.6, even if an overwhelming majority of readers love the story (by rottentomatoes logic, it's a 90%). And remember that a 1-vote is rarely an opinion on the quality of your story, it's generally just a signal that you just touched on some completely arbitrary sore point in someone's poor head.

Now consider the LI system which heavily rewards ratings above, say, 4.9. If you triggered just one random internet person enough for them to vote 1 on your story, you'd need 39 people voting 5 to bring it up to that level.

Thirty-nine!

So in the high-end it's not the proportion of people who liked your story that decides its score, it's the low voters. If you don't have a following large enough to drown these out, you're entirely at their random mercy.

 

[DelNovo]

I've also thought about it, and I think that it has a lot to do with a fundamental flaw of a 1-5 rating system. Namely with how much power it gives to low-rating voters.

Imagine you submitted a story. Nine people loved it and voted 5. One person hated it and voted 1. The score is now a staggering 4.6, even if an overwhelming majority of readers love the story (by rottentomatoes logic, it's a 90%). And remember that a 1-vote is rarely an opinion on the quality of your story, it's generally just a signal that you just touched on some completely arbitrary sore point in someone's poor head.

Now consider the LI system which heavily rewards ratings above, say, 4.9. If you triggered just one random internet person enough for them to vote 1 on your story, you'd need 39 people voting 5 to bring it up to that level.

Thirty-nine!

So in the high-end it's not the proportion of people who liked your story that decides its score, it's the low voters. If you don't have a following large enough to drown these out, you're entirely at their random mercy.

Yeah, maybe that's it. I have always been flabbergasted by how some stories, despite having been posted only a day or two ago according to the date stamp, rack up several hundred votes in that time. It's like - okay, so you have a lot of followers... but how many different stories, focused on sex, can you create before they start becoming obvious variations on the same theme?

Regardless, it's just a big popularity contest again, and of course that puts a guy like me at a disadvantage because I don't have, and never did have, a support group that promotes my interests. I mean, if I had a hundred acquaintances or so who would read my story and vote on it, boom, high score. But to give you an idea of what my support group is like, my own father told me that he didn't want me around him until I change my appearance... and the only thing offensive about my appearance (in his mind) is that I look somewhat like I don't fit in with society. (There are people out there whose appearances make that much more obvious than mine does.) That's my support group. The rest of my nuclear family is on that wagon, as is much if not all of my extended family. That's just the beginning of that story. When you're the type who doesn't put up with BS or phony people, you tend to have few social connections.

Maybe if there's reincarnation, I'll come back in a more fortuitous situation where I'm surrounded by truly good people who make worthwhile social connections... and then my stories will score higher.

 

[SimonDoom]

Regardless, it's just a big popularity contest again, and of course that puts a guy like me at a disadvantage because I don't have, and never did have, a support group that promotes my interests. I mean, if I had a hundred acquaintances or so who would read my story and vote on it, boom, high score.

I don't think this is a big factor for most authors here. I have no support network outside Literotica -- nobody in the outside world knows I do this. There are strategies one can follow to gain popularity, if that's what one is after.

High ratings are helpful to gain popularity (if by "popularity" one means many followers), but not essential.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I don't think this is a big factor for most authors here. I have no support network outside Literotica -- nobody in the outside world knows I do this. There are strategies one can follow to gain popularity, if that's what one is after.

Agree this. I have maybe half a dozen folk here who I communicate with behind the scenes and nobody in real life knows I write.

My stories therefore survive on their merits and the followers and readers who rate them. I have no communication with followers other than the Lit notification system. I certainly don't go out and cajole votes.

 

[lovecraft68]

I understand that the way people get 'paid' here is through votes comments scores etc...

I get that people of course want to see their work garner good scores and a lot of attention. Its why you're putting your work out publicly rather than leaving them on your PC.

The Red H and top lists and contests in many ways create the trolling and cheerleading and other games here, they're all great accomplishments, but also the cause of a lot of issues and threads about bombing and discussions like this about deceptive scores.

So its all very understandable.

But I wish there was this much obsession among writers about their writing and how they feel about it, and less threads about scores bombs and how to be popular.

The moment you start writing based on "this will get a lot of views" you're stunting your creativity and being the writer someone else wants you to be, not who you want to be.

 

[AlinaX]

Getting hundreds of votes very quickly is more about Category than anything. Mind Control, for example, seems to get lots of votes very quickly. Fetish and Erotic Horror, by contrast, gather votes very slowly. I wrote a lovely series in Letters & Transcripts, and that has barely been read...

Having a lot of followers on Lit does, I think, help in the medium term rather than the short term.

I certainly don't have any real-life supporters...

 

[lovecraft68]

Getting hundreds of votes very quickly is more about Category than anything. Mind Control, for example, seems to get lots of votes very quickly. Fetish and Erotic Horror, by contrast, gather votes very slowly. I wrote a lovely series in Letters & Transcripts, and that has barely been read...

Having a lot of followers on Lit does, I think, help in the medium term rather than the short term.

I certainly don't have any real-life supporters...

