Does D/s HAVE to include BDSM?

[Phoenix Stone]

well....I really don't think I can post what I wanted to now....have to come back and when my mind is clear of the clutter.
S

Never stops the rest of us!

And just what makes You so special, missy? Hmmm?

 

[Scarlett_t2]

Never stops the rest of us!

And just what makes You so special, missy? Hmmm?

Well I make myself special....
S

 

[RavenSpirit2k4]

Re: Re: Re: Does D/s HAVE to include BDSM?

I can identify with the not capitalising...is how we also write my name....my being a slave or not, he is not interested in my being represented by lower case lettering.

Catalina

Yeah, that's another bit of BDSM netiquette I don't care for either. Sub or slave, Dave is still Dave - the difference is that he's my Dave.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

(how could we Get more off-topic?)

Well I make myself special....
S

And good for you, I say!

But if you're gonna be so picky -- wanting your mind clear of clutter and all.... Isn't that like having a clean desk? A sign that there's just not enough going On in there? Clutter free minds and clean desks are against Nature! And doesn't nature abhor a vacuum? So as soon as it's clutter free, mightn't something untoward fall, or be sucked, in?

And how to relate this back to D/s...? Brainwashing techniques? For a brain that's beyond clutter-free, all the way to squeaky clean! Ahh, and then You fill that space. With thoughts of service. Yes. We're back. Whewh.

Yup, it's like a ping-pong ball bouncing around in there.

 

[AnelizeDarkEyes]

Does one have to engage in bondage, physical discipline, sadism and/or masochism to have a complete D/s relationship? If so, why?

Well, now. Doesn't THIS seem to be the question of the week? *wry grin*

It's an interesting premise, having a D/s relationship without, what to me, are the "goodies". No pain? HORRORS!! JM would be beside himself if he couldn't indulge in his sadistic pleasures. Bondage? Welllll, bondage isn't a big part of our life either way. We could probably take or leave it.

But that's just us, and that's just me. You'll note I didn't mention discipline. Because frankly, while we can't run OUR relationship without it, in my opinion, I don't think you can run ANY D/s relationship without it. Where's the power exchange if there's no system in place for training, no system for correction?

I just don't see any submissive blithely and happily agreeing to her dominant's every command, doing everything perfectly, never disagreeing with him, always being the "yes" submissive, ever the helpmeet, super-submissve extraordinaire.

YIKES!!

Keep in mind, though, that discipline DOESN'T have to be painful. Point in fact, being a masochist, when I am disciplined, it is usually by a short, sharp lecture in the "Marine Corps" voice, and a period of being ignored. Generally, while he is in the same room with me. It lasts as long as he wishes it to last and it is horrible. Knowing that I disappointed him is awful.

There are as many different ways to discipline as there are dominants to think them up.

Talk to different doms, get ideas, take what you need and discard the rest. Be willing to experiment and constantly tweak what you have. Eventually you'll find things that work well within the strictly D/s model that you're developing for yourselves. Take care.

~anelize

 

[Scarlett_t2]

Re: (how could we Get more off-topic?)

And good for you, I say!

But if you're gonna be so picky -- wanting your mind clear of clutter and all.... Isn't that like having a clean desk? A sign that there's just not enough going On in there? Clutter free minds and clean desks are against Nature! And doesn't nature abhor a vacuum? So as soon as it's clutter free, mightn't something untoward fall, or be sucked, in?

And how to relate this back to D/s...? Brainwashing techniques? For a brain that's beyond clutter-free, all the way to squeaky clean! Ahh, and then You fill that space. With thoughts of service. Yes. We're back. Whewh.

Yup, it's like a ping-pong ball bouncing around in there.

Oh I am picky but maybe clutter was a bad choice of words...I have another but will refrain for I don't banter...As in filling the space it seems I do that well enough....My pets are happy and well taken care of...I am lucky to get to live my life everyday...as I choose...as they choose...My advice to you would not to presume anything about me..my mind is just fine....if you do not believe me...ask them.
Scarlett
PS My desk is always clean...and I like it that way.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Does D/s HAVE to include BDSM?

