Question. Can writers continue an abandoned story?

[TheRedChamber]

BTW, it would be good etiquette to say, "This series was inspired by the work of ...." in the author note.

-Rocco

You need to be careful with exactly how you word this. We had a case recently where a submission was rejected due to it being referred to as 'an adaptation'. See this thread.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

You need to be careful with exactly how you word this. We had a case recently where a submission was rejected due to it being referred to as 'an adaptation'. See this thread.

You're absolutely right. My Writing Group colleague, Annie, had a story bounced because she mentioned a story by another writer in the initial Author Note, and it was interpreted as her rewriting his story. I said "inspired" because that's the language Annie switched to, and that time it got approved.

-Rocco

 

[HaralLuhhan]

Hey I have another followup question,

I came across a story that had the words "inspired by xyz story". They even commented that they were unable to contact the author for permission after a month because they had been gone since 2012.

Out of curiosity, I looked up the story and compared them. The first few interactions with characters were almost word for word. I didnt compare further. But for example, where one might say "he heard her crying as she confessed" the revised one was slightly worded ""he heard her crying intermittently as she confessed" or something like that. So adding or changing one word out of a sentence. To be clear, the beginning of the story had paragraphs to as additional context too. But the original lines matched up pretty closely, but with different names.

I took from all the responses above that I should just follow the premise but write my own actions and dialog. Was I wrong? Or was this authors work too close to the original to be considered ok to do?

I'm thinking the latter but was wondering what the rest of you thought.

If I did take this second approach I'd try to make it quite different in descriptions and such, but it just seems wrong to make a few edits and call it mine.

 

[StillStunned]

I'd say it was definitely too close to be considered original.

 

[HaralLuhhan]

I'd say it was definitely too close to be considered original.

I read and compared a bit more. As it went on, they did add a fair bit of good detail, but the story and dialog from the original was still there.

In your estimation what should they do to make it more original, while preserving the same story beats?

 

[StillStunned]

Story beats can be identified and isolated. It shouldn't be too hard for an author to write their own story to those same beats.

As for how different a story needs to be to count as original: don't quote me on this, but I have a vague recollection about no more than 90% overlap with the original version. Personally, if I saw any story that included several sentences of mine with only one word changed, I wouldn't consider it original, I'd consider it theft. A new coat of paint doesn't make a stolen car any less stolen.

 

[HaralLuhhan]

Story beats can be identified and isolated. It shouldn't be too hard for an author to write their own story to those same beats.

As for how different a story needs to be to count as original: don't quote me on this, but I have a vague recollection about no more than 90% overlap with the original version. Personally, if I saw any story that included several sentences of mine with only one word changed, I wouldn't consider it original, I'd consider it theft. A new coat of paint doesn't make a stolen car any less stolen.

Agreed, although it turned out they did add a fair bit more than that. And the new author has done that with ~20 other stories too, and had them published. Some with permission from the original author and a few where they were unable to reach the author but did it anyway after a month.

I'm tempted to ask someone to look at both stories and see if they think its different enough but that seems too much to ask.

As for me all I had originally wanted to do was continue one. I could try writing a story similar to that one, using it as a reference, and started one, but my characters are hopefully quite different in personality and motives.

 

[CuttingEdge]

EDIT: Hi the OP post has been answered I have a related question on page 2 I'm about to post. Just adding this so people dont continue trying to answer this.

Hi, I'm new here and was wondering the etiquette of referring to and adding to existing stories.

I found a story I liked. 8 parts, entertaining read. It cut short of the (ahem) climax however.

The author abandoned it and the site apparently, 10 years ago.

So I was thinking it might be fun to try to add an ending chapter or two to it.

Author: https://www.literotica.com/authors/wordsinthedust/works/stories

And story is "Unintended Lolita".

