Discussion Thread: Writers' Issues: Tension, Surprise

[Pure]

just a note to mab,

when i said 'surprise', i have a very broad notion in mind:

Something surprising has to happen; to put it differently, the reader has to become curious about something--What will she [character] do; What will he say? etc.

The 'surprise at the end' is not mainly what i was thinking of, and yes, it's often contrived. "Jack was really a Jill."

I think of it as the opposite of predicatbility. That's the downfall of porn. Not only does Jack see pregnant Mrs. Horn sunbathing and strike of a conversation with her, and get laid of a few minds later, but she's has a fantastic orgasm, and Jack's girlfriend does not find out.

Surprise or lack of predictability can occur in any of several aspects.
Same for tension. The movie "Day of the Jackal" is a suspensful thriller. There is an attempt to assassinate De Gaulle. There is also the Malkovitch Eastwoood film about the former's attempt to assassinate the Pres. We know the attempts will fail, but there are many surprises along the way, i.e., 'close scrapes'; the person is "almost" detected or caught.

These are the obstacles to sex that i think Charley is thinking of. Yes they certain create tension, but not so much in porn, since things are so predicatable.


The predictability around sex, in porn, is not just the act. Jack manages to fuck Jill on the subway, between Stops #4 and #5, after catching her eye at Stop #1. But their thoughts, feelings and sensations are also known.

Take a 'first fuck' story. What would make it interesting, given that Sally will have her first fuck is that Sally gets hardly anything out of it. And comparing it to the thrill of her Lesbian roommates kiss, finds it lacking. And decides she's lesbian.

 

[Pure]

bump

because i find this issue so little talked about. we all say we're 'bored' with much porn, but we don't talk about what would 'unbore' it. the effort is to 'unbore' it with exotic or odd location-- the side of a mountion. physical peculiarites, etc.

how many of your stories or those you especially admire are somewhat unpredictable in their ending or last segment, but not in a contrived way? IOW, is does the usually read find the ending or last segment, at least somewhat other than expected?

perform this simple test. read everything until the last segment, which is say 10-20 percent. NOW can you, easily infer the events of that last segment, without reading it?

 

[ms.read]

because i find this issue so little talked about. we all say we're 'bored' with much porn, but we don't talk about what would 'unbore' it. the effort is to 'unbore' it with exotic or odd location-- the side of a mountion. physical peculiarites, etc.

how many of your stories or those you especially admire are somewhat unpredictable in their ending or last segment, but not in a contrived way? IOW, is does the usually read find the ending or last segment, at least somewhat other than expected?

perform this simple test. read everything until the last segment, which is say 10-20 percent. NOW can you, easily infer the events of that last segment, without reading it?

Hmm, In my story Lucky duck, I did a couple of things that totally frigged up the reading of the story, either, the main character got a nibble on her nipple from a previous character or, I ( the author) forgot to write in that scene.( suspense/ leave it to the imagination) also, I put the story in non human ( but the only refrence to that was that the male character thought of himself as a monster, and the girl called him an overgrown puppy. The story was supposed to be stand alone, but at the last minute, I added a paragraph to maybe lead to a part two... Please read it and tell me what you think. Most of the people on this thread, I consider to be very knowledgeable in this genre. (and writing in general)

Sincerely Ms.read oh and here is the link:http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=347978

 

[Softouch911]

because i find this issue so little talked about. we all say we're 'bored' with much porn, but we don't talk about what would 'unbore' it. the effort is to 'unbore' it with exotic or odd location-- the side of a mountion. physical peculiarites, etc.

how many of your stories or those you especially admire are somewhat unpredictable in their ending or last segment, but not in a contrived way? IOW, is does the usually read find the ending or last segment, at least somewhat other than expected?

perform this simple test. read everything until the last segment, which is say 10-20 percent. NOW can you, easily infer the events of that last segment, without reading it?

Wasn't this Hemingway's notion? That he'd write a story, then throw away the last five pages ... if it stood up well without them, he supposedly sent them off to the editors.

I suspect it's more complicated than that, but sure ... it's an excellent point.