Yeah, that's another bit of BDSM netiquette I don't care for either. Sub or slave, Dave is still Dave - the difference is that he's my Dave.

LOL, have to love that possessive 'my'. Masterful one sees it in part as a mark of respect and recognition of my special abilities of which he is forever grateful it seems. As he says, I am his, if he wants to demote me as a form of punishment, or try to make me feel less than I am, that is his priviledge, no-one else's including mine. He also sees it as reflecting on the worth of his property...he is not keen on anyone suggesting, such as in presenting me in lower case, that he may have property that is in anyway less than the value he places on me.

Catalina

 

[Phoenix Stone]

Re: Re: (how could we Get more off-topic?)

r but will refrain for I don't banter...As in filling the space it seems I do that well enough....My pets are happy and well taken care of...I am lucky to get to live my life everyday...as I choose...as they choose...My advice to you would not to presume anything about me..my mind is just fine....if you do not believe me...ask them.
Scarlett
PS My desk is always clean...and I like it that way.

Hi. I do banter. Incessantly.
No offense meant -- just thought it was sorta cute the way you phrased what you said, but can see that my commenting bothered you. I don't have the least thought that your mind is anything but fine and didn't mean to ruffle, only to play.
Didn't presume a darn thing. don't know enough about you to presume. Guess I can add you to the list of people who don't appreciate my silly sense of humor. Please accept my apology.

Ps. I keep my desk as clutter-free as is possible, too, considering my little ones like to bring me gifts, of rocks, feathers and other delightful items. As you don't do banter, I'll move on to spread my sunshine elsewhere. Bye.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Bumps.....

 

[s'lara]

Good bump and back to topic.

As has been said, there are many ways to make D/s or even BDSM your own. Others have done it successfully and Anelize (good to see you lady) made a good point. Discipline is necessary. It doesn't have to be physical/painful discipline, but it can be used to reinforce the basis of the relationship ... One is the Dominant and the other is submissive. Discipline reminds us of that fact and can re-settle both parties in their respective roles.

The "lecture/ignore" disciplinary action is a good example of a non-physical, non-painful punishment. Other types of discipline in this vein are writing punishments (writing the offense down say 1,000 times), additional/unpleasant chores around the home (say cleaning the bathroom with a toothbrush, mild humiliation (taking away a privilege, say not being allowed to sleep in bed with the Dominant), etc. Some of these, i am sure have been mentioned elsewhere. In addition, these are subjective punishments. Some of us might love the extra service so the non-painful/physcial disciplines will have to be creative and tailored to the submissive's nature. If the sub enjoys service, withhold the privilege of allowing her to serve and so on.

To answer the question, D/s doesn't have to include BDSM. S/M doesn't have to include D/s, etc. Make it your own and live with it as it suits you.

lara

 

[Bachlum Chaam]

To even contemplate that D/s requires any form of Sadism or Masochism is nonsense the fact is they are totally seperate or can be in conjuction, all is fluid depending on the participants

Hi anelize

 

[Esclava]

Re: OT: Still

<snip>Taking the easier one, first. Esclava, it sounds like some of that was meant for me. If so, you either haven't read enough to understand me, or just misunderstand my position, period. I'd be glad to clear it up, in pm, and I think, with you, it could be done.

<snip>

If you are reading this reply, you may have to read the original post on page2.

JUST in the way of clarification, what I said is intended for ANYONE who has issued an opinion on this thread that doesn't leave room for consideration from other viewpoints. There are several on this thread that, in my opinion, fall into this category. But as I've said before, opinions are like assholes...etc. IMOHO, everyone has one and is entitled to it; but to issue one and then slam the door so others are not allowed, that is the epitome of arrogance, poor manners and bad taste.

Anything can be resolved in PM - as I am, and always have been, a reasonable person. But I believe if you are going to take something to PM, you owe it to the readers of the thread to amicably agree to take it to PM, so everyone understands that both persons want a quiet resolution to the unpleasantness. I'll meet you in PM on this issue, but I don't believe I've misunderstood anyone or anything.

