Discussion: Human Rights

[Cathleen]

What sent me in search of this buried thread is Dr. Jack Kevorkian's release from prison.

I want to hear your pro/con thoughts on assisted suicide.

I'm pro, but not getting into details right now as I need to get some things done before the end of the day.

Cate--this is a wonderful thread that I'd forgotten to a point. Each and every post has made me do some heavy thinking. Thank you for that.

Den, I'm not ignoring this post. I'm ruminating my thoughts. It's quite complex for me based on personal experiences. Its certainly not a quick thought issue.

I'd forgotten about this thread too, lots of good stuff.

 

[Cathleen]

I have a very difficult time expressing my thoughts on assisted suicide. I've had two experiences where it came into play. The first was with my mother. She suffered horribly at the end of her life. She had battled cancer for almost twelve years and her active dying stage was ... I still don't know what to term it, horrific is about as close as I can say.

At one point, early on in this stage, she developed pneumonia and the hospise nurse talked with us about treatment. We could elect to not treat it and the nurse said she'd have a 'peaceful death', probably within five days or we could treat it. I had walked into this conversation between my father, sister and the nurse. I was totally caught off guard -- absolutely off guard. My mother was still conscious at this point and I said we needed to talk it over with her. I don't think my father and sister agreed, I forget that part but I know they wanted to talk with her doctor (who was/is a close friend) but once hospise was involved his role was more minimal so the nurse looked to the three of us for direction.

I knew how much my mother wanted to die, she was so ready. I jokingly told her that I didn't think she'd die sitting up in bed talking and beating the pants off us a Jeopardy! But I knew she was ready. I wasn't. The decision to treat the infection or not became moot because even without treating it she was still alive. My sister and father were in favor of with-holding treatment. I wasn't.

It was surreal. I came into an already in progress conversation and was asked if I wanted to with-hold something that would make my mother feel better or not which would help her to die. I can feel the emotion now -- wow. I said no. I said I was not qualified to make that decision I was only qualified to be her daughter. There was no guarantee of a 'peaceful death' or even that death would come more quickly.

I just don't have what it takes to assist in any way other than to care for my loved one. Making them comfortable, helping make final arrangements, being there -- those are things I can do and have done. In my experience dying is a very special time of life, so much can happen, feelings and thoughts are expressed, life is still happening.

In the case of my mother no decision was made regarding the medication, it seemingly had no influence on her dying. What I do know is that in the six weeks that she was still with us, able to talk and be with us, there was a tremendous amount of living, loving and learning going on. I treasure those days more than I can say.

I just don't have what it takes. However, I'm very grateful I'm not in charge of the decision.

 

[Eilan]

<snip>

I live in Ohio (in the part that's on the fringe of the Bible Belt, incidentally) and we're just now starting to see some aftereffects of the passage of Issue 1. Not only does Issue 1 define marriage as being between a man and a woman, it also prevents the state from recognizing ANY relationship that resembles marriage. This includes cohabiting male-female couples.

One thing that's happening here (in the Cleveland area, I believe) is that some people are getting charged with domestic violence and their attorneys are trying to get the charges dropped because they aren't married to the partner they're accused of abusing. It has something to do with the wording in Ohio's domestic-violence statutes and the broad application of Issue 1. It's bullshit.

<snip>

Sorry to quote myself, but here's another bump for an update from Ohio:

High court upholds Ohio's domestic-violence law

 

[emptynester]

Just went through another rescue of my mom from the man she married after my Dad's death. This is the 4th time my sister and I have had to step in.

His daughter knows he has a problem which is getting increasingly worse as he ages. She has repeatedly tried to get help for him but was basically given the run around. Mom is afraid I guess. She will not have him arrested. It is very frustrating.

We got mom out of town this time to my sisters. I called an attorney friend to get the restraining order reinstated. It was taking more time with her out of town but it would have been good anywhere within the state.

The old guy is still pretty sharp though. He can turn on the charm when he knows he has to. He played on her guilt, said he didn't mean to hurt her in anyway. He told her the same lies about loving her and he will do anything if she will come home. She did, again.

I am not sure how I feel anymore. Until you are faced with a certain decision, you really can only speculate as to how you would handle it.

My sister and I both agree though that she will have to get help from an outside source the next time. He will certainly make sure we don't see her now. She lives within those four walls and only goes out when he tells her she can.

His daughter did get him into a psychiatrist after being referred through a program at our local hospital. He has been seeing him in hopes that she would come back to him. That was one of her requests when she emailed him from my sisters. We are in hopes that this will do some good or that at least the next time mom will have the Dr. to help.

We can have all kinds of programs and systems in place to deal with domestic violence or whatever, but the truth of the matter is, sometimes before you can get through all the red tape - it is too late.

 

[done_got_old]

Just went through another rescue of my mom from the man she married after my Dad's death. This is the 4th time my sister and I have had to step in.

His daughter knows he has a problem which is getting increasingly worse as he ages. She has repeatedly tried to get help for him but was basically given the run around. Mom is afraid I guess. She will not have him arrested. It is very frustrating.

We got mom out of town this time to my sisters. I called an attorney friend to get the restraining order reinstated. It was taking more time with her out of town but it would have been good anywhere within the state.

The old guy is still pretty sharp though. He can turn on the charm when he knows he has to. He played on her guilt, said he didn't mean to hurt her in anyway. He told her the same lies about loving her and he will do anything if she will come home. She did, again.

I am not sure how I feel anymore. Until you are faced with a certain decision, you really can only speculate as to how you would handle it.

My sister and I both agree though that she will have to get help from an outside source the next time. He will certainly make sure we don't see her now. She lives within those four walls and only goes out when he tells her she can.

His daughter did get him into a psychiatrist after being referred through a program at our local hospital. He has been seeing him in hopes that she would come back to him. That was one of her requests when she emailed him from my sisters. We are in hopes that this will do some good or that at least the next time mom will have the Dr. to help.

We can have all kinds of programs and systems in place to deal with domestic violence or whatever, but the truth of the matter is, sometimes before you can get through all the red tape - it is too late.

......and that's the shame of it all. We know that restraining orders often don't work. I hope for your sake, the guy gets help. It's good that your mom has someone to turn to.

I saw the thread and started to post my own sob story; but mine pales in comparison.

 

[emptynester]

I saw the thread and started to post my own sob story; but mine pales in comparison.

But in sharing it just shows how many times this goes on and solidifies the question of "what about human rights?"

Do we have the right to make that decision for her, to keep her away from him and keep him from contacting her? If we do, aren't we doing the same thing he is; controlling her and telling her who she can and can't see.

She begged my sister to not let her change her mind. She said she never wanted to go back. Within a few weeks she had changed her tune and was ready to go back because she couldn't face the guilt if he did something to hurt himself.

What about the guilt we will feel if something happens to her. Does that make it right for us to make that decision for her. It is a very tough call.

It is in her best interest to not be with him. He has proven time and time again he can't control his anger. She can't remember most of the conversations we had after she first came to stay with us. When we reminded her of her statement about not letting her go back, she didn't remember saying it.

It seems with the elderly especially, there has to be someway of knowing what decisions are still within their rights to make and then those decisions that only family members should be allowed to decide.

I'm like Cathleen though, I could not make that decision. It is difficult putting myself in the role of parenting my mother. She is still my mom and I still look up to the woman she used to be. I can't seem to make that decision if it means going against what she has decided to do even if it is for her own good.