Childhood Question

[Homburg]

Oh I knew you weren't needling me.

*hmm needles*

Um, where were we? Anyway, thanks for pointing it out. That gave me a chance to fix my little typo. I shouldn't post when I'm sick and all that.

Needles

Nope, wasn't making that sort of comment. Not as often as I put on my "Captian Typo!" costume and wrong the right typings of my posts everywhere.

 

[elizabeth22673]

this is just me...


but when i was growing up, my parents hardly noticed me and didn't want me..i was the last of many children and was reminded how i wasn't planned.... and i don't remember them reading to me, hugging me, me sitting on their lap....they did not tell me they loved me...and i remember one time when i was a teenager i tried to hug my mom cause i needed her so badly and she had limp arms to the side...i'll never forget it. ......i was alone and craved love so badly that it hurt. i'm not saying this to make anyone feel sorry for me, but that is just how it was.

so when I have my DaddyDom to shower me with attention and help me be a good person and love me no matter what...it awakens something inside me that hasn't been touched and feels extremely good.


and if anyone makes shit of this post, i'll die. cause it's truth.

 

[FurryFury]

I think that is a very touching and brave post.

 

[myinnerslut]

i, for one, think it was brave of you for sharing that. thank you.

 

[the_pet]

Basically, I have just one question: As a Dom or Sub, what do you feel your adult, BDSM lifestyle gives you that was missing (and was desperately desired) from your childhood? OR alternately, as a Dom or Sub what do you feel that you got in your childhood that you wish to have or recapture by way of your adult, BDSM lifestyle?

fills nothing that was missing nor do i wish to recapture anything....am i a BDSM product of my childhood.....the therapists are still out on that one

pm me if you'd like to to delve deeper but that's all i'm saying publicly

pet

 

[elizabeth22673]

thank you....you wouldn't mind un-quoting my post JUST IN CASE i feel the need to delete

but i do appreciate your kind words...thanks to you both

 

[myinnerslut]

thank you
*snip*

absolutly, ill do it right now

 

[Netzach]

Responsibility, control, determination.

Conversely, an arena to act out, to be more primal, to do things that aren't necessarily smart or cool or proof of my intellect, which was of monolithic importance in my childhood.

A chance to take risks - stupid teenage risk taking was delayed and never really took place in my life.

 

[elizabeth22673]

absolutly, ill do it right now

thanks...hopefully i'll be brave and leave it up. but just in case

(((((((((myinnerslut)))))))))

 

[FurryFury]

Needles

Nope, wasn't making that sort of comment. Not as often as I put on my "Captian Typo!" costume and wrong the right typings of my posts everywhere.

LOL!

 

[graceanne]

elizabeth - when I was a child i asked my mom why she loved my sister more than me and she told me that my sister was more lovable. I'll guarantee we aren't the only ones on this forum with stories like that - no one is gonna publicly say anything, and only trolls will say something in PM.

 

[elizabeth22673]

oh lord graceanne.....how could a parent say such a thing to a child. children need to know they are cherished...
i look at my child now and think to myself if anyone ANYONE hurts him like that emotionally I will kick their ass

 

[Homburg]

Responsibility, control, determination.

Conversely, an arena to act out, to be more primal, to do things that aren't necessarily smart or cool or proof of my intellect, which was of monolithic importance in my childhood.

A chance to take risks - stupid teenage risk taking was delayed and never really took place in my life.

Jesus, get outta my head. I was seriously thinking just this, and was going to add it in.

Some portion of this is somehow making up for my fuck-all dull teenage years.

The primal part I've always been in touch with, but BDSM does allow me to let the Beast out to play just a bit. Still on a leash, sure, but it's a longer one.

I've always thought that I was honest with myself like I was with others. Nowadays, I really am as self-honest as I always claimed to be. Doesn't do good things for my nice-guy rep (not that I ever had one of those), but it does grant an amazing amount of piece of mind.

 

[snowy ciara]

Oh I knew you weren't needling me.

