Debating a Few Philosophies of BDSM - Love, Kink, Lust, Etc

[Primalex]

You have yet to answer my question about how your categorization of "casual BDSM = abuse" helps those who suffer abuse in long term "loving BDSM" arrangements. You have continually refused to even acknowledge such a thing even exists.

Cutie, I will answer for him:
"There is no abuse in loving BDSM relationships!

Because if there is abuse, it's not a loving BDSM relationship!"

Simple.

Ta-da.

He will use more words and add some ~smiles~, but this will be the result.


Your attempts have been honorable, CM, I hope you stop them before they will be foolish.

 

[CutieMouse]

Your attempts have been honorable, CM, I hope you stop them before they will be foolish.

Careful for complimenting me; you'll be lumped into the ignorant/mob rule/clique/abusive assholes category.

 

[Primalex]

Careful for complimenting me; you'll be lumped into the ignorant/abusive assholes category.

Well, then he would have, finally, at least one point right.

 

[Keroin]

And the cat came back, the very next day.
The cat came back, we thought he was a goner,
but the cat came back,
he just couldn't stay awaaaaaay.



(I think he has a crush on us).

 

[chy_girl]

And ya know what? I can go to the Playground board and find dozens (if not hundreds) of members who get all sorts of hot and bothered about their version of BDSM - which usually involves some degree of "Oh gosh I've been a bad bad girl... I guess I have to be punished... Please! Please don't thrown me in that brier patch Master!! Wait - what do you mean clean the kitchen? I want to be punished! You're supposed to spank me!"

*snort*
I wish...

And the cat came back, the very next day.
The cat came back, we thought he was a goner,
but the cat came back,
he just couldn't stay awaaaaaay.



(I think he has a crush on us).

*dies*

 

[Primalex]

The good thing about hypocrites is that they fuck up sooner or later and negate their very own point of view:

BDSM is an expression of Love.

If it is not an expression of Love, it is not BDSM.

 

[graceanne]

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h284/graceanne1978/Do-not-feed-the-troll-2.png

Seriously. As I said in another thread, if we said the sky was blue he'd say it's neon pink, just to be contrary and annoy us. He's a troll, one smart enough to not come in here hurling obscenities. (Although I'm positive that ~smiles~=fuck you.)

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

~exasperated headshake~

 

[sb2009]

~smiles~

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

sorry, twas an accident

 

[Seurat]

you'll be lumped into the ignorant/mob rule/clique/abusive assholes category.

We're all there by default because we post, and are therefore members of the 'casual BDSM community' by default, regardless of personal views.

 

[BLoved]

sorry, twas an accident

lol

I was wondering why this had re-surfaced.

 

[Stella_Omega]

The first page has excellent, well-reasoned rebuttals to Bloved's argument. You can see the progression from that to exasperation, as he brushes aside or ignores people's responses, in favor of repeating himself over and over and over.

Well-- you can. I doubt that Bloved can.

 

[Kikori]

Despite that this topic seems to be left in the dust, I find a few important questions left unanswered.

Show me where I "assassinated" your character, please. Please link examples of where I verbally abused you.

Someone who so often believes he's become the martyr, punching bag, and target of abuse can't find it where he's been insulted by someone he claims contributed to the "assassination" of his character. Whether or not this topic is old, and whether or not this unanswered question is old, it's still an entirely valid point. Someone who believes he's a victim has to be able to prove he's been attacked before he can ask for any sort of pity or acknowledgment that he's been unfairly treated.

You have yet to answer my question about how your categorization of "casual BDSM = abuse" helps those who suffer abuse in long term "loving BDSM" arrangements. You have continually refused to even acknowledge such a thing even exists.

Therefore since ignoring a situation [the dangers of abuse in "casual BDSM" relationships] equates acceptance of abuse, I have no option other than to presume you support abuse in long term "loving BDSM" relationships.[/quote]

As CutieMouse said, forming trollish arguments with people who are only put into the "abusive casual" category by Bloved himself is in no way showing how discussing the ethics equates to protecting the soon-to-be-victims. It need not BE said because we know it, the veterans here know for a bloody fact that they're not out to deceive who they're currently with, so this "casual" label put on us by Bloved is pretty much a grouping for anyone who doesn't agree with him.
The only way that can really be disproved is by describing why. Why was the label given. Why does the label of "manipulative casual BDSM predator" relate to each of us. Why are some of our relationships in the category of "casual". And why does our way of showing "love" have to align perfectly with his way, as opposed to being called "abuse" due to the process simply being different.
Even then, that doesn't answer the question at hand. How does putting an insulting title on everyone here help those who may become victims of predators? If this forum's contents were played worldwide, I could understand, but the amount of people who visit this forum is very small. Heck, just look at the stats.
This topic - 2,992 views.
Ethics of casual "bdsm" - 20,552 views.
Even at the best case scenario, assuming many regulars here didn't view the topic without responding to it, that would come out to 21,389 original views. Out of billions of potential victims, only the tiniest chunk have even noticed his topic. That's only .018% of this forum's registered member count, to put it in perspective. So, for the third time. In what way does starting a topic on this website save the potential victims of the world from being victims of predators?

