Christianity - Rewiring my Brain

[boomer177]

Left web site due to censored messages by chargergirl

PM'ed the following to the poster:

"Please see my 'PM Asshattery' post at http://forum.literotica.com/showpost...postcount=2982, and be in touch as to what occurred.

"This sounds like a matter that may well--or, at least, should--be of concern to us all."

 

[Nathan_Brazil]

Sorry. Didn't read entire thread.

Don't know if anyone said this...

All forms of Christian thought are not from the Evangelical wing. Some of the mainline groups accept science and don't claim to know all the answers.

UCC, Episcopalian, DOC...

All positive places. Wiki them.

 

[1sickbastard]

A few thoughts, not many of which I can claim as original:
1) Human evolution, particularly as a cognitive, self aware social critter, physically predisposes H. sapiens to religion, much in the same way our evolution physically predisposes H. sapiens to high fat, high sugar, high calorie foodstuffs. Basically, religion is the intellectual equivalent to junk food. This is why we have megachurches and why, even though it's better for us to eat loads of fresh foods, veggies & whole grains, we'll usually pick a cheeseburger over a plate of braised brussel sprouts.
2) Religion serves to limit whatever one conceives about "god".
3) Education, developing critical thinking, and reason/logic is and always has been an anathema to religion.

Fuck, now I wanna cheeseburger...

 

[Hard_Rom]

How you think is of less importance than how you act. I am an atheist yet admire the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth. Treat others as you wish to be treated and charity in thought and word is the best virtue. No need to go complicating a nice simple philosophy with ideas of ultimate creator. The actual recorded words of Jesus would probably only fill one page in the bible. The rest is hearsay and opinion. Supposedly Mary saw Jesus resurrected. There is no Book of Mary so no first hand witness accounts.

 

[1sickbastard]

How you think is of less importance than how you act. I am an atheist yet admire the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth. Treat others as you wish to be treated and charity in thought and word is the best virtue. No need to go complicating a nice simple philosophy with ideas of ultimate creator. The actual recorded words of Jesus would probably only fill one page in the bible. The rest is hearsay and opinion. Supposedly Mary saw Jesus resurrected. There is no Book of Mary so no first hand witness accounts.

There was, allegedly, a Gospel of Mary. There was also a Gospel of Judas Iscariot, and an Infancy Gospel, not to mention an Epistle written by Jesus. However, none of these (or some 36 other books contemporary to the canonical New Testament) made it into the 'bible'. Indeed, many of these books were considered heresy and thus, treason, after Christianity became the state religion of the Empire (Rome and it's successor, Byzantium).

 

[suckonsimon]

A few thoughts, not many of which I can claim as original:
1) Human evolution, particularly as a cognitive, self aware social critter, physically predisposes H. sapiens to religion, much in the same way our evolution physically predisposes H. sapiens to high fat, high sugar, high calorie foodstuffs. Basically, religion is the intellectual equivalent to junk food. This is why we have megachurches and why, even though it's better for us to eat loads of fresh foods, veggies & whole grains, we'll usually pick a cheeseburger over a plate of braised brussel sprouts.
2) Religion serves to limit whatever one conceives about "god".
3) Education, developing critical thinking, and reason/logic is and always has been an anathema to religion.

Fuck, now I wanna cheeseburger...

Reading this I'm astounded by how closed-minded and prejudiced it is, and how ill-informed especially as regards 3). How can a free-thinker be that mistaken?

Heck I'll go have my fresh fruit and yoghurt drizzled with honey like good Christians do ...

 

[GiggLeGasm]

Reading this I'm astounded by how closed-minded and prejudiced it is, and how ill-informed especially as regards 3). How can a free-thinker be that mistaken?

Heck I'll go have my fresh fruit and yoghurt drizzled with honey like good Christians do ...