Some things about the story:
- It's in the Incest/taboo section
- Despite the odd title, it depicts no underage characters (naturally). No idea what the author was thinking with the title.
- It deals with the budding relationship between a father and daughter. Really, the mother is also heavily involved.
- The story was excellent (imo) but the author used a lot of sudden and unmarked pov and scene changes that seemed jarring.
- It is a nice 'happy' story. No non consent, abuse, manipulation and so on.
- This 'world' oddly has no hangups about this type of relationship, at least not that the author acknowledged.

I figured I could do one or more of the following with it:

1. Clean up and repost each existing chapter under my account, while naturally crediting the original author, maybe giving it new life. As well as continuing it if I can.
2. Attempt to continue the story, while crediting and linking to the original one for reference
3. Mind my own business and write my own dang story
4. Go back to lurking and forget the idea, noob
5. Delete my account and never darken this site again!

Some 'challenges' for me:
I'm not an author. Never wrote anything substantial, never mind erotica. I figure I could follow the original writers lead for this exercise at least.
I'd make a better editor than an author probably.

I don't have a great imagination. I can think about story ideas but getting them on paper (or computer etc, you know what I mean) is another thing.

That all said, I've read a lot of stories on this site and I think I can do better than several of them. lol

I think it is morally wrong because it is not your story, and no story is ever truly done.

As a writer, I can take my story in a thousand directions with each consecutive sentence and just because it is not where YOU might take it, does not mean it's in a wrong direction. It is in a different direction, and often that is a plot twist to make the story unique. The same for endings. You call it "abandoned" but is it? Or did the writer just choose to end the story where you might not have?

I get this from readers all the time and it is one of the greatest compliments a writer can get... "but what about"... they might ask. That is perfect because with this story about completely made up people in made up places doing made up things, people feel a connection and want to know what happened next to the characters. In other words, they are emotionally invested in the story. But that does not mean the story did not end. It did. It is just that my character's life could have marched on, but the story, that ended.

It is perfectly fine to be inspired by a story so that you write your own, but not okay to take someone's hard work and think just because you would have taken it in a different direction, you can steal their creativity and rewrite it.

No story, novel, or screenplay I EVER wrote could not be improved upon, but its mine to do that, not yours.

Please, be inspired to write, not steal.

 

[HaralLuhhan]

I think it is morally wrong because it is not your story, and no story is ever truly done.

As a writer, I can take my story in a thousand directions with each consecutive sentence and just because it is not where YOU might take it, does not mean it's in a wrong direction. It is in a different direction, and often that is a plot twist to make the story unique. The same for endings. You call it "abandoned" but is it? Or did the writer just choose to end the story where you might not have?

I get this from readers all the time and it is one of the greatest compliments a writer can get... "but what about"... they might ask. That is perfect because with this story about completely made up people in made up places doing made up things, people feel a connection and want to know what happened next to the characters. In other words, they are emotionally invested in the story. But that does not mean the story did not end. It did. It is just that my character's life could have marched on, but the story, that ended.

It is perfectly fine to be inspired by a story so that you write your own, but not okay to take someone's hard work and think just because you would have taken it in a different direction, you can steal their creativity and rewrite it.

No story, novel, or screenplay I EVER wrote could not be improved upon, but its mine to do that, not yours.

Please, be inspired to write, not steal.

Yes that point has been made most thoroughly on page one. That's why I put that bold line in the OP.

But since you wanted to reply to it anyway, thanks, I appreciate your input.

I'm curious though about your second paragraph. I'm tempted to ask you to go read the story yourself and then tell me whether you agree it was abandoned or not. But that seems like a lot to ask. So let me tell you what would happen.

Either you' d read the story, but insist thats the way the author might have intended it to end, or you'd agree that it was abandoned because of all the unresolved plot points they set up but never resolved, but then say it doesnt matter, because yadda yadda about what else you said in your post.The actual point was that I shouldnt try to continue someone else story.

A point that I've already agreed to and accepted, after the very first reply to that post.

 

[DocWords]

EDIT: Hi the OP post has been answered I have a related question on page 2 I'm about to post. Just adding this so people dont continue trying to answer this.

