Daisy's Fashion Help Thread

[AloneTooLong]

Most wedding dresses in the 60s wouldn't be mass produced. Rather a woman would by a pattern and make it herself or hire someone to do it for her, making adjustments as she sees fit.

Womens wedding attire is difficult because it's a dress that is typically worn once and then either passed on or never worn again. Every bride wants a dress that is unique yet fashionable so there's a lot of wiggle room in terms of what would make sense for a fictional woman to incorporate into her wedding dress.

Because of this the biggest tell on time period is silhouette as that's something that changes over time and plays heavily into what people would consider attractive.

so true, my sister got married in 1968 and I made her wedding dress (it turned out really well). As of a few years ago she still had it but was wondering what to do with it (but she has several grand-daughters so maybe one of them will wear it). The dress was similar to the one in the photo. Will have to see if I can find a picture.

 

[MelissaBaby]

The dress is sixties, the model is 2020s, I'd say.

Another new fashion is this "Google" thing.

https://weddbook.com/media/2522848/...ce-removable-train-mad-men-era-60s-white-gown

 

[Bramblethorn]

Just as we were about to quit and head to Ashlyn's French place for dinner, I had a break-through in a bridal shop. I managed to find the perfect wedding dress. It was simple and tasteful - a sleeveless number in ivory and satin with a squarish neckline and going down just to the floor. It was embroidered with simple white roses. It was about twice as good as my previously pencilled in dress and about twice the price. Though just within our budget if we made savings elsewhere.

Off on a tangent from what you were asking about, but you have three sentences in a row beginning with "it was". If this was for a story, I'd be looking to vary that structure more.

Beyond that, agree with other comments - for a wedding dress, rather than buying that specific dress off the rack, you'd more likely be getting the shop to make one off the same pattern but fitted to your specific measurements.

Wedding stuff tends to come with a huge mark-up; one friend of mine found the cost of a hire car tripled if she mentioned it was for a wedding, and for dresses in particular, a professional will often charge whatever you can get away with. So for the frugal-minded bride who can sew, or has friends who can, DIY is often a good option. In that case, she might go window shopping to get ideas for what she wanted, but would then look for a suitable pattern and buy the fabric.

This professional curmudgeon (yes, his clients pay him to give advice) is saying that expensive weddings cause financial problems. Worth a listen if you can handle this guy.

The trend that I find really obnoxious is where people shift the cost of an expensive wedding onto the guests. "Venue weddings" held at some island resort where everybody attending needs to pay thousands for airfare and accommodation, and then the bride and groom get surly with family who choose not to go...

 

[TheRedChamber]

Off on a tangent from what you were asking about, but you have three sentences in a row beginning with "it was". If this was for a story, I'd be looking to vary that structure more.

Fair enough. First draft and I probably wrote those sentences ten minutes apart as I crawled through my Internet research.

 

[AWhoopsieDaisy]

This professional curmudgeon (yes, his clients pay him to give advice) is saying that expensive weddings cause financial problems. Worth a listen if you can handle this guy.

Look not everything that makes sense for a character to do or wear is smart. I'm not here to critique wedding culture, I'm here to explain outfits.

 

[AWhoopsieDaisy]

This thread is probably a good place to ask: for men who have been able-bodied and under say 50, do you sit down to put trousers on, or do it standing up? Ditto removing them. Does it depend on the style - eg eg more careful for a tailored suit, one-legged for jeans? Sitting and two legs at a time for joggers, which is what stores here call sweatpants nowadays?

Actually, same question for women.

I don't put any on whilst sitting down. It never occurred to me to do that in anything but a standing position. However I will sit on the floor to put on socks because my sock drawer is always on the bottom so sitting down to dig for a lone socks match is a common enough occurrence that I wind up putting my socks on with my butt on the floor.

Note: I have a cat so sitting down is guaranteed to get cat hair all over me.

 

[grey228]

Men's clothing is so much simpler.

Appearances can be deceiving. I'm very picky with my clothes, so I can hide what I'm carrying while being able to draw easily should the need arise.