*hmm needles*

Um, where were we? Anyway, thanks for pointing it out. That gave me a chance to fix my little typo. I shouldn't post when I'm sick and all that.

Yes you should! My "sick" postings have been cracking people up all day! Prednisone and Dayquil ought to be illegal!

 

[3113]

And on top of that I have the old "make me do what I want so I don't have to feel guilty about it" thing going. I was raised by a mother who felt guilty for her own sexual desires and in a religion where masturbation and sexual adventurousness are frowned apon.

From what's been said, echoing this sentiment, it would seem that this is one of the few connections to childhood that some BDSM adults have. That it gives them the freedom and release for their sexual needs that their childhood environment restricted.

And I'd certainly be interested in any further observations you'd feel comfortable discussing here or by way of PM.

 

[3113]

so when I have my DaddyDom to shower me with attention and help me be a good person and love me no matter what...it awakens something inside me that hasn't been touched and feels extremely good.

and if anyone makes shit of this post, i'll die. cause it's truth.

I wouldn't dream of it. Thank you so much for sharing that, and I, too, think it was enormously brave of you. In fact, I'm really humbled by the courage I'm seeing in a lot of these posts. I don't know that I could re-face and post such reflections.

And I am finding them very insightful. Understand, I'm not expecting to discover some missing link or single root cause. Like said before, I think that's rubbish. But we all enter into relationships hoping to fill an empty spot, and usually that empty spot was created in childhood. It's helpful to me, in trying to be fair and true and realistic in writing about BDSM to know what such empty spots might be and how they might have come to be.

Conversely, an arena to act out, to be more primal, to do things that aren't necessarily smart or cool or proof of my intellect, which was of monolithic importance in my childhood.

A chance to take risks - stupid teenage risk taking was delayed and never really took place in my life.

Jesus, get outta my head. I was seriously thinking just this, and was going to add it in.

Some portion of this is somehow making up for my fuck-all dull teenage years.

This is a really interesting contrast to the other observations about restrictions.

 

[Homburg]

This is a really interesting contrast to the other observations about restrictions.

The more I reflect, the more I see that restriction as an issue. Probably a good one though.

As I've mentioned in an older thread, my paternal grandfather was a vicious, sadistic, abusive bastard. Not a Dom, just a monster. He did things to my father that would've gotten him arrested and the key thrown away had they happened today. Hell, some of them were bad enough that he would've been locked up had the sheriff known about it back then. Just a vile, mean old man, especially when drunk.

I figure I inherited part of that. I'm a LOT like my grandad physically. Build-wise, we're a carbon copies. Same sort of proportions and size (though he was even bigger than I am by about 4-5" of height and proportionate weight difference). He was a big, strong, hairy beast just like me. And we have something of a similar temperment. To be frank, there are more similarities between he and I than I am comfortable with. And one of those similarities is that I am a sadistic bastard.

Fortunately for me, my father is an amazing man, and broke the cycle of abuse. I was spanked once as a young child, and don't even remember it, and my dad talks to this day about how badly it bothered him to do it. Fortunately for him, one spanking was apparently all I ever needed. I learned control from my dad (who is still better controlled than I am, even though he has a whole lot of scary inside him as well).

So I look at myself in the mirror and see shades of that evil old bastard looking back at me. I hear him in my voice when one of my kids crosses the line and irritates me. My eldest son will tick me off, and it's, "What are you doin', boy?" said with that same fucking inflection that he used. It bothers me deeply.

The restriction my mother imposed on me, and my father illustrated with his own behaviour, was probably a damned good thing. The few times in my life that I've snapped have resulted in someone getting mauled. And, worst of all, I was totally cold the whole time, just like the Old Man. He could break a man, stomp him bloody while he was down, and never show a bit of anger. Scares me to know that I'm like that.

So while I'm not really cool with the fucked-up guilt/repression towards sex that my mom saddled me with (and I am acting out against with my lifestyle), those restrictions are what caused me to build the self-control that keeps my inner vicious fucking sadistic bastard in check. So my heartfelt thanks to my mom and dad, even if I despised the repression at times.