What do you mean by closed minded and prejudiced? I can't say that I agree 100%; but I don't find it without merit as a relevant viewpoint. Historically, there have been many cultures who have been told what to think about god by their religious leaders. As a Catholic, there are many rhythms of nature that I am discouraged from investigating.
I also see how many people are addicted to religion to the extent that they can't see or hear options other than prayer. It puzzles me a bit. As a nurse, I have days where I struggle with patient education. "You're in heart failure because you don't move and you're living on fried chicken." and the response is.. "honey.. I only eat fried chicken at church.. God wouldn't cause my heart failure."
I guess what I'm saying is.. even though it hasn't been the path I've chosen for myself, I deal with people who could be described in the above post.

 

[suckonsimon]

I'm aware, GG, that a big part of what lies behind my response just now is the huge difference between the 'mainstream' expressions of Christian faith in much of Europe, as compared with some of the predominating expressions of faith in the USA at present. I guess it was the point he made about education that really got me. Around where I live, so many of the really good schools and also our local 'world class' university, namely Durham, were founded by people of faith whose faith inspired them to pursue knowledge for themselves and for others. Perhaps that is a very English feature - the link between church and education, going back centuries and still very alive.

As happens, the cleric who did all the groundwork for founding Durham University [his passion was to bring first class university education to the North as the only English universities at the time were Oxford and Cambridge] - this guy was also passionate about the abolition of slavery and his personal involvement with the movement was the founding of a university in Freetown, Sierra Leone. His conviction - inspired by his faith - was that shipping freed slaves back to West Africa was no freedom for them without the opportunity of having an education when they got there. The place is still thriving. But this is just one instance of the thousands which illustrate the way faith has inspired people to expand their minds. That has been my own personal story certainly.

As to the poster's point 2): again I'm reflecting on my own experience: the way the person of Jesus has got to me, is that he has opened me up to the huge possibilities of what God and Life and the Universe are about and whether the good has the last word and the underlying causes of malaise and conflict and whether there can be redemption and on I could go! So to read someone informing us that religion limits a conception of 'god' - well I had to post a gut response.

Hey. I don't find it too much fun to discuss these things online - so different from person to person or group debate which can be so invigorating. So please allow me not necessarily to stay with the thread.

... this time it's salmon and salad ...

 

[Eilan]

What do you mean by closed minded and prejudiced? <snip>

The problem is that some people in this thread don't have any experience with American Evangelicalism yet feel the need to mansplain Christianity to us.

 

[NightL]

braised brussel sprouts

is steamed Christianity healthy?

 

[suckonsimon]

The problem is that some people in this thread don't have any experience with American Evangelicalism yet feel the need to mansplain Christianity to us.

Guilty as charged Eilan, but I'm hoping it's not a problem; just a broadening out a bit. After all the thread has "Christianity" in the dock. If it had "American Evangelicalism" in the dock I would be steering well clear.

... aren't steamed carrots so much tastier than boiled ones ...

 

[Messier82]

A few thoughts, not many of which I can claim as original:
1) Human evolution, particularly as a cognitive, self aware social critter, physically predisposes H. sapiens to religion,

I really don't believe you can be 'physically predisposed' to a philosophical viewpoint.

much in the same way our evolution physically predisposes H. sapiens to high fat, high sugar, high calorie foodstuffs.

These are a product of the 20th and 21st century "Food industry", so that's 100 years out of an approximate 3,200,000 year evolutionary history (assuming we take Lucy as the earliest hominid ancestor. Again, no "evolutionary predisposition". You may as well say we're evolutionarily predisposed to Social Media addiction.

 

[GiggLeGasm]

ah.. I wasn't aware that religious persecution was an American thing. I should pull my children from their fine Jesuit institution for higher learning.. scholarships be damned.

Just kidding really. My middle son is having too much fun trying to work "evolution" into each of his theology papers. It can be quite a challenge!

 

[suckonsimon]

ah.. I wasn't aware that religious persecution was an American thing. I should pull my children from their fine Jesuit institution for higher learning.. scholarships be damned.