I'm also picky about my footwear - has to be sturdy but not outlandish or alarming looking.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Depends. In a cramped area, like the back of a car, sitting down to do both. Other areas, for informal, standing.

With suit pants, I usually sit to carefully pull my pants up past my knees, then stand. The reverse to take them off. Unless my interview was shit, then I don't care.

Excellent. I have a character standing on a footstool who's asked to remove his suit trousers (having already removed his shoes), so just wanted to check that was possible for your average guy.

Sitting down to put trousers on? That's the oddest concept I've heard of in quite a while! That's just... odd.

Ooh, get you, with your sense of balance and ability to stand on one leg while getting the other into the right hole first time! That's quite a feat of coordination.

Having to sit down to put shoes or boots on is quite common for elderly people as well as us malcoordinated types, not that that seems to have filtered down to American airport staff. I swear, almost all the times I've had to pull out my best English cut-glass accent in the the last decades have been when dealing with American borders. "Why of course, darling, I'd be delighted to remove my boots for you, the minute you provide somewhere for me to sit down!" (waves walking stick imperiously)

I have to admit to getting quite a kick out of just sitting up on the X-ray machine and getting a TSA operative to kneel down and unlace my boots for me.

 

[Rustyoznail]

FWIW, I'm pushing 60 and standing on a stool would be okay, but just a bit worrying.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

FWIW, I'm pushing 60 and standing on a stool would be okay, but just a bit worrying.

Yeah, I'm having to describe the wretched piece of furniture quite carefully to avoid readers worrying! More of a small very solid occasional table, I suppose. Only about 18 inches high, couple feet square.

Of course now I'm thinking about unleashing all the dominant and sadistic tendencies I have (not actually that many!) onto the very deserving TSA. At the time I was just thinking they wouldn't shoot me in front of my family and thousands of other onlookers... I hoped.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Look not everything that makes sense for a character to do or wear is smart. I'm not here to critique wedding culture, I'm here to explain outfits.

Sorry, thread drift is always a trap for the unwary.

By the way, would you also do a guide to women's hairstyles? I find those difficult to describe sometimes. Recent times, however you define that, would be fine. I've yet to write anything set before about 1912.

 

[gunhilltrain]

The trend that I find really obnoxious is where people shift the cost of an expensive wedding onto the guests. "Venue weddings" held at some island resort where everybody attending needs to pay thousands for airfare and accommodation, and then the bride and groom get surly with family who choose not to go...

This is the first time I've ever heard of "venue weddings." That shows how far down the social scale I am.

 

[Duleigh]

Shoes - no wedges?
BTW, "Flipflops" are called Thongs in Western New York also (But then we also call soft drinks "Pop")
Proper attire - when is a blazer more appropriate than a tux and when would a frock coat be appropriate

 

[pink_silk_glove]

No wedges??

The modern American terms for sandals are slides and thongs. If it has a column between the toe it's a thong (imagine the toe webbing as ass crack ). If the feet just slide in, it's a slide. Trust me, I work in retail.

We could get into dress cuts and such and I probably will (if no one else jumps in first) but for now my best piece of advice for writing clothes is to start describing patterns prints and textures. All too often our heroine is in a long green dress or our hero is in a dark grey suit and blue tie. We never get past solid colors! If you put her in a long green satin mermaid gown with a silver floral micro print and the leading man in a dark grey Italian cut suit with a baby-blue and copper striped tie, you're way ahead of 98% of all other lit writers.

 

[alohadave]

Having to sit down to put shoes or boots on is quite common for elderly people as well as us malcoordinated types, not that that seems to have filtered down to American airport staff. I swear, almost all the times I've had to pull out my best English cut-glass accent in the the last decades have been when dealing with American borders. "Why of course, darling, I'd be delighted to remove my boots for you, the minute you provide somewhere for me to sit down!" (waves walking stick imperiously)

I think that most people put on their shoes sitting down. I have all my life. Unless I'm slipping on something like slippers or rain boots that my feet can slide into, sitting down is the way.

Taking them off is a different matter, and unless I have to unlace boots, I kick off my shoes.

