Civility. Where has it gone?

[FataMorgana]

I do miss a nice bit of harmless road rage. Gone are the days if someone cut you up you'd give them the finger or wanker sign, or if feeling particularly feisty, bang your horn repeatedly and mouth TWAT in your mirror. Nowadays they'll follow you, run you off the road and stab you to death and leave you lying by the roadside in a pool of blood. Took all the fun out of it the touchy bastards.

 

[IrishStarlight]

Civility... I think lots of people are just angry.. angry at the world angry at themselves.. its a shame because little moments of kindness to each other especially among strangers is beautiful. Sometimes it's a generational thing young people with seemingly no care for anyone but themselves but I've also been pushed out of the way by grumpy little old ladies too so who knows? Lol I think though kindness really matters and it's up to each of us to keep that going as much as we can.. small acts that are healing to yourself as well.. so basically just don't be a dick..

Small Kindnesses
Danusha Laméris​

I’ve been thinking about the way, when you walk
down a crowded aisle, people pull in their legs
to let you by. Or how strangers still say “bless you”
when someone sneezes, a leftover
from the Bubonic plague. “Don’t die,” we are saying.
And sometimes, when you spill lemons
from your grocery bag, someone else will help you
pick them up. Mostly, we don’t want to harm each other.
We want to be handed our cup of coffee hot,
and to say thank you to the person handing it. To smile
at them and for them to smile back. For the waitress
to call us honey when she sets down the bowl of clam chowder,
and for the driver in the red pick-up truck to let us pass.
We have so little of each other, now. So far
from tribe and fire. Only these brief moments of exchange.
What if they are the true dwelling of the holy, these
fleeting temples we make together when we say, “Here,
have my seat,” “Go ahead — you first,” “I like your hat.”

 

[Eyewitness]

Glad to report that civility is alive and well in rural Ireland, traveling along the small country lanes it is almost complusory to wave and say hello to passing strangers. I suppose that’s why visitors remark on our friendly nature. Ireland - the land of a thousand welcomes.

 

[stickygirl]

We're group animals that thrive on constant face-to-face interactions, with touch and even shaking hands - what happened to that convention ( covid )? Casual chats with strangers in a public place used to be normal, but try it now and people think you're weird, so you don't try again.

Every day we're peppered with micro aggressions that build up and it seems only a kindness can undo it.

I blame social media though I'm a child of the generation that grew up with the internet. Covid didn't help either and I've heard from my teaching friends who see a generation of primary school kids who've never learned the rules of mixing.

I'm not comfortable mixing casually but my mother made me do it: dragging me to friends birthday parties when I just wanted to read a book. I learned how to put on my 'interested face' in meetings, rather than fiddle with a phone - something I find incredibly rude.

 

[FataMorgana]

Glad to report that civility is alive and well in rural Ireland, traveling along the small country lanes it is almost complusory to wave and say hello to passing strangers. I suppose that’s why visitors remark on our friendly nature. Ireland - the land of a thousand welcomes.

What I remember about the roads in rural Ireland were loads of dead crows.

But yes, lovely folk. And white puddings.

 

[Eyewitness]

What I remember about the roads in rural Ireland were loads of dead crows.

But yes, lovely folk. And white puddings.

Never saw a dead crow on the roadside, maybe they were victims of some farmers uncivil road rage lol

 

[FataMorgana]

Never saw a dead crow on the roadside, maybe they were victims of some farmers uncivil road rage lol

Might be a Cork thing.

 

[Eyewitness]

Might be a Cork thing.

Lol, maybe, the rebel county has been known for killings on the road, ask Micheal Collins

 

[FataMorgana]

Lol, maybe, the rebel county has been known for killings on the road, ask Micheal Collins

God bless him, the big man himself.

 

[stickygirl]

I was amazed by the Irish courtesy. We were on a country lane and approached a junction, so pulled over to let the local car get past. He slowed beside us, which was disconcerting, then wound his window down.
"Can I help ya at all? Where are ya headed?"
Then
"You're on the right road. Turn left in the village and you'll see it signposted. I hear it's nice so have a good day."
And off he went, leaving us literally open-mouthed and feeling a little ashamed that we were suspicious.

