Contextual submission

[BiBunny]

Actually this totally makes sense.
I think some very decent Dominants come to fruition from losing a relationship that was that all-encompassing from their early days, I've met a couple of people like this.

This will be me if B. and I ever end our relationship. I cannot imagine myself ever being in this kind of situation with anyone other than him, and I'm usually pretty good at reading myself in such a way.

 

[graceanne]

With K going to Afghanistan in 2009 we've talked about what happens if he dies. I know that I would eventually find someone else, but I don't know if I'd go looking for a D/s relationship. I know I'd look for a dominant person, but as I stated it took me years to develop that kind of trust for K. *shrug* You never know, though.

 

[Ebonyfire]

The answer doesn't relate to me, but to one of my submissives. His first Domme was met at his sister's wedding. And she told him that she saw submissive written in invisible letters over his forehead. I personally do not see it even though he sought me out because of his experience with her.

I suppose you could say his context was being confronted with someone who took something invisible and made it manifest.

 

[Netzach]

The answer doesn't relate to me, but to one of my submissives. His first Domme was met at his sister's wedding. And she told him that she saw submissive written in invisible letters over his forehead. I personally do not see it even though he sought me out because of his experience with her.

I suppose you could say his context was being confronted with someone who took something invisible and made it manifest.

I've been told that kind of thing before by a kind of creepy D/s couple that wanted a second slave.

Takes someone whose opinion I weigh a LOT before I ascribe anything other than wishful thinking to their insights. There's all kinds of things out there, if a woman doesn't look at you, if she picks up a spoon before a fork, if she scratches her left tit, she's subconsciously a sub.

What I'm confronting is suddenly viewing someone close to me, whose stuck with me through something huge when all common wisdom says something like that would never happen, thereby putting a little more proof in the pudding, looking different to me. Over a period of 8 years. A switch I could flip like a lightswitch if I wanted - but suddenly I want to far less. I think things and say things in regard to this person that have literally never sounded or felt right coming across my radar screen and when you make "with this person" the context they're fine and groovy. Put anyone else in that place and I get as angry, non-productive and turned off as ever before.

 

[Ebonyfire]

I've been told that kind of thing before by a kind of creepy D/s couple that wanted a second slave.

Takes someone whose opinion I weigh a LOT before I ascribe anything other than wishful thinking to their insights.

You know, I found it hard to believe that you could tell "by looking". She went on a vanilla date with him and that is when she hit him with the bombshell. I see him as only being situationally submissive. He is not all that interested in BDSM or D/s.

 

[Netzach]

You know, I found it hard to believe that you could tell "by looking". She went on a vanilla date with him and that is when she hit him with the bombshell. I see him as only being situationally submissive. He is not all that interested in BDSM or D/s.

I guess some people do have really good 'dar but even they're wrong at times. When I ask people I've gotten to know to the point where they trust me with the info, I've oddly never been wrong.

It makes sense that a person oriented like that might not be, because they're not necessarily going to view that bit of submission as worth defining themselves around. I can't wrap my head around where I'd be at if my D interests weren't there at all - but I'd probably have been turned off the scene more often and more deeply. Not that I'm not always in a state of evaluating its value to me, and that changing.

 

[JMohegan]

I guess this is what I'm chewing on lately, flavor du jour for me, as I confront some pretty weird reactions to one of my favorite people. Not totally out of the blue, I've always had a certain degree of flexibility, but different in shape and intensity than before.

Maybe it's those mid 30's hormones and nothing more. This definitely goes outside the parameters of what I find hot in any sort of baseline theoretical way. But put that person into the mental movie and my reactions unnerve me as they are different.

My god, this sounds familiar.

Mid 30's, I found myself in love with a woman for the very first time. I had loved prior partners and maintained very strong relationships. But for me actually being in love was a totally new and yes - profoundly unnerving experience.

The sense of vulnerability shocked me. It was "weird", to say the least. This had never been a goal of mine or even something I considered acceptable in a theoretical possibility kind of a way.

