Can D/s do what therapy can not?

[BiBunny]

You can't be self-fulfilled as long as you engage in self-destructive behaviors, so that makes the point moot, doesn't it?

 

[YourCaptor]

You can't be self-fulfilled as long as you engage in self-destructive behaviors, so that makes the point moot, doesn't it?

You think D/s is self destructive?

 

[BiBunny]

You think D/s is self destructive?

No.

I mean, that D/s isn't going to fulfill someone who's already fucked up, and by "fucked up," I mean someone who engages in unhealthy behaviors. As romantic as the fantasy sounds, none of us are knights in shining armor. Happiness comes from within. If I "make" someone happy, then when that relationship ends (which it invariably well because all relationships do), that person will be miserable again. Which means it wasn't really happiness at all.

I think I'm talking in circles. But I know what I meant.

 

[YourCaptor]

No.

I mean, that D/s isn't going to fulfill someone who's already fucked up, and by "fucked up," I mean someone who engages in unhealthy behaviors. As romantic as the fantasy sounds, none of us are knights in shining armor. Happiness comes from within. If I "make" someone happy, then when that relationship ends (which it invariably well because all relationships do), that person will be miserable again. Which means it wasn't really happiness at all.

I think I'm talking in circles. But I know what I meant.

I don’t think so, I see the opposite of this every day.

Friends who use to be into drugs find girlfriends and almost magically go clean and turn hard worker. True most of them revert when the relationship ends, but some are still together, married, having kids.

Then their is the x gangster who goes into hiding when he has a child. Wanting to give the kid the father he never had. That story is so common is incredible really. People who fucked up their life turning workaholic to give their children opportunities.

Then their is the less extreme, self destructive party animals, slackers, etc, who get into a relationship and shape up.

Self fulfillment inst a place you have to be at to resolve your inner demons, it’s a road you have to be on. You can continue on that road even if the initial person to give you direction is gone.

And for some, relationships do last forever, even past death.

 

[Homburg]

And for some, relationships do last forever, even past death.

We call those people necrophiliacs, and generally consider them fucked up even by our twisted standards. YMMV.

 

[snowbyte]

It's just a hot-button issue for me.

I find your hot-buttons the most interesting thing about you, B-B .

In general, I agree with you. If someone _really_needs help, they should see a pro. The best you can get out of an S/O in a relationship is a bit of helpful tweaking and/or support. Significant help of the kind described in the frist ps0t would not be the kind of thing one would want or expect from a vanilla or BDSM-style relationship. The cost and burden would typically be too high.

-sb

 

[00Syd]

The most help I've gotten from relationships is (massive amounts of) support and kind words, which are two very helpful, wanted, and appreciated things, but not ultimately the thing that will fix all my problems.

I plan on seeing a shrink once I get back to school.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

BDSM is never a substitute for professional help.
Relationships are never a substitute for professional help.
The only substitute for professional help is different professional help. Period.

I agree. I think that PYLs who claim they 'cured' their pyl of some kind of psychological disorder are supremely arrogant and either incredibly lucky, capitalising on the pyl's own desire for positive change, or storing up a shitload of latent problems for when the relationship ends.

I also think that pyls who are looking for a PYL to solve all their problems are in the lifestyle for the wrong reasons and give the rest of us a bad name. The notion that pyls are weak willed doormats with zero self-esteem is perpetrated largely by these 'save me!' subs.

 

[intothewoods]

Btw, therapy should be more than conversation with a good listener.

 

[Netzach]

I don’t think so, I see the opposite of this every day.

Friends who use to be into drugs find girlfriends and almost magically go clean and turn hard worker. True most of them revert when the relationship ends, but some are still together, married, having kids.

Then their is the x gangster who goes into hiding when he has a child. Wanting to give the kid the father he never had. That story is so common is incredible really. People who fucked up their life turning workaholic to give their children opportunities.

Then their is the less extreme, self destructive party animals, slackers, etc, who get into a relationship and shape up.

Self fulfillment inst a place you have to be at to resolve your inner demons, it’s a road you have to be on. You can continue on that road even if the initial person to give you direction is gone.

And for some, relationships do last forever, even past death.

This is such a minority of people it's not even funny. Yes, some people wise up when they realize the impact of their behavior on other people, but the vast majority don't respond to this cue. There are so many more instances of the family being taken down with the person, just look at social services.

Why people take a two percenter of human experience and assume this will work better for them is beyond me.

 

[Netzach]

Btw, therapy should be more than conversation with a good listener.

Yes. If you're not getting behaviors you can choose over your current behaviors which aren't helping you, you might as well talk to friends.

 

[intothewoods]

This is such a minority of people it's not even funny. Yes, some people wise up when they realize the impact of their behavior on other people, but the vast majority don't respond to this cue. There are so many more instances of the family being taken down with the person, just look at social services.

Why people take a two percenter of human experience and assume this will work better for them is beyond me.