 

[Eyewitness]

I was amazed by the Irish courtesy. We were on a country lane and approached a junction, so pulled over to let the local car get past. He slowed beside us, which was disconcerting, then wound his window down.
"Can I help ya at all? Where are ya headed?"
Then
"You're on the right road. Turn left in the village and you'll see it signposted. I hear it's nice so have a good day."
And off he went, leaving us literally open-mouthed and feeling a little ashamed that we were suspicious.

Surprised that you didn’t get the directions by way of pubs, turn right at this pub then head straight til you get to that pub, then when you pass this pub take another right lol, pubs are landmarks regularly used for directions here lol

 

[stickygirl]

Surprised that you didn’t get the directions by way of pubs, turn right at this pub then head straight til you get to that pub, then when you pass this pub take another right lol, pubs are landmarks regularly used for directions here lol

True, but then it depends where you're coming from

 

[Eyewitness]

True, but then it depends where you're coming from

Or where you’re going

 

[ace195008]

Boy, I agree with a lot that has been posted. I think sometimes uncivilized behavior is the path of least resistance. I agree that times have changed in many ways. But I feel you ( the royal you ) has to be responsible for actions and words. There is always fallout fro an action or words many times.

u

 

[patient1]

There's a lot at play here, but I categorize it as stress. Which causes people to be so preoccupied with their own problems that they become inconsiderate.

It's a trend. Back in my day a single income could support a family of 4 or so. When you can't live like your parents, you get frustrated.

Even before cell phones became smart, they raised the bar on stress. Your boss or client could reach you anywhere, any time.
Your car commute to and from work wasn't a refuge any more. If you had problems with your significant other the problems could follow you there. Even if you didn't, they might be calling to dump errands on you.
Next thing you know some motorist is pissed at you for cutting them off, and you didn't even notice them passing on your right, you used your turn signal like always. You were distracted by the stress, he was driving recklessly and too fast, combining to put who knows how many lives at risk, and he was probably under pressure from his boss or client or spouse to be somewhere else NOW!

The internet and social media? I think we all understand the downsides. Texting started with good intentions. It allowed those polite, hardworking Japanese to converse on their train commute without bothering the people beside them. But here and now in America, it seems like a way to bring those same cell phone problems everywhere, while at the same time appearing to disrespect everyone present.

As somebody else mentioned, there's the higher education thing. Everybody steering teens into college without concern for the cost, the likelihood of completing the degree or employment prospects. If I were a loan officer I'd treat student loans the same as entrepreneur loans- interest rates would be based on the risk and likelihood of being repaid in full based upon the declared major or lack thereof. Regardless, we have a generation who can't afford to have kids because of college debts. That causes frustration and stress.

*****************
And another thing.... Today we have more choices, but the more we customize our lives, the less we have in common. It's not the 3 broadcast TV, top40 Am radio, local newspaper, public school world me and my fellow baby-boomers grew up in. Then and there we had something to talk about because we shared so many experiences.

Now, even if everybody on this thread watched youtube, or netfix or hulu or TicTok or whatever we'd be unlikely to see the same thing. Without common ground it's hard to relate to each other, and without that it's hard to see others as peers or equals, or one of us. When you see them as different, you start to treat them differently.

I like choices, but I worry that they are tearing at the fabric of society.
I try to remember that the people I deal with are likely having a hard day, and try to be polite to them when I haven't time to be kind.

 

[silver gurl]

We're group animals that thrive on constant face-to-face interactions, with touch and even shaking hands - what happened to that convention ( covid )? Casual chats with strangers in a public place used to be normal, but try it now and people think you're weird, so you don't try again.

Every day we're peppered with micro aggressions that build up and it seems only a kindness can undo it.

I blame social media though I'm a child of the generation that grew up with the internet. Covid didn't help either and I've heard from my teaching friends who see a generation of primary school kids who've never learned the rules of mixing.

