C is for Consensual...that's good enough for me

[Croctden]

I'm always very careful around this subject. I've heard too many times about doms going too far and the subs feeling violated.

Consent...I can accept a blanket consent, but that does not work for me. When I'm in a relationship I will periodically take her out to a restuarant (I always do this over a meal, I'm not sure why, maybe because it's emotionally far removed from the bedroom) and just chat about where we are. See what's she's thinking, likes and doesn't, is afraid of, wants more of or wants to try, etc. No offense, but I've found subs often don't bring their problems to the for unless you really press. I am constantly trying to edge a girl along to being my conception of a perfect slave, but if they give a firm no I can live. I do try to have them try everything at least once.

That being said I'm still going to have to be a bastard and say there are certian things I insist upon in a relationship. If they're not there, I walk. A BDSM relationship is the same any relationship, if someone is not getting what they want out of it they have the right to leave, that applies both ways.

 

[Mr Blonde]

So many great replies!

@Quint's scenario
Pushing limits is one thing, but ultimatems and headgames are not cool. These sort of problems can really be avoided if the communication has been adequate. The rest depends on the context and the circumstances.

As an aside, sometimes the mind is willing but the body cannot cooperate. If she aggravates her surgically repaired knee, and there is swelling and she will have difficulty walking tomorrow, we just have to shut it down. The "limits" can vary from day to day based on such real world factors.

@artful's scenario
Two things are obvious to me: Consent has been withdrawn and the dominant would be wise to not have any future contact with that submissive.


I have also had a short-term "blanket consent" situations. Two women have said to me that I could do anything I wanted tonight or this weekend. That obviously involves a great deal of trust and familiarity, but I felt comfortable with going ahead. Those two women were the only ones I have ever known where I would feel comfortable with such an arrangement.

Very interesting topic and a lot to think about!

 

[Croctden]

No headgames!?!

Define headgames. Half of how I control is headgames. Not to the extent that if you don't to "X" we're done, but plenty of more mild carrot and stick influences

 

[catalina_francisco]

Bump.....

 

[Pure]

The problem of consent is not easy, since the conditions under which its given, are crucially relevant.

One does not want 'coaxing' to negate consent (though some 'date rape' folks want this). But there are endless ways of wielding carrot and stick. Promises, threats, coercion. How about the old "I'm going to leave you, if you don't..." How about "I'll provide for your children, if you do..."

If you have enough time to 'work on' a person, e.g, from the time they are born, then getting their 'consent' is pretty routine and meaningless. It's pretty well established that suicide bombers are volunteers, and are (in most cases) entirely sane by any standard definition. They 'consent' to their deaths.

 

[Guest]

I said:


This was dragged from the thread http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=100040&pagenumber=3

So how far do you push your sub to grow? To change her hard limits into soft limits, and from there put them into practice without a second thought? Where does "Consensual" turn into "You agreed to be mine, so you can do this or leave"? Do you see anything wrong with that last statement, and how do you think that's affected by the permanence of your relationship? For example, if you're nauseated, is it because you're with somebody you want to spend the rest of your life with and can't imagine saying something like that? If you shrug and say "Well, that's how it is," is it because you're in a more temporary relationship?

In other words, how far do/could/would you push your sub (or be pushed by your Dom/me) to get their consent?

Alright! Let's have it out!

Interesting bump..

There can be a point in D/s where yes, it does boil down to "submit or leave". Or even more precisely "Dominate or leave".
Of course this does assume that you have done the groundwork before. If you have not, well then it is all pretty much out the window.
Providing that you have set the terms of the encounter beforehand, or the terms of the interactions in the relationship, I.E. the establishmet of a "safeword". Then the non use of the safeword, by someone who is capable of doing so, is pretty much "implied consent". But they have to be capable of using the safeword. Ergo it is a good idea to talk to them periodicly.
Hmm..
There can come a point though, where you are standing there with your dick in your hand, and a dumb look on your face.
Where rather than "safewording out", due to a problem, the pyl has "whined out"(oooo that ones gonna get my butt chewed on). Or in some cases simply refused without obvious reason. (as you see it. They probably have a reason, but they may not wish to discuss it with you)
Or it may be a simple refusal to comply/continue for whatever reason. But at that point, unless it is a safeword matter, those are the two choices that you are left with.
To put it in a gamblers parlance ..You can continue to play a losing hand, in a no-win game..Or you can pick up your chips and go in search of a different game.
You might as well leave, because once you let it go..You have ceased to be Dominant in that situation. And once it happens, and is let slide, it WILL happen again.