 

[Netzach]

I had a sheltered, monitored childhood - insane measures must be taken because something horrible was about to happen. I was going to be stolen, killed, die in an accident, there will be a fire a flood, an act of God, so risks must never be taken.

I remember being a kid my grandmother constantly telling my mother "don't let her run." Not to run, not to climb, not to do anything because something horrible would happen.

That I still generally don't believe it is a minor miracle and a testament to how good schooling can save someone from a stupid home life.

To say I felt a lack of control over practical day to day matters is an understatement. Also I had to watch my mother, who is essentially a submissive person full stop, in action, and I have to say I'm still angry at her. Angry that she'd show ineffectiveness and deference, I'm angry that she STILL lives two blocks from her mother and allows her mother's problems to rule her life and encroach - at least now that the woman IS actually seventy eight it makes some sense - but she has spent life as what I see as more or less a hostage to the terrible things that would happen if someone did other than what my grandma wanted. She says she never dated till I was eight because of me, but I think she never did because of her parents. She couldn't work till I was eight or nine because my grandmother refused to watch me "because she might faint."

I've asked my mom if she'd ever fainted. Never yet. I feel bad for my mom, a lifetime of palpitations, aborted shopping trips, madness. Someone who could have been helped by modern therapy at any rate, some of the new drugs, but of course will never touch them.

So, when it comes to other people controlling me, it's been pretty much a constant stream of fuck no. BTDT. I did learn some neat mental jiu jitsu techniques from them all, though. I can do really unhealthy control beautifully if I want, and sometimes with the right emotional masochist I DO want.

I do think I was born like this though. I mean the same situation could have spun so many ways, but I do think that my reaction is a product of the unique mix of gene and chemical that's me. Submission isn't really hot to me. It's hot with a certain person in a certain context, but it only goes so far for me - I never sat around thinking about it, fantasizing about it, wishing for it for a moment. Dominance? Yes. I wanted the prince to get me out of the tower and then throw himself to my feet, not sweep me away in his arms and take away the responsibilities.

I really feel myself, the most actualized, the most authentic version of myself with a lover who has said with his submission and surrender "You're not what they told you you were - helpless, vulnerable, unable to make the right choice. I believe in your power, your decision, your will." I believe in them too, now, but it really tickles the naughty spots when someone else wants to demo it.

This makes it sound like my being D is just a litany of defensive measures, but it's more meant to illustrate how much a certain temprement can really be frustrated, how stunted a person like me is by the time they actually reach maturity and have to figure out what they DO want their life to look like. Having no idea what you actually like or want when you are 18 is as scary a prospect as thinking you've got it all worked out. I think that people often see submission as this liberation, but I think it's important to look at the other side of it too. For me, it is just as much about re-writing the scripts I learned, about re-inventing and re-programming my own relationship to the notion of power.

 

[Homburg]

I do think I was born like this though. I mean the same situation could have spun so many ways, but I do think that my reaction is a product of the unique mix of gene and chemical that's me.

I agree. It bothers me to think that, but only because I wonder if any of my kids will express my darker tendencies, and what I will have to do to contain those tendencies if they do express.

Do you find any similarities between yourself and your domineering grandmother?

 

[Netzach]

I agree. It bothers me to think that, but only because I wonder if any of my kids will express my darker tendencies, and what I will have to do to contain those tendencies if they do express.

Do you find any similarities between yourself and your domineering grandmother?

All the fucking time. Amazing isn't it? I think I've managed to channel her worst into something more aggressive-aggressive and less passive aggressive. Dunno if that's an improvement, but I think it is.

I also think it's very healthy that I realize that I'm pretty much self-focused. Not a narcissist completely oblivious to all others, but one for whom if it's you or me, it's me, no hard feelings. I think the world takes both kinds. I'm very good with other people's stuff in an analytical and cool way.

