Do You Care If Your Elected Officials Cheat on Their Wives?

[eastern sun]

I agree with you here, but there are exceptional liars in the world. Someone ruthlessly attaining a goal in this manner has no problem choosing trusting people as spouses who will back them up unquestioningly. It's very hard to tell, because all the false evidence is pointing to a false conclusion, and the true evidence is buried deep.

It's easy to doubt a bad liar. Good liars inspire deep loyalty by design, and always have a scapegoat or a very beautifully crafted excuse at hand.

You're right about good liars. I know, from experience, though, that I wanted to believe their story, and was willing to overlook little (and not so little) indiscrepancies in order to "keep the faith." In that way, I was an active participant.


edited to add - I just made up a new word. Indiscretions met discrepancies and lo and behold - "indiscrepancies." I couldn't figure out why my spellcheck alarm kept showing red.

 

[satindesire]

I have a husband with cuckold fantasies.

That's not cheating, though, is it? It's with his consent. It's out there in the open. He knows and approves of you sleeping with other people.

That isn't going behind someone's back without their knowledge or permission and sleeping with someone else. That's you and your husband enjoying something fun and sexual for you two to share.

 

[MisterSir]

I have a husband with cuckold fantasies.

Point of order - if both partners consent to one of them fucking somebody else, I don't think that's infidelity.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I have a husband with cuckold fantasies.

It's hot.

 

[eastern sun]

That's not cheating, though, is it? It's with his consent. It's out there in the open. He knows and approves of you sleeping with other people.

That isn't going behind someone's back without their knowledge or permission and sleeping with someone else. That's you and your husband enjoying something fun and sexual for you two to share.

Hence my grinning icon. . . I'm just illustrating the point that not all acts of adultery should be judged as causing pain.

 

[Recidiva]

You're right about good liars. I know, from experience, though, that I wanted to believe their story, and was willing to overlook little (and not so little) indiscrepancies in order to "keep the faith." In that way, I was an active participant.

Yeah, but life's weird. It's hard to trust even people telling the absolute honest truth all the time because that's bizarre too time to time.

So I put the blame on the engineer of the scene.

Degrees of participation and victimhood vary. But I've seen serial killers with full happy families left holding an execution sentence saying "I had no idea..."

It's very hard to get a clear, honest, mind to stoop that low and suspect that much evil. That's why they pick clear, honest people. Who have no idea what's going on and even trying to think that way ties their brain in ugly knots. Even being suspicious makes a good person feel ugly. Bad people play on that.

 

[satindesire]

It's hot.

I agree.

 

[Recidiva]

Point of order - if both partners consent to one of them fucking somebody else, I don't think that's infidelity.

Absolutely.

 

[satindesire]

Hence my grinning icon. . . I'm just illustrating the point that not all acts of adultery should be judged as causing pain.

It's not that form of adultery I'm focused on AT ALL. It's non-consenting infidelity. I never once even implied that consenting married couples should be vilified for their bedroom activities. If both parties are in agreement and enjoy the activities, no one's harmed, lied to or victimized.

 

[Recidiva]

Hence my grinning icon. . . I'm just illustrating the point that not all acts of adultery should be judged as causing pain.

Yeah, but the key word is "fantasies."

Hell, I have rape fantasies. FANTASIES.

 

[eastern sun]

It's not that form of adultery I'm focused on AT ALL. It's non-consenting infidelity. I never once even implied that consenting married couples should be vilified for their bedroom activities. If both parties are in agreement and enjoy the activities, no one's harmed, lied to or victimized.

I know, that's how I got into this debate. I didn't think the non-consent clause applied in the case of political wives because infidelity is such a common practice, it seems naive to walk into those waters without expecting it.

(My mother and father walked in those waters. I've seen it first hand. And they couldn't handle it. It sent them both into infidelities, the marriage broke up, and my father abandoned his political ambitions.)

 

[eastern sun]

Yeah, but the key word is "fantasies."

Hell, I have rape fantasies. FANTASIES.

I'm not speaking about pure fantasies, here.

He loves it, the more cheating I do. And it isn't the stuff we agreed to beforehand that excites him the most.

 

[Recidiva]

I'm not speaking about pure fantasies, here.

He loves it, the more cheating I do. And it isn't the stuff we agreed to beforehand that excites him the most.

I get that, and that's cool. Whatever works.

It's still, in my opinion, consensual in its way. Nobody's getting hurt and there's fun to be had by all.

 

[Recidiva]

I know, that's how I got into this debate. I didn't think the non-consent clause applied in the case of political wives because infidelity is such a common practice, it seems naive to walk into those waters without expecting it.

(My mother and father walked in those waters. I've seen it first hand. And they couldn't handle it. It sent them both into infidelities, the marriage broke up, and my father abandoned his political ambitions.)

I can see why you have this opinion, but I don't hold it myself. If only because I've seen some genuinely honest, dedicated and devoted public servants who are passionate and create great change through fighting hard for what they believe in. They rely on their families and their connections to their duty to make them feel needed, wanted, loved and to know what they're doing is helping to change the world.

Political versions of Newman and Woodward.