I'm not comfortable mixing casually but my mother made me do it: dragging me to friends birthday parties when I just wanted to read a book. I learned how to put on my 'interested face' in meetings, rather than fiddle with a phone - something I find incredibly rude.

Interesting that you brought up children and mixing.
Sadly, I know quite a few young adults who just cannot adult. They didn’t grow up playing outside or using their imagination, they don’t have real life friends, no real goals or job and they barely leave the house.
These kids were brought up with video games in their hands and a cell phone to play with, just to keep them quiet. They do not know how to function socially.

About the OP-Canada is pretty polite. Much more so than the States. However, I have seen rudeness erupt starting with Covid lockdowns and our endless power outages. People have lost patience over the past few years.

 

[Debbie]

Forgive my rambling. My next door neighbour is getting a new roof and the roofers are there at sparrows fart lol.


I think covid has played a small part too.

Because of the lack of social interaction and people wanting to keep their physical distance and not get involved because they might get covid.

People were scared. We as a generation were facing something we had never experienced in our lifetimes.

Because of supermarket shortages people became greedy and desperate too and perhaps some of these people who would not normally be uncivil became so as a way of coping and hoping being loud might get them what they wanted just to de escalate a situation.

Or they just wanted to get back home take the mask off sanitize and relax in the hopeful safety of their home from the pandemic so they were rude impatient demanding etc.

I also think wearing masks when out in public led to some "hiding" behind their covid masks.

We could no longer see each others faces properly and read facial cues to determine frustration mild irritation impatience anger etc.


In New Zealand masks are no longer required and slowly people are returning to pre covid "normality".

I'm slowly seeing people chatting in the supermarkets ailses again.

Letting their guard down about social distancing.

Handing their empty trolley to someone going into the supermarket after theyve taken their shopping to their car.


Hopefully we might begin to see more normal behavior and just maybe more civility.

 

[patient1]

Forgive my rambling. My next door neighbour is getting a new roof and the roofers are there at sparrows fart lol.


I think covid has played a small part too.

Because of the lack of social interaction and people wanting to keep their physical distance and not get involved because they might get covid.

People were scared. We as a generation were facing something we had never experienced in our lifetimes.

Because of supermarket shortages people became greedy and desperate too and perhaps some of these people who would not normally be uncivil became so as a way of coping and hoping being loud might get them what they wanted just to de escalate a situation.

Or they just wanted to get back home take the mask off sanitize and relax in the hopeful safety of their home from the pandemic so they were rude impatient demanding etc.

I also think wearing masks when out in public led to some "hiding" behind their covid masks.

We could no longer see each others faces properly and read facial cues to determine frustration mild irritation impatience anger etc.


In New Zealand masks are no longer required and slowly people are returning to pre covid "normality".

I'm slowly seeing people chatting in the supermarkets ailses again.

Letting their guard down about social distancing.

Handing their empty trolley to someone going into the supermarket after theyve taken their shopping to their car.


Hopefully we might begin to see more normal behavior and just maybe more civility.

Fascinating to get a snippet of pandemic life in NZ, which probably handled it more successfully than any other country.

 

[Debbie]

Fascinating to get a snippet of pandemic life in NZ, which probably handled it more successfully than any other country.

A lot of NZ people did not take the hard lockdown well.

Some tried to sneak around or went further than they were supposed to travel for shopping.

It was particularly difficult for sick or disabled people or those without vehicles or living rural.

Really long queues outside supermarkets were terrible as only a few people could enter the supermarket at a time.

The shortages in supermarkets was widespread and empty shelves was a common occurance.

Some good things did happen such as students volunteered to wait in queues to get elderly or sick people's shopping for them.

Some communities who had vegetable gardens would drop off veges to those in need.

Online communities started to help those in need.

Some people were in their isolation bubbles by themselves and had no access to a vehicle to pick up their medicines or go shopping.

I remember reading online in a nz forum of a heavily pregnant mum who was alone in a rural community with a toddler and hubby was serving overseas.