Its about category even above following. Example for me is I have a large following in I/T but if I post a story in Fetish or loving wives, they are not following me there. Mot readers follow the kink not the author.

You can get some crossover...if I write in mature with Milf stories there's some mom son fans who enjoy those as well same for dad/daughter fans translating over to older man young girl stories.

But for the most part the readers stay in their own little kinks. I had one feedback say "what the hell are you doing wasting time in First time, you could have written another great mom story instead."

Of course its always some, not all, there are people who have varied interests, but your main following will be built in whatever category you seem to write the most in.

 

[SimonDoom]

Its about category even above following. Example for me is I have a large following in I/T but if I post a story in Fetish or loving wives, they are not following me there. Mot readers follow the kink not the author.

You can get some crossover...if I write in mature with Milf stories there's some mom son fans who enjoy those as well same for dad/daughter fans translating over to older man young girl stories.

But for the most part the readers stay in their own little kinks. I had one feedback say "what the hell are you doing wasting time in First time, you could have written another great mom story instead."

Of course its always some, not all, there are people who have varied interests, but your main following will be built in whatever category you seem to write the most in.

One of the underrated ways to get eyeballs on stories is the "similar stories" feature. I have you to thank, in part, because one of my mom-son stories pops up on the similar stories list at the end of several of your mom-son stories. That story continues to get far more views than any other story I've written, several years after publication. The only reason I can think of is the similar stories list.

I'm not exactly sure how the similar stories list algorithm works, but I assume it's a matter of the stories having readers who've favorited them in common.

 

[lovecraft68]

One of the underrated ways to get eyeballs on stories is the "similar stories" feature. I have you to thank, in part, because one of my mom-son stories pops up on the similar stories list at the end of several of your mom-son stories. That story continues to get far more views than any other story I've written, several years after publication. The only reason I can think of is the similar stories list.

I'm not exactly sure how the similar stories list algorithm works, but I assume it's a matter of the stories having readers who've favorited them in common.

Not sure how it works except its gotten much much better. I recall a few years back looking at one of my stories and seeing a GM story in the similar stories.

 

[Abbafan]

Many, many Literotica readers are looking for quick arousal. They gravitate toward categories they like and reward the stories that give them the fix they're looking for. Often, those readers don't care much about "literary quality," whatever that is.

Well, yeah. I gave 5 stars to one story that was really badly written, by the traditional standards. I mean, the author kept switching from past to present tense then back again(really annoying, IMO) and would switch from first person to third person without any rhyme or reason. Sometimes mid paragraph.

I thought the story succeeded in what it was trying to do, though.

If you want something that's a little more serious or even tries to be literary, one thing I'd do is avoid the ones that are 1, 2, or 3 pages long. You can usually tell quite a bit about a writers skills and what kind of story it is within a paragraph or two. Often that's what you have to do, take the time to click on the link and read a little bit of it. The title and the little one or two sentence description won't always be enough to let you know the approach the writer takes to a subject.

 

[Salacious_Scribe]

One of the underrated ways to get eyeballs on stories is the "similar stories" feature. I have you to thank, in part, because one of my mom-son stories pops up on the similar stories list at the end of several of your mom-son stories. That story continues to get far more views than any other story I've written, several years after publication. The only reason I can think of is the similar stories list.

I'm not exactly sure how the similar stories list algorithm works, but I assume it's a matter of the stories having readers who've favorited them in common.

I think the tags are what links stories, because new stories have a similar stories list and few to no one has favorited them.

I looked at tags one time on one of my stories and some of the similar stories which were nothing like my story, but the tags were similar.

MAde me pay more attention to how I tagged my stories.

 

[SimonDoom]

I think the tags are what links stories, because new stories have a similar stories list and few to no one has favorited them.

I looked at tags one time on one of my stories and some of the similar stories which were nothing like my story, but the tags were similar.

MAde me pay more attention to how I tagged my stories.

I think the tags might be a factor at first, when a story is newly published, but clearly there is more at work after a while.

The only story of mine that pops up on many similar story lists is Late Night On The Loveseat With Mom. It is BY FAR my most favorited story, and appears on the all time most favorited story list. I've looked at whether it shares tags in common with other stories, and I don't think that explains it. What does explain it is that that story has been favorited by many of the same people that have favorited other stories.

When I look at the Similar Stories list on my story, what stands out is that all the stories have tons of favorites. That indicates that favorites are the key to positioning on this list.

 

[RelentlessOnanism]

I'm trying to ignore the ratings but it is a devilishly difficult thing to do. None of my recent stories have scored anything like as well as my earlier stories. I don't think my writing has deteriorated but the readers seem to disagree. I'm trying to tell myself it doesn’t matter, but it's not easy.

 

[Tigersman]

When I first joined Lit if the blurb caught my eye I'd read the story, vote and leave a comment. I discovered a lot of stories had an abundance of misspelled words. It was apparent the authors were relying on Spellcheck too much and didn't know what a dictionary is used for. I later became a volunteer editor. Over the years I've worked with many authors, some of whom have special problems that affects their writing.