Just look at Oprah! I mean, her guests. You have to change because you want to. So the people who wise up, settle down, change their lives to have a relationship/family, do so because they are ready and they want to.

 

[twysted73]

Just look at Oprah! I mean, her guests. You have to change because you want to. So the people who wise up, settle down, change their lives to have a relationship/family, do so because they are ready and they want to.

But what if.....(one of my favorite lines) the individual is already settled...wife/husband...kids, dogs, the house....american dream....

Yet they still cannot overcome this daily/nightly fear....

Is "the oprah situation" really helpful?

I would never say a Dom/me's guidance should be taken over that of a trained psychologist/psychiatrist.
It's not wise.
What I am asking is: with such a close connection, bond, etc. Could the Dominant not assist in getting the submissive to see the need for help by pushing past those barriers erected against years of self-coping, failed therapists and resultless attempts?
Acting as a tool..a starting pistol of sorts to get the ball rolling towards a need and/or desire to seriously seek out and engage in professional counciling?

This point continues to poke it's annoying finger into my ribs ever since I read this post.

 

[intothewoods]

But what if.....(one of my favorite lines) the individual is already settled...wife/husband...kids, dogs, the house....american dream....

Yet they still cannot overcome this daily/nightly fear....

Is "the oprah situation" really helpful?

I would never say a Dom/me's guidance should be taken over that of a trained psychologist/psychiatrist.
It's not wise.
What I am asking is: with such a close connection, bond, etc. Could the Dominant not assist in getting the submissive to see the need for help by pushing past those barriers erected against years of self-coping, failed therapists and resultless attempts?
Acting as a tool..a starting pistol of sorts to get the ball rolling towards a need and/or desire to seriously seek out and engage in professional counciling?

This point continues to poke it's annoying finger into my ribs ever since I read this post.

My point about Oprah is that she has countless guests who have this "perfect life" on the outside, but are really hiding their addiction/dangerous behavior/affair/blah blah blah blah whatever it is. In other words, the scenario in which someone goes on the straight and narrow for a partner and sticks with it is not common. Not common at all. Sooner or later, they crack.

Can a Dominant persuade their pyl to go to therapy where others could not? Sure, just like any close and influential friend could. Can a Dominant force the pyl to break through their well-fortified psychological barriers preventing a healthy and happy life? Sure, but my money is not on that bond holding strong.

 

[cati]

We call those people necrophiliacs, and generally consider them fucked up even by our twisted standards. YMMV.

That was tasteless.

 

[catalina_francisco]

My point about Oprah is that she has countless guests who have this "perfect life" on the outside, but are really hiding their addiction/dangerous behavior/affair/blah blah blah blah whatever it is. In other words, the scenario in which someone goes on the straight and narrow for a partner and sticks with it is not common. Not common at all. Sooner or later, they crack.

Can a Dominant persuade their pyl to go to therapy where others could not? Sure, just like any close and influential friend could. Can a Dominant force the pyl to break through their well-fortified psychological barriers preventing a healthy and happy life? Sure, but my money is not on that bond holding strong.

HAve to agree. If someone does it to please another, usually when that other is not in their life anymore, or they have a serious fight, the behaviour returns to what it was before. It is not a change in behaviour, it is an act to give the impression that change has taken place.

Catalina

 

[madetotakeit]

I don't think because someone learns to open up and trust with the other person that trust would then be extended to the third person/therapist. Couldn't that relationship even possibly hinder the therapeutic relationship? If the pyl feels that there is someone who listens and understands would he/she then push even further from trusting the therapist? What if the pyl begins to feel that only someone who approaches from a D/s standpoint can help when in fact whatever the issue is, in actuality, is separate from the D/s. I still stand by my opinion that someone needs to be ready and willing on their own and show a serious attempt to heal from within.

 

[unfoundiamond]

I wanted to heal but was haunted untill he helped me,

This is an extension of a conversation from last night. Using this as the basis situation. Person A: Has
dealt with something in their past that now affects this person on a daily basis. Therapy has been used
as an attempt to deal with the issue, but has been unsuccessful. Traditional techniques have not aided
and as a result, Person A uses therapy time to toy with the therapist for lack of a better term, due to
the mistrust of therapists in general. As a result no progress has been made. Person B attempts to
help Person A where the therapist has not been able to using the trust and openness found in a D/s
relationship.

Here is where the question lies. Can the D/s relationship allow for breakthroughs for Person A. Is simply trust, caring, and knowledge enough to help this person get over what has affected for years? Would tapping into these areas they've suppressed through time, intent or shame help Person A to face something that would go untouched and/or unresolved? Can personal experience and insight fill in where conventional therapeutic training would be missing. Would this the best avenue to approach the
problem by breaking through barriers that would otherwise remain up? Can the trust Person A has in Person B be enough to facilitate the healing?