Hi, I'm new here and was wondering the etiquette of referring to and adding to existing stories.

I found a story I liked. 8 parts, entertaining read. It cut short of the (ahem) climax however.

The author abandoned it and the site apparently, 10 years ago.

So I was thinking it might be fun to try to add an ending chapter or two to it.

Author: https://www.literotica.com/authors/wordsinthedust/works/stories

And story is "Unintended Lolita".

Some things about the story:
- It's in the Incest/taboo section
- Despite the odd title, it depicts no underage characters (naturally). No idea what the author was thinking with the title.
- It deals with the budding relationship between a father and daughter. Really, the mother is also heavily involved.
- The story was excellent (imo) but the author used a lot of sudden and unmarked pov and scene changes that seemed jarring.
- It is a nice 'happy' story. No non consent, abuse, manipulation and so on.
- This 'world' oddly has no hangups about this type of relationship, at least not that the author acknowledged.

I figured I could do one or more of the following with it:

1. Clean up and repost each existing chapter under my account, while naturally crediting the original author, maybe giving it new life. As well as continuing it if I can.
2. Attempt to continue the story, while crediting and linking to the original one for reference
3. Mind my own business and write my own dang story
4. Go back to lurking and forget the idea, noob
5. Delete my account and never darken this site again!

Some 'challenges' for me:
I'm not an author. Never wrote anything substantial, never mind erotica. I figure I could follow the original writers lead for this exercise at least.
I'd make a better editor than an author probably.

I don't have a great imagination. I can think about story ideas but getting them on paper (or computer etc, you know what I mean) is another thing.

That all said, I've read a lot of stories on this site and I think I can do better than several of them. lol

I freely give anyone to continue one or all of my stories. I’d love seeing what someone else would take them.

 

[PrimalDual]

What if I want to write a sequel to Around the World in Eighty Days, detailing what happens with Phileas and Aouda after they marry, especially their many sexual adventures which I will make up? (Maybe she lets him go around the world with her, LOL.)

Okay, that book's no longer under copyright. More seriously, and IANAL but there's plenty of Star Wars fan-fic out there, some of it pornographic. (Maybe Leia lets Han go around the universe with her.) A quick search of "Leia" turns up plenty on this site. As long as it's labeled as fan fiction and not official, and is not done for profit, such expression is generally permissible.

By extension, I don't see how writing a continuation of someone else's story here really violates any important principles, as long as the prior-art is acknowledged. Indeed it would be important to the second author to provide a link to the original, since most readers will not share the same memory or fascination with the story and any necessary context will be missing. And, in turn, I would think most authors here would in turn appreciate new readers being directed to some of their older work. (And if not, it's easy enough to take down one's own story if asked.)

 

[HaralLuhhan]

I freely give anyone to continue one or all of my stories. I’d love seeing what someone else would take them.

Nice of you. Want to post a link to your story page?

 

[StillStunned]

By extension, I don't see how writing a continuation of someone else's story here really violates any important principles, as long as the prior-art is acknowledged. Indeed it would be important to the second author to provide a link to the original, since most readers will not share the same memory or fascination with the story and any necessary context will be missing. And, in turn, I would think most authors here would in turn appreciate new readers being directed to some of their older work. (And if not, it's easy enough to take down one's own story if asked.)

The difference, I think, is that fanfic is very unlikely to take over the existing property. No-one reading a story about Leia and Han here on Lit is going to think it's the author's original world. Even if the author writes fifty stories, no-one will point to them and say, "That's the real Star Wars author, this is canon now."

That risk does exist with the works of amateur writers. The new writer's stories could eclipse the originals, whether in volume, quality or popularity, to the point where later readers will think of the second writer's stories as being originals.

 

[HaralLuhhan]

The difference, I think, is that fanfic is very unlikely to take over the existing property. No-one reading a story about Leia and Han here on Lit is going to think it's the author's original world. Even if the author writes fifty stories, no-one will point to them and say, "That's the real Star Wars author, this is canon now."

