Does D/s HAVE to include BDSM?

[FungiUg]

I started thinking, what if I'm just a poser? What if what I'm feeling isn't D/s at all?

Hey... if it works for you and you are happy, then that's what counts! There's no set formula to this. The only people that define a relationship are the people IN the relationship. So if you are both happy with what's happening and what's not, then does it matter what label you attach?

 

[catalina_francisco]

PS, I have often found value in things you have said, and no doubt hope to again, but as I have already said, you are misreading what I say in a way which you interpret via what I suspect is your own bias. It reminded me of a previous posting in another forum which you made in reaction to one I made and which to me was judgemental to the extreme:

as originally posted by Phoenix Stone
Uh, Yeah! Listen to Catalina, buddy! Now that she's no longer 'in her vanilla days' she's a Slave. (sorry, that should be slave. Can't capitalize ) You should really listen to her opinion and experience about this -- All women are sure to respond Just Like Her! heh heh

(Sorry, Catalina, my intention here is not to denigrate you or your experience or your reaction or slavehood. Or to 'out' you. Just seems fair to give some warning as to where you are coming from.)

At the time I chose to brush it off and make light of it, but others who didn't know me but knew and respected my postings did not feel at the time your words were meant as harmless and non-judgemental as you claimed they were, or were called for.

For me it highlights 2 patterns I am noticing in your posting style, which may now forewarn me in the future as to what to expect and not get involved in. The first is you read and take from the post what you want and then interpret it in a way your own bias or experience limits you to, not actually what is said. As with this former post you felt you were outing me when in the post I made I had already mentioned that though I was speaking of pre BDSM vanilla days, I was no longer vanilla, so there was no outting but a loud and clear message you felt simply because of my slave status, whatever I had to say was not going to be credible or worth people's time in listening to.

The second pattern is your method of putting down people and then adding a note to say you don't mean it to seem that way and excusing it as your way...sort of a safety valve for you I guess, but not what I appreciate personally, more what others here call passive agressive.

You ask repeatedly for people to give you information and ideas as to what you can do, and many including myself have tried, but as they have also pointed out it is about you doing what you feel happy with, using your creative energy yourself as it taps into your own needs far more closely than any of us can. What you seem to be upset with is that people go beyond limiting themselves to just the mental aspects you ask for when posting about their experiences and speak about a broader picture which incorporates the mental, but is not exclusively just those things which appeal to you. I have no problem treating you equally as I do everyone here (part of my not feeling darn good as in above others, just me and happy, just to clarify that point you had difficulty with understanding), nor do I have a problem with people asking questions, but I am not going to stand by and be a target for you amusement or frustration, or stand by in silence as you label the board as lacking in experience and information simply because it is not fitting the image you have in your mind at this point in time.

Now in the interests of not hijacking the thread further I think it best we return to Luvinit's original question as it was valid and good and still has much discussion which people may like to contribute.

Catalina

 

[Esclava]

<----Is seriously pissed off that she missed this thread...

Man, I'm gone for a few days and ALL hell breaks loose on the boards! What? Do you guys/gals need a Master or something???

**Personal Opinion Ahead:
BDSM, really, encompasses whatever kink makes your motor hum. It doesn't have to be anything other than what you want it to be. As a newbie (sort of - I've been out of the lifestyle for 10 years), I have been told by a very wise man that I should divine what it is that I WANT from my D/s or M/s relationship and look for that. Only by knowing what I want will I be able to find true happiness in what I have.

So, PLEASE, get over yourselves - ALL OF YOURSELVES! This is not about who or what is better - it should be about helping each other find our way to our own happiness through the shared experiences of those treking down the path to BDSM ecstasy. So, forgive me if I seek opinions that don't matter to you. In so doing - and if more people seek opinions from different angles, perhaps we will find those answers you seek. If the questions you are asking don't bring the responses you desire, ASK DIFFERENT QUESTIONS! Or ask someone you trust to have an open-minded opinion to help you brainstorm into different questions that might bring you closer to the answers you seek. Either way, you gain in a win-win situation.

End of Personal Opinion.**

Esclava

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Re: <----Is seriously pissed off that she missed this thread...

