D/s . . . an unequal relationship

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

FUNGIUG

Hitler. Would you approve of keeping someone like Hitler alive and well until natural death?

Millions of abortions are performed every year.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Humbug

Sit on the beach, man. The water's too deep for you. Netzach is full of hot air and can float.

 

[FungiUg]

FUNGIUG

Hitler. Would you approve of keeping someone like Hitler alive and well until natural death?

Millions of abortions are performed every year.

Er... is there a point there?

I disagree with Hitler. I disagree with the society he tried to establish. I disagree strongly. Much of the reason behind my disagreement was that he tried to devalue many different types of people (Jews, Romany, etc.)

So you are agreeing with me?

Going back to your what you actually said:

Hitler. Would you approve of keeping someone like Hitler alive and well until natural death?

I think "keeping someone alive" is an unrelated question. If there's a relationship to the discussion on the commonality of value for people, then I don't see it.

Millions of abortions are performed every year.

Again, unsure of your point.

Or wait. Are you saying these people are valueless because they are killed or should be killed?

My point was that a person's individual "value" is indeterminate. As is everyones. Hence they are all equally valueable or valueless. Whether they die before birth or live to die of old age is irrespective of what "value" you can actually associate with a person.

Now if we are talking with how society values a person, I would say "it depends on the society", and hence becomes indeterminant again.

 

[JMohegan]

Hmmm...these are some tricky relationships!

Ha, ha - not really.

Using Marquis' example, it's the difference between his partner using her heightened power to push for some pussy eating, vs. letting Marquis figure out that he wants to munch box on his own.

The former (for me) would eventually lead to resentment and erosion of the bond that generated the love-power in the first place. The latter would lead to increased intimacy and joy shared by all.

 

[Homburg]

Humbug

Sit on the beach, man. The water's too deep for you. Netzach is full of hot air and can float.

"Man goes into cage. Cage goes into water. Fallacy's in the water. Our Fallacy."

 

[Netzach]

NETZACH

Look no further than the dictionary: equal...being identical to in value.

Want some whipped cream on your sundae?

Being identical to.

Being identical to in value.

You have no passing familiarity with that "dictionary" book do you?

 

[NemoAlia]

Excuse me, everybody, for the off-topic post. (I'll try to think of something relevant to say at the end.) But...

Doesn't Marquis' new av make you want to sing, "Flip your wings and fly to Daddy, take a dive and swim to Daddy, hit the floor and crawl to Daddy..."?



Anyway, yeah. When I was married, my husband wanted an equal partnership of a marriage. This was his primary reason why D/s would be a terrible, unhealthy idea. He fell into the equal = identical camp. May he some day realize the gravity of his error.

 

[unfoundiamond]

equal... in worth

I have the personal belief submission to the Dom is making their life richer... I am sure the inverse is true... But saying which is worth more is like having the chicken and the egg arguement... you can have one without the other... but without each other they have life but it is so bland... a Dom without a sub and vice versa is like that one sock... you keep washing it and waiting for the match... LOL If one where superior D's and S' wouldnt need each other... they are a pair...

I have thought about this lately as I meet men who claim to be a Dom, and don't have the strength to dominate me...
I consider myself a switch, I enjoy diffrent roles based on how I match up personality wise with that person. I do not believe my current Dom is better than me, he just has more discipline and self control than I do, I will take directions from him since I believe in his abilities to lead. If he was some loser living in his moms basement, I wouldn't believe he could lead and wouldn't follow him. If he didn't have my respect I wouldn't be the little slut making all his wildest dreams come true... He has to be my equal or better, mentally and physically, to dominate me... When I say better it may be misundaerstood, my Dom has a better job than me... I respect his abilites, me being a student, I could learn from proffesionals... This is one of the many areas where I consider him more acomplished or "better." I am prettyer than him... we all have our strengths... LOL

I think my opinion comes from my value for myself, I am confident and smart and I know I have a lot to offer... it doesn't make me feel bad to admit his strengths... I seeked him out for a reason... Two people are worth the same... Peoples abilities are diffrent, and some people are better at somethings... we all have strengths and weaknesses... that makes us equal by default...

 

[unfoundiamond]

oops forgot something...

Well put Fungi...
I know you're a veteran around here and I am a virgin and all, but I like your clear point and well thought out opinion about the value of people being indeterminate... I agree, I see it in a diffrent strengths diffrent weaknesses playing into life in a very cyberpunk rpg stat sheet kind of way, I believe you can't determine a persons value universally, I usually get ignored a lot... since I'm new... but I had to say "well put!"

I enjoy this discourse, even just reading it...

**wishes she had someone with intelligent oppinions to say all the time**adds it to the list**

Smile on me!

 

[Homburg]

Well put Fungi...
I know you're a veteran around here and I am a virgin and all, but I like your clear point and well thought out opinion about the value of people being indeterminate...

Don't worry, we like virgins around here. They don't stay virgins for long, of course...

I agree, I see it in a diffrent strengths diffrent weaknesses playing into life in a very cyberpunk rpg stat sheet kind of way,

*sniff*

Do I smell a fellow gamer?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Humbug

Well, youre kinda virginial...your mind, anyway.

 

[Homburg]

Humbug

Well, youre kinda virginial...your mind, anyway.