The problem is that I was raised by two other generations of narcissists who felt so much guilt about being the way I am in terms of self-focus that they completely made everyone they professed to care about nuts.

Basically, I'm like her a lot. Without the guilt and the pretense that it's all about you. It's about me, not that you suck or anything, and I'm not going to apologize for that, but if you need to vent I really will listen and I really will care, just not to the point where I make myself sick or lose myself in your needs.

You have to also understand though that my mother would literally say things to me like "I'm Stella Dallas" or "I'm Mildred and you're Vita" - I am not unappreciative of all the things my mother gave up so that I could have an education, but I also was made keenly aware that she's never been entirely happy with the choice. It doesn't lend someone a good road map for making parental sacrifices. It doesn't paint the notion of giving up things for other people as a happy worthwhile or excusable one, and it's a picture I rejected for myself.

I'm also different from her in a lot of ways. I don't think that if I did go and have children they'd have to be the kind who'd kick bunnies simply because of genetics, I think that things do smooth out with parenting that shepherds people away from the messed up stuff.

If I was like her I'd still be lying around playing the "I'm sick" card when I've been in remission for over a year, or asking M how he could be mad at a sick woman if he looked at me the wrong way. I have to be on guard not to manipulate, but I'll never play the weakness card to do it, it's just NOT in my intestines to do it.

 

[graceanne]

I do think I was born like this though. I mean the same situation could have spun so many ways, but I do think that my reaction is a product of the unique mix of gene and chemical that's me. Submission isn't really hot to me. It's hot with a certain person in a certain context, but it only goes so far for me.

If anything is proof that we're at least born predisposed to the way we are, it's that I'm a sub and you're a domme. As uncaring as my mother was personally to me, she was rabid about anyone else being around. She was terrified that my sister or I would be molested. We were not allowed to have male baby sitters, or spend the night at friends houses who had dads. I was six (I think) the first time I was told that all men wanted one thing, and that was sex. And she didn't mean when I got older. When I was 8 I was warned not to allow men to full on hug me, cause all they really wanted was to press my breasts (yes I had breasts at 8) into their chest. My sister and I were not allowed to leave the house without her, for fear we'd be raped. We were not allowed to spend the night with our male cousins, for fear we'd be raped. . . you get the point.

 

[Homburg]

All the fucking time. Amazing isn't it? I think I've managed to channel her worst into something more aggressive-aggressive and less passive aggressive. Dunno if that's an improvement, but I think it is.

I also think it's very healthy that I realize that I'm pretty much self-focused. Not a narcissist completely oblivious to all others, but one for whom if it's you or me, it's me, no hard feelings. I think the world takes both kinds. I'm very good with other people's stuff in an analytical and cool way.

The problem is that I was raised by two other generations of narcissists who felt so much guilt about being the way I am in terms of self-focus that they completely made everyone they professed to care about nuts.

Basically, I'm like her a lot. Without the guilt and the pretense that it's all about you. It's about me, not that you suck or anything, and I'm not going to apologize for that, but if you need to vent I really will listen and I really will care, just not to the point where I make myself sick or lose myself in your needs.

I figured as much from the description, but wanted to make sure. I like to think that I'm a healthier version of the old bastard. I have to be, as I've never shot at my kids, or any of the other fucked up shit granddad did.

It's still weird to see those features in me. I really disliked him badly.


ETA:

I'm also different from her in a lot of ways. I don't think that if I did go and have children they'd have to be the kind who'd kick bunnies simply because of genetics, I think that things do smooth out with parenting that shepherds people away from the messed up stuff. Hope that eases a little of your worry.

Yeah, and looking at my dad, my cousins, and myself helps. I don' tthink that I've spawned monsters. I just think that I need to watch them.