Just kidding really. My middle son is having too much fun trying to work "evolution" into each of his theology papers. It can be quite a challenge!

Has he played with the evolution of thought and of ethic suggested in Jesus' repeated refrain, "You have heard that it was said to those in ancient times ... but I say to you ..."? I like the progression - and permission to progress - hinted there in Matthew 5.

... but, regression with food intake: fish n chips tonight ...

 

[MaryanneB]

Ok, this thread has been going for awhile and I thought I'd just add a little to it.
This could be a study in how deep the feelings are when trligion is taught and drummed into a child.
I have a very dear friend who battles heavy mental illness and had a complete breakdown 2 months ago. Much of the problems she faces with presonality processes are clouded with abuse as a child but also a Catholic school education that injected guilt and a sense of duty into every fiber.
After this collapse she was hospitalized and then began an outpatient program. I told her to take a break from the intensity of Mass and rosaries until she had some issues addressed. She was doing fine until she decided to go back to Mass. She said she entered the church and felt a cloak of depression fall over her and all the success of the therapy left her with a feeling of nausea and fear.
Just the act of walking into the church brought back all the feelings that were instilled when she was a child.
Religion can be another organ in our bodies and one that is placed to control and manipulate. No wonder we have such a problem with the actions of the religious.

 

[GiggLeGasm]

1) Human evolution, particularly as a cognitive, self aware social critter, physically predisposes H. sapiens to religion, much in the same way our evolution physically predisposes H. sapiens to high fat, high sugar, high calorie foodstuffs...[/QUOTE]

He actually enjoys studying multiple religions and I believe he's fortunate to be allowed to explore both their shared concepts and their fundamental differences. As for specific scripture, my discussions with him are pretty broad and I don't know that I'd recall, other than to say that I've read his analysis of Genesis and found it quite thought provoking.

 

[Kinky_babygirl]

Man....this resonates with me so much. I was extremely religious growing up. Now that I'm exploring and accepting my kinky side, being more open about sex and things in general...I am having the hardest time reconciling all that with my ideas about God. It was an intense struggle in the beginning just to even let myself be open to things. There are no easy answers, but with all that's in me I hope to find something to ease my mind and relieve some of that suffering.

 

[Que]

I really don't believe you can be 'physically predisposed' to a philosophical viewpoint.



These are a product of the 20th and 21st century "Food industry", so that's 100 years out of an approximate 3,200,000 year evolutionary history (assuming we take Lucy as the earliest hominid ancestor. Again, no "evolutionary predisposition". You may as well say we're evolutionarily predisposed to Social Media addiction.

It may well be that it's only in the last hundred years that the food industry has capitalized on that but we are definitely animals designed to seek oit those things. When high fat high sugar spurces were labor intensive this was not a problem. We have a sweet tooth for a specific reason. It is so that our aste buds can tell us which foods are going to yield the highest level of calories and hence energy. Humans are otherwise not very good hunters and foragers. At least not until we invented guns tractors and grocery stores.

The cravings for fat and sugar wete not invented by the food industry the food industry just invented ways to deliver those in bulk, affordably.

 

[sybarite_1]

In India, the sex acts are carved into the outer temple walls.
Using fear to control is immature.

 

[Hypoxia]

A person with only one deity must be a bit impoverished.

And they're an atheist for all deities except their lone god.

I carve a few new gods every morning; I stay in control.

 

[Athalia]

A few thoughts, not many of which I can claim as original:
1) Human evolution, particularly as a cognitive, self aware social critter, physically predisposes H. sapiens to religion, much in the same way our evolution physically predisposes H. sapiens to high fat, high sugar, high calorie foodstuffs. Basically, religion is the intellectual equivalent to junk food. This is why we have megachurches and why, even though it's better for us to eat loads of fresh foods, veggies & whole grains, we'll usually pick a cheeseburger over a plate of braised brussel sprouts.