I think things and say things in regard to this person that have literally never sounded or felt right coming across my radar screen and when you make "with this person" the context they're fine and groovy. Put anyone else in that place and I get as angry, non-productive and turned off as ever before.

Again, this sounds so familiar! God, this is making me grin.

I don't mean to suggest that the shift from D-who-loves-his-s to D-in-love-with-his-s is comparable to the 180 from D to s.

But the newly discovered feeling of vulnerability (that inevitably came with being in love) initially made me feel as if I was abdicating my D-position and core identity in some way.

Circling back to your questions in the opening post, for me this shift to D-in-love-with-his-s was definitely partner specific. No doubt about that. But timing and cumulative prior experience were definitely key as well.

I don't know if you could call it a maturity thing, exactly. Perhaps it was more like a case of coming to the point where I gave myself permission to let go or lower my defenses. It doesn't matter, really. The point is, for me the catalyst for this contextual experience was part person, part time & place.

 

[Marquis]

Interesting. I feel like I might be missing the mark here a bit, but I'll try again.

I do believe I'm familiar with the feeling Jmohegan is talking about. It doesn't decrease my desire to be dominant though, it just changes it. I suppose I don't like at domination and submission quite along a spectrum as I used to.....

hard to explain.

I have a lot of feelings toward my sub (I have to update my relationship thread, been meaning to) that could be construed as submissive or even masochistic. I'm pretty comfortable with it, because I just have a tendency to redefine what it means to be dominant, or at least masculine or whatever other adjective I need to feel cool about myself.

 

[Netzach]

Interesting. I feel like I might be missing the mark here a bit, but I'll try again.

I do believe I'm familiar with the feeling Jmohegan is talking about. It doesn't decrease my desire to be dominant though, it just changes it. I suppose I don't like at domination and submission quite along a spectrum as I used to.....

hard to explain.

I have a lot of feelings toward my sub (I have to update my relationship thread, been meaning to) that could be construed as submissive or even masochistic. I'm pretty comfortable with it, because I just have a tendency to redefine what it means to be dominant, or at least masculine or whatever other adjective I need to feel cool about myself.

Yeah. Hm.

I guess I'm more liable to go off blithely in love with someone - not totally stupidly, but selectively and passionately and for real (It's happened 3 or 4 times) than I am liable to get into wanting to be a toy or an object or a doll or a whatever-he/she-desires for anyone. Like, full stop, what the hell, huh?

I've never sat around idly stimulating my bits to the concept. I prefer not to watch media in which I'm supposed to identify with the girl doing so - like you I'll ID with the do-er because I remain way cool thus. And frankly, it just kind of grosses me, it doesn't do it for me any more than watching bugs crawl around.

But holy shit if I don't want all these sudden very classic sub potboiler stuff of fantasy thingies when I think about this person. Yikes.

And yes, it is "I want." And I do pester the person in question for them. And my behavior is atrocious newbie nauseating behavior I wouldn't accept for a second.

 

[Marquis]

You'd make a beautiful doll, Netz.

 

[Netzach]

Perhaps it was more like a case of coming to the point where I gave myself permission to let go or lower my defenses.

Of everything you said, this hits home most. Maybe I've just gotten sick enough that I really don't care about being hurt by risking everything I can, and maybe I'm well enough that I can actually start thinking about my sex life again seriously.

 

[Netzach]

You'd make a beautiful doll, Netz.

Thank you. I think enough so that he's amused by being pestered.
We've played with me on bottom before but " ok, again -- this time with feeling" one might say.

 

[RJMasters]

Who never felt a submissive inclination till they met the person who brought it out, and can't fathom the same kind of relationship with anyone else?

Yes...

 

[JMohegan]

Interesting. I feel like I might be missing the mark here a bit, but I'll try again.

I do believe I'm familiar with the feeling Jmohegan is talking about. It doesn't decrease my desire to be dominant though, it just changes it. I suppose I don't like at domination and submission quite along a spectrum as I used to.....

hard to explain.