Man, I'm gone for a few days and ALL hell breaks loose on the boards! What? Do you guys/gals need a Master or something???

Actually, we had a secret meeting to decide how to drive you nuts.

Looks like it worked.

 

[Esclava]

OK!

I'll admit that insecurity to the point of needing to make others feel small in order to improve your own self-image MAKES ME FREAKING NUTZ!

But, to each his/her own...that's just my opinion and everybody knows opinions are like assholes - everybody has one.

Or is that everybody IS one??? I forget...until it's time to BE one!

Esclava

 

[AngelicAssassin]

everybody knows opinions are like assholes - everybody has one.

This would be correct, but you forgot one minor detail.

 

[Esclava]

This would be correct, but you forgot one minor detail.

And pray - what would that be, AA, milord?

Esclava

 

[AngelicAssassin]

And pray - what would that be, AA, milord?

Esclava

Most of them stink.

 

[Esclava]

Most of them stink.

Yes, that is true. But even if one sniffs something that is disagreeable, one need not linger in the vicinity.

Have a great week, All. I am out of town (and probably off your nerves) until Friday.

Be well all,

Esclava

 

[catalina_francisco]

LOL, personally at the moment I find the air much sweeter smelling in the APF, but then I also admit I have personal interests there and one or two others who keep me interested in their own journey of exploration and fun. Hijacks over....

Catalina

 

[bluntforcemama]

Does one have to engage in bondage, physical discipline, sadism and/or masochism to have a complete D/s relationship? If so, why?

I have made a new anacronym for myself, it only involves MD/S. It sounds like I have a disease, doesn't it? It's because I refuse to not capitalize my name that I use the capital S.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Re: Re: Does D/s HAVE to include BDSM?

I have made a new anacronym for myself, it only involves MD/S. It sounds like I have a disease, doesn't it? It's because I refuse to not capitalize my name that I use the capital S.

I can identify with the not capitalising...is how we also write my name....my being a slave or not, he is not interested in my being represented by lower case lettering.

Catalina

 

[Phoenix Stone]

OT: Still

I CAN walk away... I CAN, I CAN...

Oh, shit. Luvinit, I'm sorry.

That spewing of vitriole, misconstruing EVERYTHING I've said... and then saying 'NOW we end hijack,' before the other person has a chance to respond -- no.

Taking the easier one, first. Esclava, it sounds like some of that was meant for me. If so, you either haven't read enough to understand me, or just misunderstand my position, period. I'd be glad to clear it up, in pm, and I think, with you, it could be done.

Catalina. No. Since you chose to bring up something here that is even off the topic of this particular off-topic, bringing something in from the past and another non-bdsm forum -- which I Now see is why you have been responding in the way you have,
OH this pisses me off. Big Time.

Do I give the whole story here, hunh? Of the obnoxious post on the How-To thread, that pissed virtually everyone there off -- which then attracted a completely crude violent nasty Troll -- whom You Supported with Your post?????

OH yes. I can post his crap if you want me to, and how you came into a thread and board and Supported the Troll's views, ever so sweetly. Then. ACccch. It gets complicated to give the whole story.
When you take ONE post OUT OF CONTEXT -- yes. You can make it look real nasty. Good for you. I applaud. Well done.
Outing you. No I don't OUT people, whatever the hell that means. Was that something you were keeping a Secret? YOu've certainly mentioned in plenty of posts elsewhere. Ya come in, say Yes, you'd Love being treated that way, a way all the non-bdsm women (and most of the bdsmers got Really Mad about -- mostly because of the Way he planned to do it) without giving Any context about yourself. Relevant context.
(Like if he was talking about having some woman come in and sit on his wife's face in her sleep, and you said you'd Love that, ignoring the non-consent aspect, and the aspect that we don't know if his wife is bi -- and neglecting to mention that you are. Would it be a Big Secret that you are? Hm mm?) Now.