People rallied around and within a day food clothes nappies etc were left at a plunket centre and her midwife picked them up and left them on her doorstep.

My local fruit and vege store managed to struggle through by making vege and fruit boxes available. You could order them over the ph, pay online and get a contactless delivery.

Food banks had empty shelves or were being broken into and their supplies stolen.

We were behind the times imo with supermarkets having online shopping and delivery.

Or if you were lucky enough to be given priority shopping because of being disabled or sick the slots might not be available for a week or more to order what was available let alone a delivery time.

I love my country especially our people who in tough times hunker down, support each other and tough things out.

But we were totally unprepared when it came to feeding our entire nation because supermarkets were not able to have enough stock or had limited stock as covid shut down a lot of exports coming in and a lot of our meat canned goods etc gets exported overseas.

Our hospitals were not prepared nor our health system and we have a shortage of drs and nurses.

Economy wise I think things are getting better and our labour govt made the best of the situation but it was not a popular decision which seems to be showing in the poll results.

Our next general election is in October and I'd be surprised if labour gets back in.

I personally think labour with jacinda adern as our prime minister made the hard calls and lost some popularity.

But she put our people first and to me it shows in our reasonably low covid death rates compared to other countries.

I think there were mistakes made but no matter how well we dealt with the pandemic that was always going to happen since the world wasnt prepared nor able to control the spread of covid and the new strains etc.

I'm not dissing other countries but I think the hard lockdown worked and our country is reasonably small so it was easier to go into a full lockdown with a smaller population compared to bigger highly populated countries.

 

[saintcero]

On the drive to work I see dozens of examples of road rage a day. It used to be 1 or 2 a month.

When shopping for groceries, I see nothing but people who feel entitled. The old adage "The customer is always right" seems to empower most shoppers in the worst ways. I used to shop and the only screaming I heard were from kids. Now it's the adults.

Restaurants are the worst. My daughter was on wait staff for a couple of years and the stories she told me were so disappointing. People demanding 5-star service in a chain restaurant, people taking their anger out on wait staff if the food isn't right, people trying to make moral judgments in their tipping.

These are a few examples. Again my question, where has civility gone?

The anonymity of the internet killed it. People’s inner dickishness came out with no fear of being recognized and held responsible for their actions

 

[patient1]

Debbie, what's a "plunket centre"?

 

[SexyGeorge]

People just suck in todays world. It’s so infuriating. It takes little to no effort to be kind, to say hello or help someone by opening a door or grabbing something high off a shelf. I try but it’s hard because people are just so self absorbed in their own shit they think they are the only ones that matter and everyone else is out to get them. Just do better! End rant

100 percent agree . Almost no manners or politeness everything is me me me

 

[Wylie3]

Debbie, what's a "plunket centre"?

Plunket is an organization for looking after children and mothers. A plunket centre is where the mothers go for all the relevant assistant when bringing up children.

 

[Pauljiggs]

It left when people started to believe in the concept of “I am right and if you disagree, you are stupid”.
This has led to cancel cultural, the hecklers veto at public speaking events, the demand to never hear the voice of opposition, and the above mentioned rudeness in restaurants to wait staff and service personnel.
Too many people have chosen to live in an echo chamber. That way their beliefs are never questioned. And they never have to examine their beliefs beyond the bumper sticker slogans.
The rudeness seems to me to comes from fear and or uncertainty in one’s self. And it’s easier to attack than to think. It’s better to shout down questions you know you have no answer for. Better to claim tolerance by excluding the opposition than to include them and maybe learn something.
Such as learning something that would force you to rethink what you believe.
In the end you become rude to anybody that is not in your intimate circle. Every little thing becomes an attack. And everybody else is some kind of “ist” or “phobic”.
We stopped talking TO people. We only talk AT people.
We stopped listening to engage in the conversation and only listen to respond.
And lastly too few people today get bloody noses for being an asshole. There was a time when an educational thumping was acceptable to unacceptable actions.