 

[Netzach]

If anything is proof that we're at least born predisposed to the way we are, it's that I'm a sub and you're a domme. As uncaring as my mother was personally to me, she was rabid about anyone else being around. She was terrified that my sister or I would be molested. We were not allowed to have male baby sitters, or spend the night at friends houses who had dads. I was six (I think) the first time I was told that all men wanted one thing, and that was sex. And she didn't mean when I got older. When I was 8 I was warned not to allow men to full on hug me, cause all they really wanted was to press my breasts (yes I had breasts at 8) into their chest. My sister and I were not allowed to leave the house without her, for fear we'd be raped. We were not allowed to spend the night with our male cousins, for fear we'd be raped. . . you get the point.

Yeah, wow. That's a whole similar can of crawlies isn't it? And how different we are. I think it's one of the things that still awes me about Kinsey, his reverence for the spectrum of human sexuality. I think it's worth looking at this stuff though - which often has more to say than "I just was born like this" but obviously cannot be summed up with "mom fucked me up."

 

[graceanne]

Yeah, wow. That's a whole similar can of crawlies isn't it? And how different we are. I think it's one of the things that still awes me about Kinsey, his reverence for the spectrum of human sexuality. I think it's worth looking at this stuff though - which often has more to say than "I just was born like this" but obviously cannot be summed up with "mom fucked me up."

LOL Yeah. So many people spend tons of time on the nature vs nurture thing, but it's not a vs thing it's an and thing. It's nature AND nurture. I was born submissive, and my mom fucked me up. LOL Oh, well. Shit happens.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I can see echoes of my childhood in my adult relationships and in my kink.

I grew up in a household where even though my father was terminally feckless and unfaithful to my mother, his word was law. He was (and still is) a drunk, sporadically employed, completely devoid of purpose but his word was law. Our household was governed by religious 'principles' and to disregard them was to offend God. I was spanked frequently for transgressions and for serious misdemeanours there was the heel of Mum's slipper. Mum was quite domineering in her way, partly because Dad never sought to taint his 'nice guy' image by handing out discipline to my sister and I. Even now he is incapable of giving advice or being a parent that can be leaned on in any way. He lives mostly in Spain and I haven't seen him in a long time. I don't even get a birthday or Christmas card from the man. When I marry I doubt that he'll show up, even if only to give me away. It angers me sometimes but has been my status quo for too long to cause me pain.

I never enjoyed being spanked as a child and frequently led Mum a chase around the house. She domineered over my sister and I but was completely subservient to our father. It was quite a contrast and one I puzzled over for much of my childhood. I often wished I was a boy because I got the impression that boys could do what they liked. Possibly this led to my first sexual encounter and longterm relationship being with a fellow pupil at my girls' school.

I did feel comforted in a backhanded fashion by having strict boundaries and clearly defined routes to both approval and the dog house. Mum was not tactile and was the only person I ever met who could not hug. She put her arms around us occasionally but there was no warmth, no comfort or affection. It sounds strange perhaps but there it is. My maternal grandmother was worse. She never showed affection of any description. Mum never once said 'I love you.' or 'I am proud of you.' I know that she did and she was but it was not in her to vocalise it in any way. Like elizabeth22673, when Master is proud of me and says so, when he expresses his love vocally and showers me with hugs and kisses, a deep void in me is temporarily filled.

I find spanking/impactplay intensely therapeutic and have been known to take a wooden spoon to my own behind when single or alone and under stress. It atones completely and Master and I leave behind every dispute and disappointment without letting it cloud future issues between us. I think that's a rare and special thing in a LTR. I love the control that he has over me and see it very much as an expression of love as I saw Mum not allowing us beyond the end of the street as an expression of love because those were the only expressions we got.

A note about Mum. My parents split when I was 8 (best thing they ever did) and Mum knew by the time I was 12 that she would succumb to a debilitating and terminal illness similar to alzheimers. My grandfather died the year I was born, he was only in his early forties so Mum had no idea how limited her time was as our sole parent. Because of this she never coddled us and always pushed us towards independence. She was determined that we would be able to cope alone if necessary and on that level she did a very good job, though it may seem cold to some people.

Sorry if that rambled a bit.