I did apologize for inadvertent rudeness to a bystander there in the WAY I posted. The tone was meant for the Troll, not for you. I said that, once I got how it sounded by someone else's (extremely rude, btw) pointing it out. Btw, ONE person jumped me publicly for it. The only other response I got was private agreement from others who were strangers to me -- but not to you -- who AGREED with me and were glad I'd mentioned it. THIS time, too, I've gotten private agreement, and not one chastisement for standing up to you.

You acted SO sweeeeet at the time. So above it all and magnanimous. Mistakes happen. Yes, yes, you accepted my multiple apologies. And now we see how much you meant it.


My old post had NOTHING to do with your 'status' as slave. What it said is -- yeah right, ALL women are going to react like her. yeah sure.' YOu were posing. He was collecting supporters. You were a RINGER in that situation, and you know it. And you came into a thread, giving comfort to Trolls. Bully for you. Aren't you nice.

About THIS PRESENT thread, you said:
"What you seem to be upset with is that people go beyond limiting themselves to just the mental aspects you ask for when posting about their experiences and speak about a broader picture which incorporates the mental, but is not exclusively just those things which appeal to you."

That's just plain wrong. I"m not upset about anything except the way you continue to tell me who I am and what I'm saying, while getting it all Wrong, then insisting that I'M the one judging, the one interpreting by my own bias, etc.
YOU do not UNDERSTAND me. You can say it all day and that doesn't make it true. You misintrepret virtually everything I say.

I could go through it again, but it's beginning to get tedious. The above is just a plain completely incorrect understanding of what I've been saying (ad nauseaum). I'm getting tired just thinking of trying one more time to explain.

One last time: I LOVE when Anyone talks about Anything They LIKE! I"d just like to hear about some non-bd and non-sm forms of d/s play and action, too. And, as I've said before, will start a new thread, phrased one more time differently (note to Esclava) to collect those infrequent and scattered answers into one place.

I have not labeled the board. Certainly not as 'lacking in experience.' And if the info I want isn't here, that is just a fact, not labeling.

The only one I've seen doing labeling is you, except for One item. I have nominated you condescending, and I stand by that. You don't have the position, yet but you are surely nominated.

I have Meant every putdown I've ever said. So I don't say them easily or lightly. I don't think calling you a slave is a putdown. Do You?

YOu said: "I am not going to stand by and be a target for you amusement or frustration"

Me neither, Buddy. I fight back. Does it feel like an attack? Perhaps you are not used to people fighting back.

Now: "in the interests of not hijacking the thread further I think it best we return to Luvinit's original question as it was valid and good and still has much discussion which people may like to contribute." Eh, lovey?
But that wouldn't give you the chance to have the last word, now would it?

(something tells me you didn't Mean that last flower at the end of your post.)

 

[Phoenix Stone]

offtopic but in a totally different way. Does that help?

I have made a new anacronym for myself, it only involves MD/S. It sounds like I have a disease, doesn't it? It's because I refuse to not capitalize my name that I use the capital S.

just thought i'd better mentioned -- due to that last old, off-forum, out-of-context post of mine that was brought in by Someone --
that you'd see in context ( I think) that that was meant as gentle ribbing because of some other topic that came up elsewhere.

I knew catalina didn't care about the capitalizing bit, and neither do I/i. I'm switch, see? Like it? It's too much work. Unlike AA's Pyl/pyl designations. And Etoile's E/e's are nice, too. Spivak?

So glad that this board doesn't enforce that stuff. There was some humor in the cafe about enforcing different colored ink for different prefs.

(When I tease, I TRY to do it about things I have reason to believe the subject of my teasing isn't sensitive about.)

 

[bluntforcemama]

Re: offtopic but in a totally different way. Does that help?

So glad that this board doesn't enforce that stuff. There was some humor in the cafe about enforcing different colored ink for different prefs.

(When I tease, I TRY to do it about things I have reason to believe the subject of my teasing isn't sensitive about.)

Oh, Big Brother, is it 1984? Well, it must be the English teacher in me, for I cringe when I see an uncapitalized proper noun. Don't worry, I'm not all that sensitive. I can be downright abrasive.