I would say rather that evolution predisposes people to religion due to our need to discern patterns and gather meaning from them. When the patterns don't make sense to us, we try to impose a different pattern. We err when we mistake false patterns for true ones.

3) Education, developing critical thinking, and reason/logic is and always has been an anathema to religion.

Only in a narrow definition of religion, I'd think. Those things are anathema to dogma, not religion. We should use, and must use, critical thinking and reason/logic to help us determine our relationship to the universe and our moral obligations to our fellow humans, which for many of us is a definition of religion.

 

[Hypoxia]

I would say rather that evolution predisposes people to religion due to our need to discern patterns and gather meaning from them. When the patterns don't make sense to us, we try to impose a different pattern. We err when we mistake false patterns for true ones.

Some people are also physically predisposed to suffer religious ecstasy. Plug that into our imperfect pattern-recognition software and we get religion.

There's more, of course, mainly community. Religion divides US from THEM, the faithful from the faithless. We support US, and fear and fight THEM, the Satanic swine! Monotheism dictates here -- follow the dogma, or else. If you don't worship OUR specific deity with OUR rituals then you are the enemy, fair game for slaughter, enslavement, whatever.

A religion is a network of people who agree not to disagree too much about certain things decided by Greater Forces. Totalitarian politics is religious. Our economic systems are religious. Fans are religious flocks.

We should use, and must use, critical thinking and reason/logic to help us determine our relationship to the universe and our moral obligations to our fellow humans, which for many of us is a definition of religion.

Ancient local philosophies do not describe the universe very accurately -- they don't map-onto reality -- and religious morality seems squishy at best, with little commonality across the rule-sets.

I distinguish between Knowledge Systems, whose assertions can be tested, and Belief Systems, whose precepts must be accepted without testing. Belief Systems tend to fragment, spinning-off sects and heresies -- look at all that's evolved from ancient Abrahamic myth -- that tend to interact violently. Knowledge Systems tend to coalesce on workable explanations. Thus the concept of Evolution, the survival of change over time, began in geology, is now the foundation of biology, and extends to astronomy, sociology, and other fields. Truth comes together. Fantasy flies apart.

 

[Eilan]

Bumping for the lovely Lutheran woman and her evangelical husband who called me a "piece of shit cunt" on a friend's Facebook timeline after I called the husband out on his xenophobia. So glad she and her husband are forgiven.

Good thing I'm not spending an afterlife with people like them and my mother-in-law.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Bumping for the lovely Lutheran woman and her evangelical husband who called me a "piece of shit cunt" on a friend's Facebook timeline after I called the husband out on his xenophobia. So glad she and her husband are forgiven.

Good thing I'm not spending an afterlife with people like them and my mother-in-law.

I recently had to break off with an old friend because she's taken to uncritically spreading propaganda about how Syrian refugees are all rapists slavering after white women, as well as anti-PP fabrications. Breaks my heart - she's fun to be around, she's been there for me several times when I needed a friend, but the James Dobson brand of Christianity has eaten her brain.

I've tried talking to her about it, pointing out that her "source" is an outright white supremacist site, but there's no reaching her. I feel like a shitty friend for walking away, because she's always been kind to me. But what do you do when somebody you love has chosen to spread the sort of lies that get people killed?

#notallChristians, mind; I have plenty of Christian friends who are vocal supporters of PP and opponents of racism. But that particular branch is simply poisonous :-/

Here's an interesting experiment: a couple of TV presenters took a Bible, highlighted some of the less fashionable passages, slipped it into a "Holy Quran" cover and asked people for their reactions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEnWw_lH4tQ&feature=youtu.be

 

[Blase]

#notallChristians, mind; I have plenty of Christian friends who are vocal supporters of PP and opponents of racism. But that particular branch is simply poisonous.

I looked up PP and found a page full of things that it can be used to abbreviate, from plasma protein to Party Poker. What are you using it for?