Disappointments

[MaxSebastian]

So, if you've got the series finished, how should you submit it? All at once? Let a day, or two, or a week pass between chapters?
TIA

I don't know if there is a "should" for how you submit it. If you've got your series completed, which is the ideal, sure enough, then you could publish it all as one long mammoth story, taking dozens of Lit pages.

You could publish it as separate chapters or parts, as different "story" submissions. My argument for doing it this way is that when a reader calls up stories randomly, if your long story is broken into different chapters, you have more chance of being randomly selected by a reader than with a single post.

When publishing separate chapters, some of the writers on here seem to advise posting your first chapter/part, then waiting until it goes live on the site before posting the next one (usually takes 3-4 days to go live), so that your chapters are published in the right order. It's a pain for readers if they get interested in chapter 7 of a story from the "new" list, then click through to your name and find there's no chapter 6 yet. Even if you submit chapters in the right order, there's a chance you'll accidentally hit the "pending" link and send one or more of those chapters back to the end of the publish queue.

But, it's up to you ultimately how you do it.

 

[CarlusMagnus]

Hmmm, not sure I want to step into this minefield, but since I'm working on a series I was reading this with interest. A few comments have me wondering.

PennLady said, "I think it is ideal to finish a work before posting..." and then Carlus Magnus said, "I post each book complete, though for its own reasons, Lit publishes them one each day after I post them."

So, if you've got the series finished, how should you submit it? All at once? Let a day, or two, or a week pass between chapters?
TIA

I don't think it makes any difference. I post about six to eight chapters all at once. They're all approved three to five days later, but are released then at a rate of one per day.

Posting them all at once does mean that they're subject to the variations in time between your posting and their appearance only once, though.

 

[estragon]

This discussion could go on at even greater length, and probably will, whether here or on some other thread. And if it should die out here, as I suppose it will eventually, it will be revived, either here or (hopefully) elsewhere, the next time some hapless author fails to post a further chapter of a series quickly enough to satisfy whomever.

But the answer is simple enough. Let the author beware. And, readers, if an author disappoints you once, strike him/her off your to-read list. In short, screw me once, shame on you; screw me twice, shame on me.

 

[CarlusMagnus]

This discussion could go on at even greater length, and probably will, whether here or on some other thread. And if it should die out here, as I suppose it will eventually, it will be revived, either here or (hopefully) elsewhere, the next time some hapless author fails to post a further chapter of a series quickly enough to satisfy whomever.

But the answer is simple enough. Let the author beware. And, readers, if an author disappoints you once, strike him/her off your to-read list. In short, screw me once, shame on you; screw me twice, shame on me.

Excellent advice.

You missed only one point: Let the reader beware, too.

 

[Karenas]

Thank you MaxSebastian and CarlusMagnus for answering my question!

 

[TinyBeth]

I certainly am disappointed when I realise a series I am reading doesn't have an ending, but I don't feel owed anything as a reader. However, due to this advice from others on this thread, I think instead of writing a series of chapters I will instead write self-contained stories and use sequels if I want to work with the same characters again. That way there is no "end" that I haven't all ready come up with.

 

[CarlusMagnus]

I certainly am disappointed when I realise a series I am reading doesn't have an ending, but I don't feel owed anything as a reader. However, due to this advice from others on this thread, I think instead of writing a series of chapters I will instead write self-contained stories and use sequels if I want to work with the same characters again. That way there is no "end" that I haven't all ready come up with.

That's certainly a workable strategy, but with my stuff it would make for some very long chapters.

And there are a lot of readers who simply won't look at a story that's more than a few pages long.

 

[estragon]

That said, GoodyGoodyTwoShoes has a twelve-pager in the Summer Lovin' that bids fair to take a place. Exceptions abound, rules tend to be fragile, and it's gambler's choice: ya pays yer money and yer takes yer chances.

 

[Brandie69]

I have an old scuffed-up package here. I can make out the word "food" on the label, and the letter "t."

So it could be "food for thought." Or equally, "food for trolls."

When is a story truly done? I know, there are the obvious cases, but I don't care about them.

