D/s . . . an unequal relationship

[BeachGurl2]

The more I care, the harder I try. For this and other reasons, your assertion does not hold true for someone like me.

I've actually never bought that sentiment, myself, that a Dom in love is less domly, but I have heard it argued here and on other sites. Frankly, I believe that love makes both Dom and sub stronger. But that's just me.

 

[Quint]

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[Netzach]

It sounds a lot like the old argument my mom used when I was in younger dating days: sex changes things. She just couldn't convince me HOW the relationship was changed with sex. Because there's no one answer.

Love changes the dynamic. I could imagine it being changed for better, for worse, or just for different. Just like any change, hopefully all partners in the relationship change at approximately the same pace and in the same direction. If JM's sub (e.g.*) falls in love with him and suddenly decides she only wants to explore her dirty desires with a stranger who she doesn't need to respect her in the morning, I suspect that's an incompatible change. That's probably all that they mean when they caution for/against falling in love--try to make sure you're compatible now as well as in the foreseeable future.


*Not to be confused with EG, as I think that would definitely fall under the category of "incompatible"

Being in love is not incompatible for me with being the pants. It's requisite that I'm the pants with he whom I'm in love with, however I may choose to wear or not wear them. I'm *still* the pants with my Bull - it was my idea all said and done to start this crawling around business, and I'm elated it actually gets him hard.

Being in love with someone is, for me, incompatible with OWNING someone as a slave. Different ball of wax. It's not that love makes me incapable of enforcing my will and a ball of moosh, it's that being in love with someone removes my objectivity to the point of being able to objectify them enough to consider them owned object.

 

[Quint]

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[catalina_francisco]

I think when it comes right down to it, what a lot of people struggle with when talking about being in love and objectifying or any number of other things the one you are in love with and how difficult or impossible that is, the problem is harking back to all those ideals we were raised with from a mainstream perspective which tells you it is wrong to treat the one you love in such ways.

What needs to be done is the switch flipped to acknowledge, not just in words but in heart and soul as well as subconscious, that with that person doing such things to and with them is what being in love is all about. Most of us struggle with it at some point or another, giving in to it though need not be a reality. Frankly, if F went out and gave to another he wasn't in love with, all those things I desired and needed from him and vv, there would be a lot of serious fallout in terms of our relationship...and yes, we have made this point clear to each other and rehashed the intricacies of what it was we wanted in a lifetime relationship when the need arises.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

I think when it comes right down to it, what a lot of people struggle with when talking about being in love and objectifying or any number of other things the one you are in love with and how difficult or impossible that is, the problem is harking back to all those ideals we were raised with from a mainstream perspective which tells you it is wrong to treat the one you love in such ways.

What needs to be done is the switch flipped to acknowledge, not just in words but in heart and soul as well as subconscious, that with that person doing such things to and with them is what being in love is all about. Most of us struggle with it at some point or another, giving in to it though need not be a reality. Frankly, if F went out and gave to another he wasn't in love with, all those things I desired and needed from him and vv, there would be a lot of serious fallout in terms of our relationship...and yes, we have made this point clear to each other and rehashed the intricacies of what it was we wanted in a lifetime relationship when the need arises.

Catalina

So if I just get over this cultural hang up I'll fall madly in love with H or enslave my husband who isn't a slave?

I'm glad you've got what works for you. If I had that many cultural hang ups I don't think I'd have anything to do with H and his lovely dark fuckupedness. Organizing my life the way I want has nothing to do with shying away from anything. I simply don't find "my husband my slave" hot, certainly not when I apply it to the guy I married anyhow because that's not him. It's not wrong - it's just not particularly erotic and it's more erotic for me with someone I'm not in love with.

Maybe with some other person I don't know, it would be entirely hot and appropriate. Just not any of these people and I don't really care to find four and five to find out.

 

[Netzach]

Netzach, I was actually thinking about what you have said on the subject when I wrote that post. It makes a lot of sense. I haven't had a whole lot of experiences with falling in love or playing seriously with people--I don't really know how my reactions to being humiliated/objectified/owned would be different than what I feel with T. That takes a whole nother level of trust in being poly--admitting that sometimes X is more satisfying BECAUSE I don't love them the way I love my husband.

Right. My poly functions as highly as it does, I believe, because there is a very clear "ecosystem" kind of concept to it. I think redundancies are the kiss of death, personally.

 

[FungiUg]

I simply don't find "my husband my slave" hot, certainly not when I apply it to the guy I married anyhow because that's not him.

(Slight tangent here.) I would hate for my own partner to be submissive: it would mean a huge change in her personality, and I love her fiestiness and "take charge/get it done" attitude. Sure, it means no power play in our relationship, but we (mostly) have other arrangements for that. The truth of the matter is, I love her for who she is, and I have no intention of turning her into something she is not.

I think sometimes acceptance is more important than understanding. I don't always understand her, but I always love and accept her.