I have a lot of feelings toward my sub (I have to update my relationship thread, been meaning to) that could be construed as submissive or even masochistic. I'm pretty comfortable with it, because I just have a tendency to redefine what it means to be dominant, or at least masculine or whatever other adjective I need to feel cool about myself.

Yes, it's hard to explain, but you do a good job here.

I touched on this once before, in your Unlikely Switch thread, by referring to myself as a Dom in the sense of tangible expression but a switch at heart. The labels are so limiting, and no two experiences are identical. But I do think we're in the same ballpark in terms of what we're talking about here.

Of everything you said, this hits home most. Maybe I've just gotten sick enough that I really don't care about being hurt by risking everything I can, and maybe I'm well enough that I can actually start thinking about my sex life again seriously.

So the question becomes:how strong is that "maybe"?

Will you go with the flow with this contextual urge thing? Or try to ignore it, run from it, or curtail it if you can?

 

[Marquis]

I touched on this once before, in your Unlikely Switch thread, by referring to myself as a Dom in the sense of tangible expression but a switch at heart.

I think that was a more profound statement than I originally understood it to be.

 

[pandoravampire]

ive been happy to identify as 'slightly different' to most folks. And have a bevvy of mates that make me feel main stream, as they are all very interesting people, for various reasons. Ive always been kinky. Never had i experienced submission though until i met someone that inspired that in me. And although its not been long ive been single. ive looked at what's available Dom/me wise, and im not tempted at all. It appears to be, as i suspected it was, it was 'that' particular person that allowed me to contact with that side of me.

So ill continue on my path of being me. Im not identifying as a Domme, as that would be untrue, and rather grandiose. A top, yep, that feels about right. But i prefer the more accurate title of me. Ill be me, you can either want in, or out. Im trapped in a double bind. Being that having lived as sub 24/7, your aware that D/s is not a sexual dynamic. There are so many areas where the dynamic is upheld outside of the bedroom. People that are contacting me. Have only done bedroom only. And the difference is vast im finding in mind sets.
Most have a interest, and a willingness, but i dont see it as my role to educate someone on the basics. fucking like animals is the easy part as far as im concerned. Well, for me at least, the sex was the easy part. It was the giving of control in other areas of my life that was tricky. I can suck cock till the cows come home! The double bind is that i no longer wish to identify as a sub. This is only a part of me, which has had to go away. As there is nobody to take care of that person cept me it seems. But still, i see that bedroom only seems so shallow. So i dont want 24/7, but its been so long since i had a play partner, they seem too shallow. So ill wait a while. And recover some.

so what happens to the sub? the sub that was created, who's needs still cry out to be met?
For me, im burying it deep. Because it hurts like fuck right now, to have that need to be the one nurtured and attended to, go wanting. Im climbing out of my needy shell, back into a safer, more secure individual. And staying out of relationships, till i have the me myself and i sorted. Most of the need, is for him, rather than just any experience of submission. So not available through a play scene to me right now.

Ive met other dominants. And im yet again, made aware of the vast difference of online only experience, to real life. They simply dont have a clue? its all changed in the 3 yrs ive been busy with my Sir.
There appear to be loads of kinksters out there, who have read you can have hot sex in bdsm and so thought they'd get themselves some of the action. yeah, im sooo tempted! Not.

Ive overcome a physical illness over the past year. Its been a hard slog, but got there eventually, with right meds, right doses etc. Im now healthy again. Which has been a while since i felt that way. I now plan to enjoy my health again. I wish to have fun again. Just not as a submissive.
Id not be opposed to the jollies of bottoming i guess. But that is probably as far as ill go. Though when i think of bottoming. I still have yet to see someone that i could do that with. Im just not inspired that way at the moment. With P, i knew when i met him, that what i felt was unusual for me. I grabbed the opportunity with both hands to submit. I suspected it would not occur too often in my life. I have many walls around me, it takes a very specific persona to get through. Especially at the vulnerable level required to give up control and submit to someone.

Im now back to thinking. That. Ill not be letting another in. Not yet. That's a phase of recovery isn't it? lol
pandoravampire

 

[Netzach]

Yes, it's hard to explain, but you do a good job here.