That risk does exist with the works of amateur writers. The new writer's stories could eclipse the originals, whether in volume, quality or popularity, to the point where later readers will think of the second writer's stories as being originals.

Not to argue the point, but that will happen eventually. Disney's snow white isnt an original work, but many people arent aware of the original story. Star Wars wasn't an original story either. You'd be hard pressed to find a modern story that wasnt inspired by another in the past. And no to get too far into a Star Wars debate, but some think Disney star wars shouldnt be canon, that it's changing too much from Lucas's original. Yet it is, whether we like it or not. At some point Lucas's work will be a distant memory, if not entirely forgotten.

On a site like this, is there really a danger of that? And if the second story, even if referencing the original, turns out to be more popular, is that a bad thing? Its just newer, more easy to come across because when its new it'll be shown on the main daily story page.

To reiterate, I'm perfectly happy and satisfied with the rules as presented, Just having a discussion.

 

[StillStunned]

It's fine if it's done with permission. And Lucas attached a price tag of four billion dollars to his permission, if I remember rightly.

And inspiration takes many forms. There are only so many archetypes, after all. But there's a difference between "inspired by" and "building on". A direct sequel or continuation is much more than "inspired by".

 

[THBGato]

I read and compared a bit more. As it went on, they did add a fair bit of good detail, but the story and dialog from the original was still there.

In your estimation what should they do to make it more original, while preserving the same story beats?

I'll give you an example, that I think fits.

I'm a huge fan of OneHitWanda (as you all should be). I'd been re-reading her stories Sandcastles and On the simplicity of words and wanted to try something similar. Both deal with childhood friends separated then reunited by fate. Both start with one of the characters narrating how the two of them met as children and how they came to be separated, the story often jumping forward in time from moment to moment, until the reunion. Then, after the tears and disbelief, there is some dancing around their attraction to each other before they finally give in to their feelings, sleep together, then plot a life together.

I love both those stories: they are superb. However, I feel the reunion in Sandcastles is just too serendipitous to be believed, while the reason for the girls being separated in On the simplicity... never made any sense to me.

In my story, Thirty, I followed Wanda's story beats. I changed the names, the locations, their relationship to each other and reason for their separation (I made them friends who became step-sisters and it was their parents' divorce and relocation to different countries that separated them: that seemed more logical). I set it in the 90s, pre social media, so there was a rationale to them not being able to stay in touch. I introduced the idea of mirrored eating disorders (one suffers from anorexia, the other has been obese in the past); in Wanda's originals, all characters had suffered from some form of mental health issues due to their separation, but this was a new touch. I aped Wanda's style, though refrained from consciously lifting any of her imagery or phrasing (though I did steal from various songs that soundtrack the story). The outcomes of the stories were all more or less the same but then.... it's the same ending as thousands of other stories on this site. At the end of the story, I acknowledged my influences, providing hyperlinks to Wanda's stories (and What have we done? by DarkFang).

Mine is my own story. But it definitely took a template from somebody else which I was more than happy to acknowledge (though, at heart, are these stories any different to Pip and Estella meeting as children, being separated and then reuniting as adults in Great Expectations?)

It's fine if it's done with permission.

Many authors will. The lovely WaxPhilosophic has given me permission to have one of her characters make a cameo appearance in my next story, while proseinthegarden has also given me permission to do the same in an, as yet, unwritten story.

That risk does exist with the works of amateur writers. The new writer's stories could eclipse the originals, whether in volume, quality or popularity, to the point where later readers will think of the second writer's stories as being originals.

A rare example of Bloom's apophrades effect? One would have thought that date of publication would give it away.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

Many authors will. The lovely WaxPhilosophic has given me permission to have one of her characters make a cameo appearance in my next story, while proseinthegarden has also given me permission to do the same in an, as yet, unwritten story.