Catalina: quite right! I like how you and your mate think. I must admit, though, that MD/S is not entirely a state of mind for me.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Re: OT: Still

Do I give the whole story here, hunh? Of the obnoxious post on the How-To thread, that pissed virtually everyone there off -- which then attracted a completely crude violent nasty Troll -- whom You Supported with Your post?????

So my post as posted below in full, and not in response to anyone but the original thread question (no quote, just an indepependent post of my own experiences with an open mind in my shockingly vanilla past), is trolling? So nice to know having a different experience and outlook to the majority qualifies as trolling these days. My thoughts on the thread were while he wanted to live out his fantasy of cumming on his SO's face while she was asleep (and many of us live out fantasies in this perverted wonderland), he also had the forethought to ask other women if they would themselves enjoy it before he went through with anything. Seems good thinking to me.

I have had this happen in my vanilla`days and did not see it as insulting or degrading or bad in any context. I think if you are in a healthy relationship with someone who is fairly open to new things and enjoying all things sexual, it would not be problem unless there were other circunstances such as`going to sleep without resolving some disagreement. Of course, I may have been a bit more agitated if I had been woken that way, and then left wanting while he rolled over and went to sleep....but I was taken care of so it was all fun.

Catalina


How do you get your post (which I posted before unedited) had nothing to do with me being a slave when you made it the focus of your post to point out I was a slave , and as such should not be listened to!!..then to apologise to me as only you can and explain you felt it fair to warn people 'where I was coming from'?!!..lol, even though the experience I spoke of was during my vanilla days when I was not submissive in any way in my relationships, or remotely involved in this lifestyle. Why I remembered the post now was because like some other D/s related things, you did not seem to get being a slave did not equate to being invalid, lacking in credibility, or not worth listening to, as you pointed out would be so unwise of anyone to do.

An added thought or observation..yes the rose is meant for everyone, even you. I do not find that if I need to defend myself, my word, or those I love that I necessarily have to accompany it with animosity and hate. I follow Buddhist philosophies to a large degree and though I will defend myself as is my right, I do not particularly feel I have to dislike those who choose to oppose me in any way....some even become friends. As I said, I have often liked what you say, but I don't agree with you or anyone 100% just as I am sure no-one agrees with me 100%...that is a fantasy, not reality, and growth inhibiting IMHO. I am human, not perfect, you are not perfect, even the Dalai Lama by his own admission is not perfect...all we can do is our best, and live our truth, not someone else's.

Lets just agree to disagree here and leave this thread to fulfil it's intention and purpose.

Catalina

Edited to delete most of what I see as not belonging here, but also defending my reputation and right to post without being told I am a troll for having an independent thought and experience. So be it.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Re: Re: offtopic but in a totally different way. Does that help?

Catalina: quite right! I like how you and your mate think. I must admit, though, that MD/S is not entirely a state of mind for me.

LOL, well we all have our place and way of thinking and being....it changes some and evolves, and is rarely pure to the stereotypes often presented. I think it is important to challenge it from time to time, remember what the essence is as opposed to taking it for granted and floating along in the groove that has become.

Catalina

 

[Phoenix Stone]

Re: Re: OT: Still

Edited to delete most of what I see as not belonging here, but also defending my reputation and right to post without being told I am a troll for having an independent thought and experience. So be it.

Urgghghgh!!! Mmmmmph, mmphgh mmph. razzen frazzen twisting my words, frrfrl, grrrrmmph, applying things to You that were about SOMEONE ELSE! aaaaaaahhhhhhh! Never said you were a Troll, you silly person, I said your words supported a Troll (NOT YOU, Tooch McGroin, if you MUST -- and this is the TROLL'S name, NOT a suggestion) AND YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT THE OTHER STUFF, TOO! grrrr out of Context! Buddah, my Ass!

RRRRRRRip! Just had to get that last word, didn't ya? (Tape back on.)

word


Ps. edited to add something ON-topic so as to not completely break my word -- luvinit, and others, I started a new thread for practical things to do, scenes etc. for DS w/o the pain and physical bondage.

Do you feel you got your question answered, luvinit? Basically, Xelebes was right. The answer is just Newp (as AA would say.) Was there more you wanted to say or ask about your question?