Boredom comes, in fiction, I think typically for a couple of reasons:

derivative writing -- a writer decides to write a story as good as the one he remembers ... except it isn't his story really, so it comes off as a mechanical exercise, at best.

special effects -- this comes from modern (commercial) cinema where Hollywood -- in the absence of compelling characters or interesting stories -- substitutes firebombs and slow motion fights. In porn, the substitution for sexual tension and erotic affection is gymnastic IronMan sex.

How to fix it is the most interesting question of course.

It's a good idea to start with a story that interests you ... not an incident (sex) ... but a story that compels you to think and feel empathy for the people in it.

It's a good idea to put them in a situation where they aren't sure what to do or how to handle it and then give them their heads and see what they do.

It's a good idea to skip anything that sounds wonderful when you write it. Ditto, anything that sounds like a clever idea. Ditto for anything that doesn't fit in the world you've set the tale in.

It it's erotic, and you want the sex to be exciting, it's a good idea for it to be important to the characters. The sex shouldn't be JUST arousing, but should also change them or reveal them in some meaningful way they didn't expect beforehand.

After all, this is fiction, not reality.

Thanks for bringing this thread back to the top, Pure. I'd missed it.

ST

 

[Penelope Street]

It's a good idea to skip anything that sounds wonderful when you write it. Ditto, anything that sounds like a clever idea.

Really? Tell me more!

 

[Pure]

How to fix it is the most interesting question of course.

It's a good idea to start with a story that interests you ... not an incident (sex) ... but a story that compels you to think and feel empathy for the people in it.

It's a good idea to put them in a situation where they aren't sure what to do or how to handle it and then give them their heads and see what they do.

It's a good idea to skip anything that sounds wonderful when you write it. Ditto, anything that sounds like a clever idea. Ditto for anything that doesn't fit in the world you've set the tale in.


I think you're saying that an excess of cleverness is to be avoided. Some plots just have to many artificial twists.

I might mention the other side of the coin, with "surprise."

It's not hard at all to creat a surprise: there's always a bolt of lightning-- i think at the end of one of the Sade novels. the problem is that it must fit; people, who can't 'see it coming' have to say,"oh, well it was inevitable" (after the fact analysis).

 

[Softouch911]

Really? Tell me more!

okay, lol. As Pure said

I think you're saying that an excess of cleverness is to be avoided. Some plots just have to many artificial twists.

... or writing that is "precious," or "purple," or draws attention to the writer and away from the story.

"Plain" style and diction was a reaction against overblown Romantic writing a long time ago, and I think it still makes sense. But recently you see evidence of overwrought special effects in commercial fiction. My guess is it's coming in from commercial cinema and anime which are both lavishly slathered with self-conscious stuff. I guess I'm old -- recall Strunk & White fondly! Yikes.

ST

 

[Penelope Street]

okay, lol. As Pure said

Ok, so the basic idea is don't be too clever for your own good?

I'm not sure if we covered this before, but I often find early surprises more effective than later ones. Encountering an event or situation I didn't expect implies there may be more mystery- and fun- ahead. Even if the remainder of the tale follows a predictable pattern, at least I didn't *know* it was going to.

 

[Pure]

on early surprises.

very thought-provoking post, penny!

 

[Matadore]

Good stuff

This has been great.

I have enjoyed seeing little hints of coming surprises. This tactic works better in mystery stories maybe because the reader is more alert for "clues" than s/he would be in a typical erotic/romantic/porn story.

when I write, I have trouble getting just the right emphasis on the little hints. Too clear and the bit is obvious as planting a neon sign on the garden path, while if I get it too obscure, then the reader either misses it, ignores it or is confused by it. What I try to achieve for the reader is that "Ah-ha" moment when the surprise pops up and the reader connects the previous "clue" or "clues" to the event and as the pieces snap together for him/her, the importance of the hints becomes clear.

I guess if the tale was about vampires, finding that the "monster" sleeps not in a coffin but hanging from a rafter by her heels would not be as subtle a clue as simply having her refuse to venture forth in daylight...and certainly she would refuse to sunbathe nude, but not because she is modest (as she might lead one to believe)!

Does this method or technique have a literary name or term associated with it that one might tell me?