I touched on this once before, in your Unlikely Switch thread, by referring to myself as a Dom in the sense of tangible expression but a switch at heart. The labels are so limiting, and no two experiences are identical. But I do think we're in the same ballpark in terms of what we're talking about here.

So the question becomes:how strong is that "maybe"?

Will you go with the flow with this contextual urge thing? Or try to ignore it, run from it, or curtail it if you can?

I've been throwing myself into it, actually. Because I really believe that no matter what happens nothing will explode and no one will die. And that NOT going forward is worse than going forward even if everything goes to hell.

He's too busy/overwhelmed to give me the constant attention I demand at this juncture and I think that's probably good for me as it is for anyone. (That's not a cop-out, rather a real assessment of his life at the moment) I'm not letting myself be held back, and I'm developing a small, vulnerable, sharp little kernel of emotional masochism I didn't consider which makes the wait worth the wait when I do have his attention.

But I also know that as I'd do for him, he'd do for me, in a heartbeat, and I know I'm not going to deprive him for good of the chance to be soft, passive, objectified, and dropped into space, either. It would be a waste. Either of us can make things happen at any moment. This lends unpredictability, which is probably good.

A nice outcropping of all this, is that I'm getting more attentive, more adept, more romantically involved and more *present* in my marriage than I've been in a long time. Much to my delight, M is really thrilled that I'm feeling adjusted and balanced and aligned.

I am, for the record, a, manipulative, needy, newbie subette. I'd probably ignore myself for a week.

 

[JMohegan]

I am, for the record, a, manipulative, needy, newbie subette. I'd probably ignore myself for a week.

Ha, ha! Yes - I figured as much from your earlier reference to "atrocious newbie nauseating behavior I wouldn't accept for a second."

That's actually what prompted my question. I was wondering if you saw yourself as trying to sabotage this connection in some way.

A nice outcropping of all this, is that I'm getting more attentive, more adept, more romantically involved and more *present* in my marriage than I've been in a long time. Much to my delight, M is really thrilled that I'm feeling adjusted and balanced and aligned.

I don't have experience with the poly, but more broadly I would say that temporarily resisting a fundamental urge (e.g., sadism, falling in love, whatever) has always made me miserable, conflicted, and therefore a pain in the ass across the board with family and friends.

In contrast, figuring out a way to incorporate the urge into my own positive self-image, and work from there, has made me much more pleasant, worthy, and worthwhile in all forms of human relations.

As you said, "NOT going forward is worse than going forward even if everything goes to hell."

 

[intothewoods]

I am, for the record, a, manipulative, needy, newbie subette. I'd probably ignore myself for a week.

Hee hee - subette! Sounds like backup singers...

 

[Netzach]

Ha, ha! Yes - I figured as much from your earlier reference to "atrocious newbie nauseating behavior I wouldn't accept for a second."

That's actually what prompted my question. I was wondering if you saw yourself as trying to sabotage this connection in some way.

Oh, I see. No I know for a fact this person is harder to get rid of than that. And I'm beginning to gain more faith in his wicked streak, even if I want more of it. Plus, again, I'm multidimensional. This is new and shiny, but if he came to me next week and said "I don't care for this, please order me around again" that would be fine and OK, the curiosity of what might be would not kill me at all, it's like a relationship that might have been but isn't or a job I didn't take.

 

[Netzach]

Hee hee - subette! Sounds like backup singers...

Yeah, something like that.
How do you ladies cool your jets and not call and email 85 times a day?

 

[BiBunny]

Yeah, something like that.
How do you ladies cool your jets and not call and email 85 times a day?

It's hard. I can be the most stoic person ever, and I can be the neediest person ever, depending on my mood. I just try to restrict myself to an email and a call ever so often and an IM conversation nearly every night. You'll find that the poly thing will come in handy, what with the other partners you have to distract yourself with.