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Need for BD

(Tape back on.)

In PS's case, yes.

i think we'll try super-glue on the lips next.

... even stayed on topic ... dayum i'm good ...

 

[Phoenix Stone]

Re: Need for BD

In PS's case, yes.

i think we'll try super-glue on the lips next.

... even stayed on topic ... dayum i'm good ...

Yes, I talk a lot and that may bother some. So put me on ignore.

Being misinterpreted over and over like has been done is defaming. And I won't put up with it. Like you, offenses against my Honor are fightin' words.

As a switch -- or self protective sub -- I can switch from D to s on a dime. But I will not be BD'd non-consensually, or unfairly. (See? I can stay on topic, too..)

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Re: Re: Need for BD

Like you, offenses against my Honor are fightin' words.

Fine ... i get the Blue Rock'mSock'm.

What's that behind you?

Bip ... Red got rocked ...

 

[Phoenix Stone]

Re: Re: Re: Need for BD

Fine ... i get the Blue Rock'mSock'm.

What's that behind you?

Bip ... Red got rocked ...

You haven't offended my honor, Sir, so can't fight ya, even if you throw down yer glove, or throw a punch. Unless said punch hits its target. Didn't feel a thing.

(okay, miffed at what appears to be side-taking, but can't fault ya for taking sides -- even if the the other side is WRONG! )




Now, Uh, D/s. What have we Not discussed about whether bdsm has to include D/s? You can have it w/o you can have it with, you can have it in the car, you can have it near and far. Does D/s even have to include discipline? Not if you are willing to submit w/o, I suppose. Can you take it so far, so narrowly, that it only happens in your mind? (no humiliation, no mind control, no force, etc. just willing submission.) Probably. Harder to find a scene for you though, the more limits or narrower your focus, the more creative you have to be?

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Need for BD

Didn't feel a thing.

(okay, miffed at what appears to be side-taking, but can't fault ya for taking sides -- even if the the other side is WRONG! )

Darlin', if i were to take sides, you'd never see it coming.

i simply enjoy rocking your boat to try to keep you on even keel.

Now, Uh, D/s ... Does D/s even have to include discipline? Not if you are willing to submit w/o, I suppose.

i'd love to believe in the perfect soul mate, like-thinking by mental osmosis and all the rest of the mysticism, but i tend towards the pragmatic. i honestly believe a few might have found the near perfect match, but every one has a bad day. Until someone perfects physical domination by telekinesis, and domination of another's thoughts, no one will get it right 100% of the time on either side of the D/s coin.

i included your qualifier, albeit in grey. Does the submissive get a training handbook prior to the match? If not, and unless the submissive maxes a test on the handbook w/o studying; discipline plays an important role in a D/s relationship. Think of the concept as training. i won't assume you meant punishment.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Need for BD

i simply enjoy rocking your boat to try to keep you on even keel.

Uh yeah, a good shaking to get the marbles to fall back into place? No prob. Not too many out there who can do that, so no doubt it's good for me, upon occasion.

i'd love to believe in the perfect soul mate, like-thinking by mental osmosis and all the rest of the mysticism, but i tend towards the pragmatic. i honestly believe a few might have found the near perfect match, but every one has a bad day. Until someone perfects physical domination by telekinesis, and domination of another's thoughts, no one will get it right 100% of the time on either side of the D/s coin.

i included your qualifier, albeit in grey. Does the submissive get a training handbook prior to the match? If not, and unless the submissive maxes a test on the handbook w/o studying; discipline plays an important role in a D/s relationship. Think of the concept as training. i won't assume you meant punishment.

Brought it up just for the sake of argument D ), as I'd never considered the possibility before until someone (Annelize) said something that sorta called me on it.

Was thinking more of the subby who just Agrees to everything! (I can see why, given the source, your thinking might not have gone in that direction.)

'Course she still might not be capable, even if agreeable. Take the case, for instance, of DVS's fictional miss (or ms.), who just can't eat the whole thing (Yet), even given much incentive.

 

[Scarlett_t2]

well....I really don't think I can post what I wanted to now....have to come back and when my mind is clear of the clutter.
S