I just submitted a story where all characters performed the promised actions. Everything foreshadowed was done. The main conflict of the story was resolved. But at the end of it, the leading actress' principal climax caused the supporting actor to become hard again. So, as with many Hollywood movies these days, I did the old "leaving it open to a sequel" by having the girl invite him to sit next to her. (Why does this remind me of the fact that hot dogs and buns are never packaged in the same quantities? But I digress.)

It could be left that way forever, in the category of "leave the rest up to the reader's imagination." Is that story finished, or have I created a "social contract" with my reader(s)?

It seems to me that the alternative is that you must type out the words "and at long last, they both died," before you can click on "submit."

I must admit that, with at least one story that I keep getting requests to continue, I have thought about typing those words. Well, ok, not really.

Also, someone in this thread essentially said that a timely sequel is one that is there when the reader is ready for it. But that's an impossible standard. I see that some of you folks submit multi-chapter stories all at one time, and that the Mystical Powers That Be dole them out to the masses something like one chapter a day. Well, what if the reader is just on the verge of, um, let's say, needing the next chapter on day 1? Even though the author has already submitted that sequel, does the reader's need make it untimely?

Ah, what is my point, you ask?

I guess I would say this: there are the obvious cases and then there's everything else. The obvious cases are where the girl just barely gets Herc Hunkinghood naked and the author writes "To be continued..." and then entire Martian years elapse with no further movement. Even in those obvious cases, there seems to be some disagreement in this thread between those who say that Herc's deflowering has to be written before "submit" is pressed, and those who think that some (as of yet unspecified) reasonable time may be allowed to pass.

But I'm interested to know what folks think about the in-between cases. The ones that have a denouement but leave a hint at possible sequels. Is there an implied obligation? And if so, an obligation of what, precisely?

There, I've said it. Do your worst.

 

[TinyBeth]

Fortunately my stories (so far only one is up) are fairly short. About 4800 words or so. I had thought to do a further series with the same characters, but not have them be numbered chapters and instead have each one be a self-contained story. If my story doesn't get much input back though I will probably see that as a sign to move on to other characters instead of further exploring the same ones.

 

[PennLady]

But I'm interested to know what folks think about the in-between cases. The ones that have a denouement but leave a hint at possible sequels. Is there an implied obligation? And if so, an obligation of what, precisely?

There, I've said it. Do your worst.

FWIW, leaving a few ends open or having an ambiguous ending does not (IMO) obligate an author to write a sequel unless they want to.

When I wrote and finished Nothing Gets Through, I had a number of comments saying, where's the rest? There wasn't a rest. I was finished. It might not have been the traditional or expected ending, and yes it wasn't as "closed" as some might be, but it was done. I reached the point I aimed for. No sequel.

I think what most readers dislike, and with good reason, is an obviously unfinished story. But on a free site, that's the risk you take, again IMO.

 

[TxRad]

FWIW, leaving a few ends open or having an ambiguous ending does not (IMO) obligate an author to write a sequel unless they want to.

When I wrote and finished Nothing Gets Through, I had a number of comments saying, where's the rest? There wasn't a rest. I was finished. It might not have been the traditional or expected ending, and yes it wasn't as "closed" as some might be, but it was done. I reached the point I aimed for. No sequel.

I think what most readers dislike, and with good reason, is an obviously unfinished story. But on a free site, that's the risk you take, again IMO.

I've only written one long serious series. ten chapters. I have one or two others at 3 chapter. And yeah, I have two unfinished ones. Both of which I keep forgetting about. One i got sidetracked on and got my main character out of character. I need to trash most of the next chapter i have and start it over. The other, I have so many ways to go, I can't make up my mind.

But the point I was gong to make was, I write one shot stories for the most part. I never intend for there to be a sequel. The only problem is every time I post a story, someone wants to know when the next chapter will be out. I write long stories, I can't wrote any other way. If I finished out every story to the very end, I would write nothing but novels.