 

[PennameWombat]

This thread is probably a good place to ask: for men who have been able-bodied and under say 50, do you sit down to put trousers on, or do it standing up? Ditto removing them. Does it depend on the style - eg eg more careful for a tailored suit, one-legged for jeans? Sitting and two legs at a time for joggers, which is what stores here call sweatpants nowadays?

Actually, same question for women.

Sitting down to put trousers on? That's the oddest concept I've heard of in quite a while! That's just... odd.

You apparently don't have balance issues. For some of us, standing on one leg to do something like putting trousers on while standing is akin to dancing with death. Well, falling over... The faster I'm moving, the more stable I am, which is why people wonder how I could and still can play soccer but if I'm standing still I waver and walking slowly I weave and it's not unknown to need to shuffle. Has worsened with age, so that's another aspect to the original question. (No, not Parkinson's.)

So... define 'able bodied.'

 

[ElectricBlue]

You apparently don't have balance issues. For some of us, standing on one leg to do something like putting trousers on while standing is akin to dancing with death. Well, falling over... The faster I'm moving, the more stable I am, which is why people wonder how I could and still can play soccer but if I'm standing still I waver and walking slowly I weave and it's not unknown to need to shuffle. Has worsened with age, so that's another aspect to the original question. (No, not Parkinson's.)

So... define 'able bodied.'

I realised not long after I posted it, that my response wasn't as thoughtful as it could have been.

From a story telling point of view, if an observation on anything isn't critical to the tell, the less specific the better, I think. That way, any reader can apply their own criteria to whatever it is, and the author doesn't have to accommodate the condition of every possible reader.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

We could get into dress cuts and such and I probably will (if no one else jumps in first) but for now my best piece of advice for writing clothes is to start describing patterns prints and textures.

Agree on this - texture in particular because the characters are going to want their hands on each other, right?

All too often our heroine is in a long green dress or our hero is in a dark grey suit and blue tie. We never get past solid colors! If you put her in a long green satin mermaid gown with a silver floral micro print and the leading man in a dark grey Italian cut suit with a baby-blue and copper striped tie, you're way ahead of 98% of all other lit writers.

Personally I think this is a bit too detailed with jargon. I'm reasonably familiar with clothing descriptions (subject to transatlantic divide), but I have no idea what a 'mermaid gown' is, and I'm not sure what you mean by 'floral micro print' in this context. I'd go for something like her long forest-green dress shimmered with tiny silver flowers, the angular cut across her shins
reminding me of a mermaid. It drew attention to her rather elegant calves, which it seemed I'd never properly noticed previously.

Italian-cut suit is presumably fashionable and slim-fit? Though baby-blue and copper together sound hideous. Is the guy supposed to look like a sleazy rich mafia boss? A 'designer silk tie' might give the impression of stylishness without putting any reader off.

I'm currently writing a character in a 'short black dress'. It's velvet (more likely velour or velveteen, but I'm not going there), which is relevant as it's rubbing against someone's naked skin. And her legs are visible to be admired. The dress may get mentioned as stretchy at some point - the wearer is short and curvaceous. The naked character wouldn't notice anything more than that, I'm sure!

 

[PennameWombat]

I realised not long after I posted it, that my response wasn't as thoughtful as it could have been.

From a story telling point of view, if an observation on anything isn't critical to the tell, the less specific the better, I think. That way, any reader can apply their own criteria to whatever it is, and the author doesn't have to accommodate the condition of every possible reader.

No worries. I likely took the comment more seriously than you’d meant it.

Your second point, indeed. When I’ve had a character pulling on trousers or such, I’ve never had reason to specify whether they were standing, sitting or levitating, one leg at a time or two. Them getting dressed was incidental to the key point of the scene (One of the rare cases, Asha has just gotten a phone call from her friend Tracy and the scene was Asha’s thoughts on what was wrong as she changed into jeans and a shirt. But, I mainly detailed it to show the knife she strapped to her ankle, which she did do while seated, not due to anything personal but because it seemed reasonably natural, that she’d be seated while she pulled up her jeans and strapped the knife onto her calf while distracted thinking about Tracy.)