Or...can this lead to the possibility of furthering the damage. Can there be a form of transference onto Person B? Is it better to leave dealing with the psyche to those who have been trained to do so? Is the fact that Person A uses therapy time to misdirect the therapist a sign that Person a is not ready or prepared to actually deal with the issue? Does true healing come only from within? In attempting to purge this person of the inner demons, is there not a more likely chance of creating yet another issue? In essence forming a reliance on Person B's dominant nature to cope rather than to actually heal? Or worse yet, intensify the damage by not being trained in dealing with the mind?

I read this and instantly wanted to mention that therapy didnt for me and doesnt for most work unless the "therapist" be it a dom or not, IS TRUSTED.

I have to mention this, when I was working throught the pain and recurring nightmares of the rape, the person who counseled me was not a thrapist... He was my then partner... I suspect that the reason his counsel worked for me when nothing else did was because of the trust and faith I placed in him and his words, because he was a construction worker, not a therapist.

I am not saying this will work for everyone, I am sure there are horror stories from people allowing their mind to be molded by someone who has bad intentions...

this situation has to be judged on a case to case basis for best results.

 

[Homburg]

That was tasteless.

Thank you for recognising that. I appreciate it.

----

What I am asking is: with such a close connection, bond, etc. Could the Dominant not assist in getting the submissive to see the need for help by pushing past those barriers erected against years of self-coping, failed therapists and resultless attempts?
Acting as a tool..a starting pistol of sorts to get the ball rolling towards a need and/or desire to seriously seek out and engage in professional counciling?

This point continues to poke it's annoying finger into my ribs ever since I read this post.

Didja miss the post where I talked about getting MIS to find a new therapist? If you did, yeah, I was a motivating factor. Told her that she had things going on that I was just flat not qualified to deal with, and that she should seek out a new therapist. This was not an order. She decided on her own to do so, and I am quite proud that she did, given how much she feared returning to therapy.

 

[Netzach]

Thank you for recognising that. I appreciate it.

----



Didja miss the post where I talked about getting MIS to find a new therapist? If you did, yeah, I was a motivating factor. Told her that she had things going on that I was just flat not qualified to deal with, and that she should seek out a new therapist. This was not an order. She decided on her own to do so, and I am quite proud that she did, given how much she feared returning to therapy.

Crazy mundane normal ain't it?

 

[Homburg]

Crazy mundane normal ain't it?

You know us crazy M/s types. Always living life on the edge

Personally, I feel like I've been gypped. Somewhere along the lines I failed to get my magickal Dom Powers to heal, command the dead to rise, and all the rest of that shit we're supposed to be able to do.

I want to part the Red Sea too, dammit.

 

[EmpressFi]

I want to part the Red Sea too, dammit.

you mean you cant???

Geeeez.. wish I'd known that before I spent so much time getting to know you...

how are you with walkin on water?

 

[Homburg]

you mean you cant???

Geeeez.. wish I'd known that before I spent so much time getting to know you...

how are you with walkin on water?

I'm good for a little while, then I get wet *

* - "little while" refer to a miniscule picosecond of time before surface tension is breached by fat, hairy dude of the domly persuasion. But for a little while...

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I don't think because someone learns to open up and trust with the other person that trust would then be extended to the third person/therapist. Couldn't that relationship even possibly hinder the therapeutic relationship? If the pyl feels that there is someone who listens and understands would he/she then push even further from trusting the therapist? What if the pyl begins to feel that only someone who approaches from a D/s standpoint can help when in fact whatever the issue is, in actuality, is separate from the D/s. I still stand by my opinion that someone needs to be ready and willing on their own and show a serious attempt to heal from within.

I find M/s intensely therapeutic and it has become intrinsic to my emotional wellbeing. I trust my Master a great deal more than any other (vanilla) guy I've dated, simply because my life is often literally in his hands. When that level of trust is present, the fear of talking about emotionally difficult subjects or of confessing my thoughts and fears to him really becomes a moot issue.

I can see that trust leading to someone opening up to a dominant. My own Master has opened up to me a lot but once that barrier is down and a person is in a place where they feel ready and able to talk, that's when their SO should raise their hands and say 'I am not equipped to deal with this but I will do whatever it takes to help you find someone who is.'

Also, I know a few cases where a loving PYL has tried to help a pyl work through personal issues and it has backfired spectacularly. That's when people start blaming the PYL for opening up their can of worms and poking their finger into it. If you think a therapist is doing more harm than good, you get another therapist. If you think your PYL has tried to 'help' you and has in fact made your anxiety/phobia/depression/whatever worse then where does that leave the couple? Trust is corroded and things turn sour.

PYLs really do need to know their limits. It's natural to want to help someone you deeply care for and as a pyl, it's natural to let your PYL assume that role. Personal psychological problems/illness though, should not fall under the BDSM umbrella. There are always going to be personal issues and battles that are separate from any D/s dynamic and separate is what they should remain.

 

[chocolategirl]

.....