 

[McBacon]

I take it as a sign of a seasoned writer to write the story in completeness before posting. And I understand that there are many benefits to writing the complete story in terms of being able to tune the story arc and have better story consistency. I think it also shows a lot of patience on the part of the author.

But personally, I have a hard time waiting. I get a rush of adrenaline when I get feedback on the story, whether it is positive or negative, and I take that energy to help drive through the next chapter.

And maybe more importantly, I find benefits as a novice writer to get rapid feedback which goes into a making the next chapter better, or even re-working previous chapters for stupid mistakes. It is sort of like "lean" process of story writing for novices like me working on my craft.

And as a long time reader long before starting writing, I can tell you that it doesn't matter how long there is between chapters. If the story is compelling enough, you will get and keep readers. You know you are doing something right when you get people asking for the next chapter.

That said, I do think it is much easier on the reader to write the whole thing and post it with short durations in between if you have the patience to do the right thing. Sounds like if you post it all at once in chapter forms, the site will time release them with a day interval between. Kind of a nifty feature, I think.

I think you mostly run into problems with out of sequence story chapters if you try posting them in different categories. At least that's been my experience.

 

[CarlusMagnus]

It seems to me that the alternative is that you must type out the words "and at long last, they both died," before you can click on "submit."

You can always write a very short ending chapter, in which they've been carried away by passion and are doing the Dirty Deed right there in the highway at night when an eighteen-wheeler rolls over them at 70 mph. After they've come, of course.

Or maybe on the railroad tracks? You could even work their orgasms into that one: The earth really was moving!

No "at long last" about those scenarios!

 

[TxRad]

You can always write a very short ending chapter, in which they've been carried away by passion and are doing the Dirty Deed right there in the highway at night when an eighteen-wheeler rolls over them at 70 mph. After they've come, of course.

Or maybe on the railroad tracks? You could even work their orgasms into that one: The earth really was moving!

No "at long last" about those scenarios!

I did that in the prolog to a NaNo novel. Killed off everyone with the intention of starting the story a few years after. I did that and then had my laptop stolen and lost everything but the prolog that I had on a backup.

I posted it here just for the fun of it. Some readers didn't care for it at all. All that character build up and sex and then... poof.

 

[CarlusMagnus]

I did that in the prolog to a NaNo novel. Killed off everyone with the intention of starting the story a few years after. I did that and then had my laptop stolen and lost everything but the prolog that I had on a backup.

I posted it here just for the fun of it. Some readers didn't care for it at all. All that character build up and sex and then... poof.

I should have known that someone else had already done it!

Sorry about the stolen laptop, though. Bummer!

 

[estragon]

Ultimate nightmare, stolen laptop. Every time I go through the #$%^@ screening to get on a plane, with my precious MacBook out of my sight, I get the jitters. And I'm on a flight next Friday.

TxRad, I feel for you, buddy.

 

[estragon]

McBacon: "I take it as a sign of a seasoned writer to write the story in completeness before posting."

True, McB. But Lit isn't solely for seasoned writers, be they amateurs or professionals.

So far as I am aware, there is no screening or advanced qualification required to post a story, a series, or a poem on Lit. Like the great marathon races, on Lit there are seasoned professionals with any number of published stories and novels, seasoned amateurs who are professional in all but actually getting paid for publishing (like the GMC trucks, they are "professional grade"), as well as rank amateurs like myself who've never sold fiction of any kind and most likely never will, and will never come close to the top grade on Lit; and we're all running on the same course.

So the reader, like the spectator at the marathon, will see the two-hour professional world class runners, the best of the amateurs from many countries, and, if they've the patience to wait for them, the eight-hour draggers who stagger in just before closing.

The reader just needs to sort them out. Generally, finding the pros isn't hard; they've all got track records, as do the best of the amateurs. The lower-grade amateurs and the newbies will need the most sorting, but the reader will most often, with a little patience, find his/her way to what s/he wants.

 

[lovecraft68]

I take it as a sign of a seasoned writer to write the story in completeness before posting. And I understand that there are many benefits to writing the complete story in terms of being able to tune the story arc and have better story consistency. I think it also shows a lot of patience on the part of the author.