The real deal does exist. If I vote or think in any way that gives them no place in the world...if I have no faith in those principles, I'd be wrong. I'd let cynicism rule and miss when the real deal walks by because I've given up on trying to really look at or find the good in people.

And it doesn't have to be faith that gets it done. Meet enough really, really good people and it's impossible to believe that all the dark in the world will always win out over the visionaries who create change.

 

[Homburg]

I don't think anyone "deserves" being cheated on, but I do think that certain cultures accept certain practices. I think, for instance, that Hilary Clinton accepted her husband's adultery in exchange for the position it gave her, despite the obvious humiliation. And I think large numbers of women have accepted adultery (without wanting it or "opening" their marriage) in exchange for social/political/financial power. Should we think of those women as victims?

There's something pinging my brain here, but I can't latch onto it. I feel like there is a subculture vibe going here. Something that says this is its' own little microculture, and in it cheating is de riguer.

--

*Non-sequitur Alert*

If I were going to be hit by a car, he's the guy I'd want at the wheel, no question.

This is one of the coolest sentences I've ever read, largely because I can see this fitting into conversation with you. And, more importantly, you meaning it from literal experience.

Cool.

--

They said that about Andrew Jackson, too. And his wife was accused of bigamy!

Interesting. I hadn't heard that.

 

[Keroin]

This is one of the coolest sentences I've ever read, largely because I can see this fitting into conversation with you. And, more importantly, you meaning it from literal experience.

Cool.

LOL.

Yeah. Out of context, some quotes can sound pretty funny. And I do say it out of literal experience!

Interesting, I had a brief rant in the Blurt thread yesterday about some political BS going on the island and it suddenly struck me that the only good politician we have here is also the only one who has cheated on his wife while in office. (Small island, everyone knows everything).

Anyway, this guy, T, is intelligent, has three successful businesses, is super-environmentally aware, (he's fighting to make one of our islands a bird sanctuary), is honest in all of his dealings, and works his ass off for his people and his island. No hyperbole, every other politician and civic leader on this island is a useless piece of dirt who steals at every turn and cares only about being a big shot. I'd trade every one of them for more people like T, cheater or not.

His wife is really cool. I like her too.

 

[MisterSir]

Also, to answer to the original question - not in the slightest. I'm surprised it's not happening more often over here, for that matter.

 

[ZRT]

One of the reasons this topic grates at me is because I've heard so much justification so often- 'Everybody does it', 'I couldn't help it', 'You would've done the same thing', etc.

People make mistakes, sure. Made plenty of them myself. But I've tried to own up to my mistakes in life and striven to live by principles. So much of what I've heard from this in the past people making excuses for pursuing their own desires above and beyond the considerations of their families. Especially when it comes to the children- a spouse can pack up and go, the kids are stuck with whatever fucked up mess the parents create for them.

 

[00Syd]

Syd tells me gently I'm not getting it but can't explain. As a Yankee in a half-southern family, gosh, that's never happened to ME before. I'm immune. Use your words.

All I tried to say was that from reading the argument thus far, it had seemed as though you were reading things that weren't there. Namely that people were saying that adultry is a good or admirable thing. I didn't feel the need to clarify what exactly you weren't getting since its not my argument, and I had already said all that I had intended to. I think that you should maybe ask the people making the argument for clarification, and not me, since its not my argument, and I was only pointing out an observation I made.

I could attempt to explain another person's argument, and what about it I don't think you are getting, but I would probably state it wrong or find out that I've been reading it wrong this whole time.

Also, I've been away for pretty much the entire weekend and who knows how the argument has evolved in my absence.

 

[00Syd]

Didn't you post, recently, in another thread, that you and your current husband started getting together while you were with someone else?

Added: So would you say that in my case, my affair, I was just lazy and lacking self control?

Question mark

 

[nh23]

He was a decorated war hero. He was a vegetarian, didn't smoke, only drank an occasional beer and never cheated on his wife. He helped establish many programs that helped families. He contributed to many technological advances. He banned smoking on buses and trains. He contributed to many medical advances.

Who are we talking about? Adolph Hitler.

 

[Keroin]

Question mark

Welcome back, Syd.

 

[MisterSir]

He was a decorated war hero. He was a vegetarian, didn't smoke, only drank an occasional beer and never cheated on his wife. He helped establish many programs that helped families. He contributed to many technological advances. He banned smoking on buses and trains. He contributed to many medical advances.

Who are we talking about? Adolph Hitler.

I can't speak for most of that, but the story of Hitler's vegetarianism is...disputed, to it lightly.

 

[intothewoods]

He was a decorated war hero. He was a vegetarian, didn't smoke, only drank an occasional beer and never cheated on his wife. He helped establish many programs that helped families. He contributed to many technological advances. He banned smoking on buses and trains. He contributed to many medical advances.

Who are we talking about? Adolph Hitler.

Ha, touche, nh.

 

[Keroin]

I can't speak for most of that, but the story of Hitler's vegetarianism is...disputed, to it lightly.

I started to read it and then...*bing*...this image popped into my mind of the fuhrer on the cover of "Alive" magazine, big healthy grin, wind blown hair, holding a bushel of freshly picked veggies. Headline?

"Heil broccoli!"

(In a fun and colourful font)