Creative Punishement..

[Ebonyfire]

I do not think the definition is a problem. The application is the bone of contention, and that is alright. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[His_sugar]

I have to agree with EB.. Different strokes..

That is one of the things that makes this lifestyle so wonderful.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Dictonary

In My dictionary, one of the definitions of punishment (noun) is this:
"suffering , pain or loss that serves as retribution; severe rough or disastrous treatment".

Discipline can also be implied as "chastening" instead of punishing.

So, it all depends on your point of view.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I agree definition is not super important as the meanings are so similar as to have little differentiation if any. The bottom line is no-one brags about being punished or disciplined because it is such a prideful and positive experience....it is a result of negative behaviour. As for choosing to discuss over punishment or discipline, I don't think it need be an either/or situaton. In this household, discussion of the issue is just the first step, but always comes before any discipline in an effort to highlight the issue and create understanding in an effort of preventing further problems. It then is his decison whether he feels that is enough, or whether he feels punishment is warranted as reinforcement. It is never carried out while either of us are in an emotional state over whatever has caused the need for punishment, as that invites resentment and over reaction.

C

 

[Ebonyfire]

The bottom line is no-one brags about being punished or disciplined because it is such a prideful and positive experience....it is a result of negative behaviour.

Yup!

 

[Netzach]

I find myself very much in accord with how Eb handles this, on further elaboration.

If things escalated to the point where I'd have to be considering serious and frequent punishment I'd be looking for another sub, too.

We're grown adults. I communicate my desires, the boys on the bottom strive to fulfill them, each with his own inimitable style.

When it falls short I say so, they adjust. If they didn't adjust and just threw up their hands and demonstrated a total fuck you in lack of concern, then yeah, "kick to the curb" doesn't sound so harsh.

Creativity goes into play, serious communication goes into pulling someone back on the straight and narrow.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Sort of getting back on topic...punishment(or discipline) must often be creative to be useful. I learned my lessons well in the Marine Corps, and it carries over to my current D/s relationship. In both situations, a simple ass-whipping is not an effective punishment. Instead, a certain amount of thought must be used to find the best way to teach a lesson without use of physical force.
For example, an 'unreasonable' overcompensation is often instructive. For instance, if a submissive speaks too loudly, forcing the sub to speak in a whisper at all times for awhile can get great results.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Corrective punishment and discipline only work up to a certain level. If you need to continuously correct and punish your partner it becomes a tedious job and it takes away from the relationship.

I can see why there is a movement towards kicking out the sub when there has to be a punishment to make your partner behave. But of course there are times where you need to punish your partner, so far I have never had a submissive that I did not need to punish or discipline depending on your views.

I dislike the so popular games were the submissive asks, begs for punishment. If you need pain then just ask for pain. To me, punishment is not pleasant to give and I make sure it is not pleasant to receive.

There are many ways to give punishment but I have found that the most effective is to make sure that your partner understands, sees, and feels your disappointment in their behaviour. Sometimes I also use punishment to close an episode of bad behaviour, to give the submissive a chance of redemption and a new opportunity to behave correctly. If you do not close it, it will keep lingering and eventually have its effect on the relationship.

There are many ways I give punishment, sometimes it is a simple spanking, sometimes I take out my cane, it often involves pain. Pain given in punishment almost never is something that is enjoyed, once you remove the sexual undertone.

Francisco.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

If a submissive needs regular punishment, then there is a serious flaw in the relationship, isn't there?

 

[His_sugar]

There are many ways I give punishment, sometimes it is a simple spanking, sometimes I take out my cane, it often involves pain. Pain given in punishment almost never is something that is enjoyed, once you remove the sexual undertone.

Francisco.

True for some, not for all.

Pain never equals punishment for me. I don't care what looks, tone of voice.. etc is tossed into the mix. Pain is pain to me and it is all good.

 

[catalina_francisco]

True for some, not for all.

Pain never equals punishment for me. I don't care what looks, tone of voice.. etc is tossed into the mix. Pain is pain to me and it is all good.

There is sexual pain and then there is non sexual pain. Even the biggest pain sluts I have known have a distinction between the two. But of course every person is different and making generalisations is dangerous and can often lead to wrong conclusions

Bu let me ask you:
If you stub your toe against a wall, does it feel good?
What if you burn you hands by accident lifting up a hot pan?
What if you fall off a tree and break a leg?

I know there are persons out there that really enjoy pain, but most of those enjoy it when it has a sexual undertone, or at the least a particular set of circumstances. And then there is of course the barrier which most masochist have, pain until you reach that frontier is enjoyable, passing it without letting someone enter subspace turns divine pleasure into pure hell.