But personally, I have a hard time waiting. I get a rush of adrenaline when I get feedback on the story, whether it is positive or negative, and I take that energy to help drive through the next chapter.

And maybe more importantly, I find benefits as a novice writer to get rapid feedback which goes into a making the next chapter better, or even re-working previous chapters for stupid mistakes. It is sort of like "lean" process of story writing for novices like me working on my craft.

And as a long time reader long before starting writing, I can tell you that it doesn't matter how long there is between chapters. If the story is compelling enough, you will get and keep readers. You know you are doing something right when you get people asking for the next chapter.

That said, I do think it is much easier on the reader to write the whole thing and post it with short durations in between if you have the patience to do the right thing. Sounds like if you post it all at once in chapter forms, the site will time release them with a day interval between. Kind of a nifty feature, I think.

I think you mostly run into problems with out of sequence story chapters if you try posting them in different categories. At least that's been my experience.

I take it as a sign of being a disciplined writer to start something and take it to completion.

And as I have said before, who cares what's easier on the reader?

Now I don;t mean that as harsh as it sounds, but fact is, this is a free site, we write for fun, practice, and to get some feedback. Or for some pro writers they put stuff here in hopes of drawing people to their paid work.

the readers here for the most part won;t take 2 seconds to vote and even fewer to comment.

But heaven forbid they don;t get complete stories, with amazing plots, perfect grammar and spectacular story telling.

I enjoy feedback and votes, I like seeing people bookmark me and love knowing people are getting a kick out of something I wrote.

But owe? and what's easier on them? Please.

Honestly, I think posting SWB one chapter at a time and writing as I went was helped by doing just that. When people posted they liked it, it made me push harder to finish.

If I were writing just for me, or didn't get any feedback until it was done, who knew if I would have finished it?

Anyway, seasoned my ass. I wrote SWB off the top of my head with some notes scribbled on a napkin. With all of a few months of writing behind me.

MY advice is don;t worry about it, don't overthink it, and most of all, just do it for you.

And if you can't finish for some reason? Oh, well, the freeloaders will move on to the next series.

 

[estragon]

The legend (or maybe it's press agent's puffery) says J. K. Rowling started the series on a paper napkin in a tea shop, when she was a broke single mother looking for a job, who had never written anything before.

 

[YDB95]

Other reports, though, say JKR had been writing since she was barely out of diapers, and that she got the initial idea for the Harry Potter saga on a train from Manchester to London. She was indeed on public assistance, but by at least some reports that was by choice because she wanted to focus on writing.

 

[estragon]

YDB, I'm not surprised. The tea shop story sounded like a press agent's fantasy.

 

[estragon]

People were criticizing SA Penn Lady's Summer Lovin' entry because the ending seemed short. Others wanted a sequel. I really enjoyed the story, but I guess it's impossible to write anything that doesn't disappoint at least a few readers.

 

[nakdsub]

I've made no bones concerning my opinions of trolls...

But this one takes the cake. A couple days ago there was a cute story about a cheating wife and husband called, Clandestine Rendezvous. I know, to hear me say a story about cheating was cute is unbelievable, but this one had a twist in the end that made it so.

Now, I'm not going to say the story was fantastic or that it was even original, but it did deserve a higher score than it received. Why? Because the fricking trolls were so dense they missed the point of the whole story...COMPLETELY!

This goes along with my theory that most of these idiots don't even read the stories they trash; either that, or they're so stupid they don't understand what they're reading.

So...my disappointment is that this story did not score better solely on the basis of imbeciles who can't read.

 

[estragon]

nakd, I don't know how many times this has been said, but I'll say it again, at the risk of wearying anyone who reads it. Lit is a victim of its own success. I think we all agree this is the premier erotic (or let's call it smutty) site. Aside from hot sex, there is an element of literacy here missing from the other sites I've seen. But as Someone remarked a long time ago, "where the carcass is, there will the vultures be gathered." The site attracts trolls; there's no help for it. And I'm not advocating that people have to join and sign in, in order to vote or comment. Free speech, like all other freedom, has a price.