And since you ignored my previous request -

I would sincerely appreciate it if you could please help me understand what is unethical about the relationship below:

"We have been seeing one another for almost 3 months now. Neither one of us is married. After dating for a month or so we both decided to stop seeing anyone else (even casually). Prior to that decision, we discussed the fact that there may be other people in our lives, and made sure we each felt okay with that. On our fourth date he asked me if four dates was enough to get a goodnight kiss; I said no. If he was that interested he could wait until I felt comfortable/safe enough with him to be intimate - he was interested enough to wait until I felt comfortable and safe. Neither of us wants to marry or live together. When either of us has an emotional/mental/spiritual/physical "hiccup" - we talk openly and honestly about it. Neither one of us believes in "True Love" "The One" or anything like that. The idea of going to clubs and dungeons and such bores us to tears, so we don't. Fabulously laid back sort of thing, really... we're actually developing one hell of a fabulous friendship. "

Bloved's biggest response to one of the above questions, "Why are some of our relationships casual" is that we show any kind of abuse (most likely physical, occasionally another). With abuse, we are not showing love. Without showing love, we are casual.
Ignoring that (but still waiting on a response as to why) flogging someone who enjoys it doesn't count as an act of love, CutieMouse's question still stands. The above relationship is still left without an answer as to just why it's unethical.

Without providing an answer to any of these questions, the ones he's been repeatedly dodging and avoiding, there's no backbone to pretty much any case he's been making. Without backbone, it all winds up falling under what golden rule number two prohibits. *Points to the attachment*

Free speech protects his rights to have his opinion. But No Spam is quite literally the debunking point of all the crap he's failed to defend and played around with for a month now.

 

[BLoved]

just look at the stats.
This topic - 2,992 views.
Ethics of casual "bdsm" - 20,552 views.
Even at the best case scenario, assuming many regulars here didn't view the topic without responding to it, that would come out to 21,389 original views. Out of billions of potential victims, only the tiniest chunk have even noticed his topic. That's only .018% of this forum's registered member count, to put it in perspective. So, for the third time. In what way does starting a topic on this website save the potential victims of the world from being victims of predators?

So if I can't help everyone I should quit and help no one.

 

[Seurat]

So if I can't help everyone I should quit and help no one.

I said something along the same lines to you, just after you deleted all of your works. I asked how they could influence people, if the works were no longer there. Wouldn't it have been better to leave them up on the chance they could have influenced somebody?

 

[Kikori]

So if I can't help everyone I should quit and help no one.

Problem is, I said "best case scenario" for a reason. I doubt even half of those views are from people who haven't already posted and been labeled "casual" by you. (i.e. the regulars of this forum.)

Bigger problem. You're STILL avoiding answering the question left here since April.

You have yet to answer my question about how your categorization of "casual BDSM = abuse" helps those who suffer abuse in long term "loving BDSM" arrangements. You have continually refused to even acknowledge such a thing even exists.

Until you can prove how making an asshat out of yourself is helping people, it's still only spam being spewed from you.

So, to more accurately answer your question, until you can actually make it clear and prove how you're "helping" rather than clotting up the forum, yes. I'd rather you give up than "help" people.
Start actually proving anything and answering the questions you've been given, and that view will very likely change.

 

[BLoved]

I said something along the same lines to you, just after you deleted all of your works. I asked how they could influence people, if the works were no longer there. Wouldn't it have been better to leave them up on the chance they could have influenced somebody?

And I told everyone that the stories can help no one if the ratings are so low that they fail to make the top list.

Otherwise they're just three stories out of thousands in the general bdsm list.

Instead I focused on the discussions here.

Now the stories are going back up, and we'll see how far down the list the casual community can keep them. If they keep them down far enough, I'll delete them and re-submit them yet again.

In the meantime I'll continue with the discussions here.

We'll see what kind of difference one man can make against a mob.

 

[BLoved]

So, to more accurately answer your question, until you can actually make it clear and prove how you're "helping" rather than clotting up the forum, yes. I'd rather you give up than "help" people.

Then I guess it is fortunate for those I help that opinions such as yours mean nothing to me.

 

[Kikori]

Which is entirely NOT what you told me when you responded on the 27th to my PM. It's kind of not possible to appreciate someone for their opinion if their opinions mean nothing. ^_^

 

[BLoved]

Which is entirely NOT what you told me when you responded on the 27th to my PM. It's kind of not possible to appreciate someone for their opinion if their opinions mean nothing. ^_^

Who else here commands so much attention that so many have made such efforts to discredit one man?

And here is what I said to you:

I am sure in your own way you are trying to be helpful, but I rather doubt anyone here has a shoulder I can rely on.

I've not read your post of objections. Whenever I hover over a link it appears you would send me to something called "mrdictionary", and to be honest I am not interested in what appears to be a game of 'gotcha'. I note an edit and apology, no idea what that was about.

However, I do recall something unkind from you last night in another thread in which I am a participant.

Whatever comfort I am to find, somehow I doubt you will be involved.

I appreciate the effort and wish you well.