 

[Netzach]

ive been happy to identify as 'slightly different' to most folks. And have a bevvy of mates that make me feel main stream, as they are all very interesting people, for various reasons. Ive always been kinky. Never had i experienced submission though until i met someone that inspired that in me. And although its not been long ive been single. ive looked at what's available Dom/me wise, and im not tempted at all. It appears to be, as i suspected it was, it was 'that' particular person that allowed me to contact with that side of me.

So ill continue on my path of being me. Im not identifying as a Domme, as that would be untrue, and rather grandiose. A top, yep, that feels about right. But i prefer the more accurate title of me. Ill be me, you can either want in, or out. Im trapped in a double bind. Being that having lived as sub 24/7, your aware that D/s is not a sexual dynamic. There are so many areas where the dynamic is upheld outside of the bedroom. People that are contacting me. Have only done bedroom only. And the difference is vast im finding in mind sets.
Most have a interest, and a willingness, but i dont see it as my role to educate someone on the basics. fucking like animals is the easy part as far as im concerned. Well, for me at least, the sex was the easy part. It was the giving of control in other areas of my life that was tricky. I can suck cock till the cows come home! The double bind is that i no longer wish to identify as a sub. This is only a part of me, which has had to go away. As there is nobody to take care of that person cept me it seems. But still, i see that bedroom only seems so shallow. So i dont want 24/7, but its been so long since i had a play partner, they seem too shallow. So ill wait a while. And recover some.

so what happens to the sub? the sub that was created, who's needs still cry out to be met?
For me, im burying it deep. Because it hurts like fuck right now, to have that need to be the one nurtured and attended to, go wanting. Im climbing out of my needy shell, back into a safer, more secure individual. And staying out of relationships, till i have the me myself and i sorted. Most of the need, is for him, rather than just any experience of submission. So not available through a play scene to me right now.

Ive met other dominants. And im yet again, made aware of the vast difference of online only experience, to real life. They simply dont have a clue? its all changed in the 3 yrs ive been busy with my Sir.
There appear to be loads of kinksters out there, who have read you can have hot sex in bdsm and so thought they'd get themselves some of the action. yeah, im sooo tempted! Not.

Ive overcome a physical illness over the past year. Its been a hard slog, but got there eventually, with right meds, right doses etc. Im now healthy again. Which has been a while since i felt that way. I now plan to enjoy my health again. I wish to have fun again. Just not as a submissive.
Id not be opposed to the jollies of bottoming i guess. But that is probably as far as ill go. Though when i think of bottoming. I still have yet to see someone that i could do that with. Im just not inspired that way at the moment. With P, i knew when i met him, that what i felt was unusual for me. I grabbed the opportunity with both hands to submit. I suspected it would not occur too often in my life. I have many walls around me, it takes a very specific persona to get through. Especially at the vulnerable level required to give up control and submit to someone.

Im now back to thinking. That. Ill not be letting another in. Not yet. That's a phase of recovery isn't it? lol
pandoravampire

This totally makes sense. Looking back over the whole story, I can pinpoint a few women who hit some buttons that may have led to a more solid and committed switch on my part, but there were inevitably too many other flaky factors that never allowed me to let go. I've been playing with this person a long time, seeing him a long time - it's a specific set of reactions on his part to life events of mine, and the time for me to process those events, that has allowed my brain to go here comfortably. In combination with the really intense and unique personal chemistry and connection and understanding we have and its duration.

So, yeah, whatever might have been there got let down and gunshy. For about 6-7 years at least.

 

[Netzach]

It's hard. I can be the most stoic person ever, and I can be the neediest person ever, depending on my mood. I just try to restrict myself to an email and a call ever so often and an IM conversation nearly every night. You'll find that the poly thing will come in handy, what with the other partners you have to distract yourself with.

Cool. I take it this eventually chills out. I feel like a 3 year old labrador.

 

[BiBunny]

Cool. I take it this eventually chills out. I feel like a 3 year old labrador.

Eventually. I still find myself acting like the 3-year-old Lab occasionally. You know, drooling, fawning, and flopping across him while he's sitting on the couch. Thank God he thinks I'm cute.