Response #1 - Virginial? Is that some kinda crack on my state of residence?

Response #2 - You're right. My mind is nowhere near as fucked as yours.

Trying to decide which one I like better. I'm leaning towards Response #2.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Humbug

Hahahahaha Touche!

 

[Homburg]

Humbug

Hahahahaha Touche!

 

[unfoundiamond]

hm...

Ha! Thanks... some finally talks to me, jeez. How do I get to not be a vigin anymore?? # of posts?

Yeah, I am a gamer... not practicing...(feels like I am talking about religon, LoL)

 

[Homburg]

Ha! Thanks... some finally talks to me, jeez. How do I get to not be a vigin anymore?? # of posts?

Yeah, I am a gamer... not practicing...(feels like I am talking about religon, LoL)

Aye, the virgin thing is based on number of posts. Soon enough you'll get Experienced, then Really Experienced, etc.

Same here, on gaming. I stopped running a moderatly good-sized troupe LARP a couple of months ago, and haven't gotten anything rolling since. Haven't had the oomph.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

DIAMONDDOLL

The Brahmans here dont acknowledge anyone capable of independent thought. But if they like the cut of your jib, and youre docile enough, you'll get a package containing pre-approved comments for posting, officially sanctioned banter, and a time schedule to do the posting.

 

[FungiUg]

Do I smell a fellow gamer?

I'm addicted to WoW-crack.

 

[Marquis]

On the other hand, it is true that falling in love gives your partner a power over you that can not be denied. In a relationship with a guy like me, the "smartest thing" for her to do would be to recognize that this type of power grows and strengthens, and its impact increases to our mutual benefit, if and only if she resists any temptation to wield it.

This is definitely true for me as well. I think there's a profound statement about power being made here that I'm not quite ready to open up yet, but shall perhaps return to.

 

[unfoundiamond]

oh I get it...

James, I see you have an opinion about the vets, and it is hard when you want to be heard- and no one is listening, but there's a reason the sore thumb gets smacked with the hammer, its sticking out...

DiamondDoll?... I preffer unfound...there's a million dolls... but I guess a rose by any other name... ya know...

Leave it to the guy that likes to ties girls up to talk to me...
*Looks for a sign on her back*

 

[Homburg]

Leave it to the guy that likes to ties girls up to talk to me...
*Looks for a sign on her back*

You say that like there's something wrong with tying up the girls.

Or is it because you also like to tie them up?

Or maybe you are a female that likes to be tied?

Oh, you're female, and riggers are abnormally attracted to your amazing shoulder flexibility, so you get lots of us ropejockeys talking to you, right?

What the hell did that mean?

 

[unfoundiamond]

I feel mocked...

Hmm... **trying to remember if I posted the flexibilty comment**

I was saying you must be able to sence I like to be tied... I shouldn't have been so vauge...
Seems lately I have been picking up on that unsaid thing that happens between two people who are sexually compatible, (especially fetish wise) like a phermone thing... Now since you are behind a computer this is not that, but it is a funny coinsedence...

Never tied a girl, I did what they wanted more than what I wanted... If one would have asked... that'd be diffrent...

I am a switch BTW... I like to be diffrent things to diffrent people... as you seemed to think I was talking about doing the tieing...

*smile* TTYL

 

[Homburg]

*raises eyebrow*

Hmmm....

So how flexible are those shoulders?

 

[BeachGurl2]

Damn. Drop a bomb, go away for a bit, and you guys take off on it. Ultimately, I have to agree with something Marquis said:

This is a complicated topic, and kind of circular in a way. I completely agree with you in that the strength of a person's principles relating to their position in the relationship is never more sincere than when it is inconvenient. I just think it goes both ways. I know that I can only expect my subs obedience under the most difficult of circumstances if I'm also willing to provide my commitment, protection, control and whatever else is expected of me under equally challenging circumstances.

And that, I think, is what keeps the relationship equal on that spiritual level that subs need to actually feel equal on when they're getting their face ground into the shower drain by your heel while you piss into her ear.

It's that 'spiritual equality' that I guess I'm getting at. Obviously, it's not 'power equality', as I've given up power to someone else. That person has the power to make decisions for me - across the board, because I'm talking outside the bedroom as well as inside.

On the other hand, it is true that falling in love gives your partner a power over you that can not be denied. In a relationship with a guy like me, the "smartest thing" for her to do would be to recognize that this type of power grows and strengthens, and its impact increases to our mutual benefit, if and only if she resists any temptation to wield it.

Ahhh, but if she were the type to wield that power, Jack, I'll take a stab in the dark here and guess that you probably wouldn't be in love with her, would you?

And ultimately, that leads to that discussion of the domly type being much stronger in relationship where there isn't love, right?

I guess the equal but different that RJ mentions is probably in the arena of my thoughts, as well. Yes, we have different roles. But we are equally necessary to the relationship. And the fact that I submit does not remove my value as a person nor does it remove my value to the relationship, in my opinion. And I believe that I can be equal without topping from the bottom.

 

[JMohegan]

And ultimately, that leads to that discussion of the domly type being much stronger in relationship where there isn't love, right?

The more I care, the harder I try. For this and other reasons, your assertion does not hold true for someone like me.