With D/s, I just don't do the objectification thing very well at all. I get off on a submissive being a full-blown person who chooses to submit to me and have me treat her in whatever way I wish. But she always remains a person, and she is always there by choice. For me, that's what makes it "hawt".

As it happens, I often do make a point of climbing into the head of the submissives I play with... not so much for their "motivation" but rather to see what pushes their buttons. That means I do understand them somewhat, but that's a by-product.

Again, for me, love and acceptance is key. I need the caring and interaction for it all to work, so that I know what I am doing is not damaging or abusive in any way. Of course, that also requires trust, self-knowledge and acceptance.

So yeah, understanding is cool. It's a lot of why I am here -- to talk about and understand the fun stuff that I get up to. But the crux is that it's not essential.

 

[catalina_francisco]

So if I just get over this cultural hang up I'll fall madly in love with H or enslave my husband who isn't a slave?

I'm glad you've got what works for you. If I had that many cultural hang ups I don't think I'd have anything to do with H and his lovely dark fuckupedness. Organizing my life the way I want has nothing to do with shying away from anything. I simply don't find "my husband my slave" hot, certainly not when I apply it to the guy I married anyhow because that's not him.

Maybe with some other person I don't know, it would be entirely hot and appropriate. Just not any of these people and I don't really care to find four and five to find out.

Netzach, not everything comes down to 'cultural issues' though I think you are very much a product of your cultures as we all are, even if only in our bid to remove ourselves from aspects of it or protest ours is not as oppressive as others....hang ups come in many forms, not just the obvious to our own thinking. As you have discovered before, and most of us who care to look inside and ask questions have, the obvious is not always that obvious and what might be the way we think it is for us today might seem far different in a year or 2 when our eyes look at it from a different direction or we actually dig deep enough to discover that little grain of truth in what we thought was stupid to consider before, or even opening our life to another person who is not like the ones before...it is all a process of the journey through which we live and learn.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

Netzach, not everything comes down to 'cultural issues' though I think you are very much a product of your cultures as we all are, even if only in our bid to remove ourselves from aspects of it or protest ours is not as oppressive as others....hang ups come in many forms, not just the obvious to our own thinking. As you have discovered before, and most of us who care to look inside and ask questions have, the obvious is not always that obvious and what might be the way we think it is for us today might seem far different in a year or 2 when our eyes look at it from a different direction or we actually dig deep enough to discover that little grain of truth in what we thought was stupid to consider before, or even opening our life to another person who is not like the ones before...it is all a process of the journey through which we live and learn.

Catalina

I still take umbrage with "what needs to be done." Nothing "needs to be done."

I don't want to marry a slave or a pair of shoes, either more than the other.

I don't think this is a shortcoming. I've thought it through long enough to know. I'm not going to wake up vanilla tomorrow, or different on this one, any more than you'll be waking up vanilla or a Domme in a week. I'm glad you have a fully integrated marriage-cum-M/s enslavement if that's what you want - those of us who don't have our reasons, not merely a set of limitations for living such a wonderful life. I don't think the relationship structure is stupid merely beyond stupid FOR ME.

I'm feeling like I do when people tell me, no really, you'll have children and love it.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Being in love is not incompatible for me with being the pants. It's requisite that I'm the pants with he whom I'm in love with, however I may choose to wear or not wear them. I'm *still* the pants with my Bull - it was my idea all said and done to start this crawling around business, and I'm elated it actually gets him hard.

Being in love with someone is, for me, incompatible with OWNING someone as a slave. Different ball of wax. It's not that love makes me incapable of enforcing my will and a ball of moosh, it's that being in love with someone removes my objectivity to the point of being able to objectify them enough to consider them owned object.

this makes sense to me, and it's a viewpoint that i believe is fairly common actually. i've come across many Dominants who seek or own a slave as purely property, purely object, not the "slave plus" way of life that those like Catalina or myself live. often these Dominants will have a submissive (unowned) or even an equal partner (wife/husband) in addition to their slave because their need for romantic love, a friend, a mate is just unfathomable and contradictory to their idea of ownership and slavery. nothing at all wrong with that, i chalk it up to different strokes, different folks.

for me, while i would rather be owned without love than not owned at all (in other words, my need to be property exceeds my need to be loved), i know i would be very much an empty shell/automaton in that sort of M/s dynamic. so in order to fulfill the whole me, i need to be a loved and valued piece of human property. because my Master is the sort of man he is, our mutual love for one another hasn't muddied the dynamic at all. He is the sort that is driven to be the most depraved, perverted, cruel, with the object of his love and affection...and he is also the sort that cannot love in a romantic sense without complete possession. lucky me.

 

[FeistyOrchid]

My feelings

Short answer: I hope not!

Long answer: I definitely don't think so! I believe that outside the bedroom my partner and myself are equal despite whatever roles we take on in it. That being said when in a BDSM type bedroom relationship would consider myself a submissive NOT a slave. From reading some threads (and perhaps I have got this wrong as I am new here) their is a difference between the two.