For the masochists that really enjoy pain but are also very submissive it also involves feedback they receive from their partner, and when the feedback they are receiving is disappointment, then the pain normally loses it enjoyment.

Francisco.

 

[catalina_francisco]

If a submissive needs regular punishment, then there is a serious flaw in the relationship, isn't there?

I would have to agree with you here Johnny, and if the punishment dealt has no effect then I would see no other course then to end the relationship.

Francisco.

 

[Ebonyfire]

It is a matter of style.

To me discipline and punishment are different. I see punishment as retribution for wrongdoing. I do not want to work that hard.

I discipline because I can. Discipline is a tool in my arsenal, I use it at My whim.

So punishment is kicking-to-the-curb time.

 

[Ebonyfire]

I find myself very much in accord with how Eb handles this, on further elaboration.

If things escalated to the point where I'd have to be considering serious and frequent punishment I'd be looking for another sub, too.

We're grown adults. I communicate my desires, the boys on the bottom strive to fulfill them, each with his own inimitable style.

When it falls short I say so, they adjust. If they didn't adjust and just threw up their hands and demonstrated a total fuck you in lack of concern, then yeah, "kick to the curb" doesn't sound so harsh.

Creativity goes into play, serious communication goes into pulling someone back on the straight and narrow.

You said it exactly as I meant it, thanks Netzach.

Ones always uses communication to find out the root cause of the wrong action.

Mistakes are corrected, purposeful wrongdoing to elicit a punishment is kicked to the curb.

Thanks for elaborating.

 

[niteshade]

It is a matter of style.

To me discipline and punishment are different. I see punishment as retribution for wrongdoing. I do not want to work that hard.

I discipline because I can. Discipline is a tool in my arsenal, I use it at My whim.

So punishment is kicking-to-the-curb time.

Ok... so, if the name of the thread was creative discipline?

 

[Ebonyfire]

Ok... so, if the name of the thread was creative discipline?

Can't think of anything I have already posted somewhere else.

 

[His_sugar]

There is sexual pain and then there is non sexual pain. Even the biggest pain sluts I have known have a distinction between the two. But of course every person is different and making generalisations is dangerous and can often lead to wrong conclusions

Bu let me ask you:
If you stub your toe against a wall, does it feel good?
What if you burn you hands by accident lifting up a hot pan?
What if you fall off a tree and break a leg?

I know there are persons out there that really enjoy pain, but most of those enjoy it when it has a sexual undertone, or at the least a particular set of circumstances. And then there is of course the barrier which most masochist have, pain until you reach that frontier is enjoyable, passing it without letting someone enter subspace turns divine pleasure into pure hell.

For the masochists that really enjoy pain but are also very submissive it also involves feedback they receive from their partner, and when the feedback they are receiving is disappointment, then the pain normally loses it enjoyment.

Francisco.

I should have made myself clear. Pain, in the context of the 'lifestyle' could not be punishment for me. Pain is not sexual for me.. just like getting a whipping, the belt, a paddle, cane, switch.. etc has no sexual value for me. I love the pain, period.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I should have made myself clear. Pain, in the context of the 'lifestyle' could not be punishment for me. Pain is not sexual for me.. just like getting a whipping, the belt, a paddle, cane, switch.. etc has no sexual value for me. I love the pain, period.

OK, thanks for the explanation. I remember reading that you have never been punished. I wonder if and when that happens with pain if you would still have the same opinion.

Well in cases of partners with the same mindset, it becomes necessary to change the way I would have to deal out punishment.

There are many ways to do it and it would depend on severity.

• Humiliation is a possibility, for example serving as human furniture.
• There is the possibility of denying certain things, for example if you forbid someone to cum for long periods or forbid them to sleep with you anymore.
• You can lock someone up for extended periods of time for example in a cage.
• You can force them to do something disgusting, like for example removing the use of toilet paper or having them eat their most disgusting food.
• You can play with the fears of someone, for example if they are afraid of mice, have a mouse run over their body.

Any person can be punished it is just a matter of finding the correct way.

Francisco.

 

[niteshade]

Edited to because I shouldnt have posted in the first place.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Edited to because I shouldnt have posted in the first place.

Why not? You can't leave me in suspense like this, or are you trying to punish me NS?

Catalina

 

[SierraMoon]

My Sir believes in discipline instead of punishment also. He has taught me to quit swearing, by making me put a clothespin on my tongue for a minute for each swear word i said. Needless to say, those things hurt, and i finally got to the point where i wouldn't say them anymore.