There are shared universes on Literotica. @Joe_Doe_Stories invented a sex-story world that he freely lets other writers play in, notably Carl Bradford, @MrSmith27, @GentlemanMariner, Avicia, @cardman314, and several others. Less notably, including me. (I'm sure Joe would acknowledge other writers like Katie Smith.)

-Annie

 

[Small_Island]

Yeah I never got a reply, but I'll try to at least write a first chapter of my own story, similar to on that one, and see if there is any interest, maybe ask people to review it and give pointers before making it public.

I was just thinking of attempting to write a continuation, just for a writing exercise for myself, to see if I could do it.

Your second comment above is just what I thought at the start of your thread. If you haven't written stories before and have doubts about your ability (or imagination), then using these stories for a "writing exercise" is a good idea. Not with the intent of publishing them (without author's permission), but as a way to see if you can 'make them better' or at least more to your liking. I'd bet that once you get through a few, you will start to see new angles to take, new stories to tell with these as a launching pad, rather than rewrites. I think at that point you could go the route of, "Inspired by" being sure to give us a quick rundown of your efforts to make contact with the original author in your story intro.

 

[HaralLuhhan]

Your second comment above is just what I thought at the start of your thread. If you haven't written stories before and have doubts about your ability (or imagination), then using these stories for a "writing exercise" is a good idea. Not with the intent of publishing them (without author's permission), but as a way to see if you can 'make them better' or at least more to your liking. I'd bet that once you get through a few, you will start to see new angles to take, new stories to tell with these as a launching pad, rather than rewrites. I think at that point you could go the route of, "Inspired by" being sure to give us a quick rundown of your efforts to make contact with the original author in your story intro.

Thanks for the advice. The original author has no responded in a few weeks so far I don't expect a response.

I wasnt planning a rewrite on this anyway, just adding to it, since it stopped mid way with many unresolved plot points. I've found other stories where the person had rewritten the entire story and then added to it, with or sometimes without being able to contact the author for permission.

 

[HaralLuhhan]

So, I'm not quite ready yet, but is it possible to get some people to read my draft of a story and see if they like the direction of it and how it's written before I try publishing it?

 

[TheWritingGroup]

So, I'm not quite ready yet, but is it possible to get some people to read my draft of a story and see if they like the direction of it and how it's written before I try publishing it?

There are volunteer editors. Right here, there's a whole forum for editors: https://forum.literotica.com/forums/editors-forum.9/

In your Control Panel, on the left, there's an Editors tab you can click on to request editing.

-Billie

 

[HaralLuhhan]

There are volunteer editors. Right here, there's a whole forum for editors: https://forum.literotica.com/forums/editors-forum.9/

In your Control Panel, on the left, there's an Editors tab you can click on to request editing.

-Billie

I sent a request out, heard from the editor asking for details, but then nothing for a week. Maybe my story idea was really bad. lol

 

[StillStunned]

Editing is really hard work, and I think that only dawns on volunteer editors when they start thinking about how much time and effort is involved. That's probably the biggest deterrent.

 

[HaralLuhhan]

Editing is really hard work, and I think that only dawns on volunteer editors when they start thinking about how much time and effort is involved. That's probably the biggest deterrent.

Makes sense, but this person did respond right away and asked questions like how big the story was and so on, so they seemed to be willing to look at it. They might still be. People sometimes get busy and this sort of activity gets pushed aside. I doubt my little 3600 word story put them off

 

[Cagivagurl]

Thanks for the advice. The original author has no responded in a few weeks so far I don't expect a response.

I wasnt planning a rewrite on this anyway, just adding to it, since it stopped mid way with many unresolved plot points. I've found other stories where the person had rewritten the entire story and then added to it, with or sometimes without being able to contact the author for permission.

You have been able to contact the author.
The fact they haven't responded could be for many reasons.
No response cannot be considered permission....
No response could mean they can't be bothered dealing with your request.
No response, is in the description... NO....

Cagivagurl