 

[Voboy]

This thread is probably a good place to ask: for men who have been able-bodied and under say 50, do you sit down to put trousers on, or do it standing up? Ditto removing them. Does it depend on the style - eg eg more careful for a tailored suit, one-legged for jeans? Sitting and two legs at a time for joggers, which is what stores here call sweatpants nowadays?

Actually, same question for women.

Standing up, natch.

I laughed when I saw the initial shoe graphic that pointed out how Antipodeans call flip-flops "thongs." When I was growing up in 1980s California, we also called them thongs. I have to stop myself, nowadays, from doing that.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Personally I think this is a bit too detailed with jargon. I'm reasonably familiar with clothing descriptions (subject to transatlantic divide), but I have no idea what a 'mermaid gown' is, and I'm not sure what you mean by 'floral micro print' in this context. I'd go for something like her long forest-green dress shimmered with tiny silver flowers, the angular cut across her shins
reminding me of a mermaid. It drew attention to her rather elegant calves, which it seemed I'd never properly noticed previously.

As I said, I could get into cuts and likely will when I have a little time to do so, because knowing cuts (both as a writer and as a reader) is an easy way to project the image without a long descriptive phrase. If you don't care for the jargon, that's fine too. No big deal.

For the record, a mermaid cut is an evening gown that hugs the hips and thighs before fanning out and sometimes even pools at the feet in a small train. If you write 'mermaid gown' then you don't have to write out 'evening gown that hugs the thighs and fans out below the knee'.

Fine, you don't know what a mermaid gown is, but you do know what a pencil skirt is. You know what a spaghetti strap top is. You know what bellbottom jeans are. You know what a cropped satin jacket is, etc. These are all cuts.

Italian-cut suit is presumably fashionable and slim-fit? Though baby-blue and copper together sound hideous. Is the guy supposed to look like a sleazy rich mafia boss? A 'designer silk tie' might give the impression of stylishness without putting any reader off.

We're not judging the style or the character here. I just picked out some clothes in 5 seconds off the top of my head. The point being that whether you like this guy who you assume to be a mafia boss or not, you can picture him in more detail than just 'grey suit and blue tie'.

And again for the record, yes an Italian cut suit is a sleeker fit with sharp shoulders and an unvented hem.

As for your examples, they give their own form of detail and that's excellent. Therefore you don't necessarily need my advice, but time and time again we see wardrobe descriptions like blue shirt and black jeans, black miniskirt and yellow top, period. For those folks who are writing their fashion in this way, the simplest way to put some detail into your character's wardrobes is to get away from having all solid colors. The world that gets created is all solid colors, blue t-shirt black shorts etc. Sure, there can always be some solids, but no one in this world is wearing stripes? Polka-dots? Floral prints? Logo tees? Plaid pants? And then to take it into textures, no one is wearing velvet? Sheer or tulle? Laces and grommets (except maybe the BDSM crowd )? Not even a knit cable? Sure, most of the veteran writers here in the hangouts do add detail and likely don't need this tip, but for all the amateurs out there (and I don't mean amateur in any derogatory way) adding some patterns and textures make a huge difference.

 

[ElectricBlue]

And again for the record, yes an Italian cut suit is a sleeker fit with sharp shoulders and an unvented hem.

Paul Keating, our most infamous parliamentary performer and one time Prime Minister, was well known for his elegant sartorial style, typified by his Italian suits.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Mules?

 

[AWhoopsieDaisy]

Sorry, thread drift is always a trap for the unwary.

By the way, would you also do a guide to women's hairstyles? I find those difficult to describe sometimes. Recent times, however you define that, would be fine. I've yet to write anything set before about 1912.

That's next on my list. It won't be comprehensive but hopefully it will give more vocab to use in general.

 

[gunhilltrain]

That's next on my list. It won't be comprehensive but hopefully it will give more vocab to use in general.

Thank you, I'm looking forward to it. For me, the years 1950 to about 2000 would cover most of it. I know some writers go back to much earlier eras than that.