The one thing I still can not understand is why someone who doesn't like a certain category of story will read a story from that category then give it a bad rating and leave a bad comment.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I'm trying to ignore the ratings but it is a devilishly difficult thing to do. None of my recent stories have scored anything like as well as my earlier stories. I don't think my writing has deteriorated but the readers seem to disagree. I'm trying to tell myself it doesn’t matter, but it's not easy.

There's a hoary old project management (maybe armed services) saying: "once is happenstance, twice is circumstance, third time is enemy action." I reckon, if you keep getting the same comments over and over, it's time to pay attention. Unless of course the feedback is, "you're not writing what I like," which is a different problem entirely.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

There's a hoary old project management (maybe armed services) saying: "once is happenstance, twice is circumstance, third time is enemy action." I reckon, if you keep getting the same comments over and over, it's time to pay attention. Unless of course the feedback is, "you're not writing what I like," which is a different problem entirely.

That is a misquote from Ian Fleming in "Goldfinger." "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action."

 

[ElectricBlue]

That is a misquote from Ian Fleming in "Goldfinger." "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action."

You're right - coincidence, not circumstance (I knew it began with a C). "Goldfinger" - of course! I'd forgotten that, but can now hear it in my head .

 

[SisterJezabel]

That is to say, I've found nothing below 4.4 that I have rated 5. Between 4 and 4.4, I've given anything from 1 to 4. Below 4, I've never found anything that rates above 2 and most of it is garbage.

.

My main exception to this is the LW category. I've read lots of good stories that rate a 3.5 and are left with that because they are either given a 1 or a 5 based on philosophy. What gets me is the people who can't differentiate between fact and fiction. One of my fantasies is to have a weekend of passion with a man who's not my partner. Doesn't mean I'd ever do it, but it's nice to dream! Of course posting a story like this (as I recently discovered) has given me my lowest rating and highest commented on story. What surprised me though were the eight PMs I received telling me that I had described a fantasy of theirs.

But sorry, back to your scale above, I tend to agree with it.

 

[GroverLang]

I've found that the ratings don't truly reflect the quality of the stories

That is to say, I've found nothing below 4.4 that I have rated 5. Between 4 and 4.4, I've given anything from 1 to 4. Below 4, I've never found anything that rates above 2 and most of it is garbage. .

I've looked at those 4.85 - 4.9 stories to figure out how I can improve what I write

There might be a bunch of people out there just looking for a cheap thrill.

1 agree with you ratings (sometimes) don’t always reflect the quality of the the story.

I never vote less than 4 no matter how bad the story and it’s obvious from the first few paragraphs the quality is poor. The writer has put their time into writing and I don’t think they should be discouraged. My writing now is infinitely better than my first attempts. In fact I’ve kept my first two to remind me how bad I was at the time. It amazes me they are both over 4.2.

I also look at highly rated stories (my highest rated are 4.8+) because I want to improve. I believe your writing is never so good you can’t learn, even published authors.

I think it’s not a question of “there might be a bunch of people out there looking for a cheap thrill” but how many of these are out there and I believe there are plenty.

 

[Artie88]

Thanks for the interest and replies, varied as they are.

I understand the widespread tastes that are going to drive the widespread comments, but it is still a mystery why some stories get such high ratings. (Such as, why do we never see stories with 1.0 rating??? Statistics would suggest otherwise).

How about we get a Worst List to offset the Top List?

Bet they would actually be about the same overall quality

 

[Bramblethorn]

Thanks for the interest and replies, varied as they are.

I understand the widespread tastes that are going to drive the widespread comments, but it is still a mystery why some stories get such high ratings. (Such as, why do we never see stories with 1.0 rating??? Statistics would suggest otherwise).

They're out there. I'm not going to point to them because that feels mean-spirited, but I'm aware of an author who has dozens of 1.00s.

 

[KeithD]

They're out there. I'm not going to point to them because that feels mean-spirited, but I'm aware of an author who has dozens of 1.00s.

And yet tops one of the major lists here.

 

[lovecraft68]

They're out there. I'm not going to point to them because that feels mean-spirited, but I'm aware of an author who has dozens of 1.00s.

I know who you're talking about and I give them credit, they write exactly what they want even though it seems to antagonize everyone to the point I want to say in their incredibly long list of stories they don't have one H.

That is sticking to your guns, as twisted as they may be.

 

[RelentlessOnanism]

A word to the wise. If you think your story's score is unfair, you can request a sweep. I didn't know this was the case, I assumed you were reliant on the vagaries of Literotica's software. But, as I was perusing through the submissions FAQs, I saw that you could ask for your score to be checked.

I had been fairly disappointed with the score of one of my recent submissions, so I asked for the score to be checked, and it's now shot up and is the proud recipient of a red H (well, technically it's a white H in a red box, but you know what I mean).

This is what the FAQ section says:

If you see a story - yours or anothers - that has suspicious-looking voting patterns, please do use the REPORT THIS STORY feature to bring it to our attention and we will run a manual check as well. In the OTHER field, tell us to check the voting.

When you report suspicious voting this way, the system will send us a direct link to the story and make it much easier for us to check.