He has had me stand in a corner for 20 minutes, for forgetting to send Him my report, Make a thread on another board that we belong to, writing 50 times that i would not try to top from the bottom (that was a humiliation thing for me, as all my friends from there were now aware of my transgression).

He finds creative ways of dealing with any wrong doings on my part. i realize that most of the above things are pretty petty, but He saves the "big guns" (meaning silence from Him) until i do something really wrong.

 

[catalina_francisco]

My Sir believes in discipline instead of punishment also. He has taught me to quit swearing, by making me put a clothespin on my tongue for a minute for each swear word i said. Needless to say, those things hurt, and i finally got to the point where i wouldn't say them anymore.

He has had me stand in a corner for 20 minutes, for forgetting to send Him my report, Make a thread on another board that we belong to, writing 50 times that i would not try to top from the bottom (that was a humiliation thing for me, as all my friends from there were now aware of my transgression).

He finds creative ways of dealing with any wrong doings on my part. i realize that most of the above things are pretty petty, but He saves the "big guns" (meaning silence from Him) until i do something really wrong.

To me this is both discipline and punishment as according to definitions. If you do not obey his wishes, you are trained through punishment until you do obey. What does punishment mean to you? Maybe that will help me understand why so many have dropped the definition of discipline as punishment as noted in Oxford Dictionary, Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary, just to mention 2 highly recognised dictionaries, to say they are not punished and then tell how they have pain inflicted on them, priviledges taken away, humiliation introduced, all in the name of stopping inappropriate behaviour. My understanding is if a submissive did not displease, these acts would not happen, thus it equates it is punishment...no?

Catalina

 

[wolf2002]

When I misbehaved the other day, my Domina came up with the most genius punishment I ever heard of: she ordered me to pick my own punishment...

A tricky one: if i chose a too light punishment, it would mean that I didn;t take the offense very seriously... if i picked a too harsh punishment, I might have given the impression that the offense was even worse than I had confessed...

IMHO I came up with a pretty smart solution as well... I suggested that I would write an article of 1000 words about trust, respect and responsibility in a BDSM relation... she liked the idea...


Wolf

 

[niteshade]

Why not? You can't leave me in suspense like this, or are you trying to punish me NS?

Catalina

Lmao... No, I just realized that I don’t have some of the necessary requirements to continue contributing to the thread... my first few posts were made based on my knowledge of myself, and using the proposed punishment ( being ignored) as a reference. The last post Francisco made... seemed way too out there for me. I have not been punished for anything since I moved out of my parents’ house at 16... And as I do not participate in the kind of relationship where I would allow anyone to really punish me, my automatic reaction to his post was to say that I would not put up with that, and that "curb kicking" would be unnecessary because I would walk out on my own. I think you would have to seriously fuck up to deserve that kind of punishment... and perhaps it would not be something you did that could be fixed, maybe it is just part of who you are.

Then after I posted... I realized that I have no basis for comparison, as I am not in that type of relationship, nor do I think I ever will be. And I really can not have an informed opinion about something I know nothing about. So, I deleted the post. Did not mean to tease you, Catalina. Sorry.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Lmao... No, I just realized that I don’t have some of the necessary requirements to continue contributing to the thread... my first few posts were made based on my knowledge of myself, and using the proposed punishment ( being ignored) as a reference. The last post Francisco made... seemed way too out there for me. I have not been punished for anything since I moved out of my parents’ house at 16... And as I do not participate in the kind of relationship where I would allow anyone to really punish me, my automatic reaction to his post was to say that I would not put up with that, and that "curb kicking" would be unnecessary because I would walk out on my own. I think you would have to seriously fuck up to deserve that kind of punishment... and perhaps it would not be something you did that could be fixed, maybe it is just part of who you are.

Then after I posted... I realized that I have no basis for comparison, as I am not in that type of relationship, nor do I think I ever will be. And I really can not have an informed opinion about something I know nothing about. So, I deleted the post. Did not mean to tease you, Catalina. Sorry.

Oh sure you did..tease away, I'm a big girl, I can take it. As for curb kicking me out, I don't see him as doing that...he is too much the gentleman. That being said, he can effectively relay his disappointment in various other ways that are not mistaken for anything else. And you are right, it would need to be a very serious issue for him to think of anything such as finalising our relationship...and as he says, no matter what happens I will never be free of him ever again, so that is out. Commitment goes a long way, as does having similar outlooks and ethics, and lots of communication and wisdom on both sides. Dishonesty is one of the main things he will not tolerate, and we are united in our dislike for deception so it works.

Catalina