I'm just asking for a little more open-minded repartee - or if the "repartee" will be vituperative bile, then it can be a little more open-minded as well. Is it time for a class on how to slash the moorings of another's clothing with razor-sharp wit - without drawing blood? Let me know - I have the perfect instructor in mind...

Esclava

 

[Esclava]

Back on topic...

My current M/s relationship is not withOUT pain aspects. As I have been told, a little pain is necessary - even desireable. However, masochistic pain is not what is desired by either my Master or Mistress (who is Master's slave). I have felt the heat of candle wax on sensitive parts, clothespins on those same sensitive parts and the wooden spoon of discipline in places I never thought would be spanked.

All of them were painful, but because they were ordered by Master or Mistress as acts that were pleasing to them, they produced so intense a pleasure - I could not contain the ecstasy. Each time I am so ordered, not only do I wail - loudly - in my desire to attain the release needed to satisfy my loving Master/Mistress, but many times I weep tears of overwhelming emotion as I feel a love so encompassing it eviscerates everything I am down to my very base submissiveness.

For me, that is Dominance w/o masochistic pain. Now, even the amount of pain I've described may be too extreme for some. I can only invite you into my world to peek at my experience and hope that it sheds some light on what it is you seek.

Esclava

Edited to add the captialized letters - because I'm tired...E

 

[Phoenix Stone]

Re: Re: OT: Still

I see you've put part of my post in yours so, if the rest is to me:

If you are reading this reply, you may have to read the original post on page2.

JUST in the way of clarification, what I said is intended for ANYONE who has issued an opinion on this thread that doesn't leave room for consideration from other viewpoints.

Yes, so I assumed.

There are several on this thread that, in my opinion, fall into this category.

I don't see it but:

But as I've said before, opinions are like assholes...etc. IMOHO, everyone has one and is entitled to it;

but to issue one and then slam the door so others are not allowed, that is the epitome of arrogance, poor manners and bad taste.

Huh? I'd agree with the second half of that but the only place I saw the first half occur was when someone kept saying rude stuff and then adding, to paraphrase, 'and Now let's get back on topic.' Nice attempt at slam and run. And it wasn't you.

Anything can be resolved in PM - as I am, and always have been, a reasonable person. But I believe if you are going to take something to PM, you owe it to the readers of the thread to amicably agree to take it to PM, so everyone understands that both persons want a quiet resolution to the unpleasantness.

I'll meet you in PM on this issue, but I don't believe I've misunderstood anyone or anything.

That's nice. You're sure the confusing the heck out of ME.

I'm just asking for a little more open-minded repartee - or if the "repartee" will be vituperative bile, then it can be a little more open-minded as well.

(Noticing a pattern here?)

Prefer All bile I"m served be open-minded, even the non-vituperative.

Is it time for a class on how to slash the moorings of another's clothing with razor-sharp wit - without drawing blood?

Think that would help?

Someone already made helpful suggestions in pm. Said I should be briefer and nastier.

Let me know - I have the perfect instructor in mind...

Esclava

Got one, thanks. See previous. Really, appreciate all these offers but I'm really not in the mood.

Ps. I give it when I get it.

Too by this post to even Know if I got it. Which is just as well.

(oopsy, edited to add quote mark -- wouldn't want to confuse.)

 

[Esclava]

PS,

OK, in plain English - I can't tell you if anything in my posts applied to you. Only you can decide if something you said fits into any part of my responses - the same as for anyone else that reads it.

My initial response is not directed at you or anyone else in particular - as I said I saw more than one post that inspired it. But if you see something in my reply that could make it apply to you; then perhaps there is a bit of truth in it for you to see. I'm not trying to become part of the flame war, but I have given my opinion, had it called out for...something (not sure what) and this is all I have to say about it.

So, I don't get the last word (why ever would I want that), please rebut to your heart's content - even though there is nothing for rebuttal.

Be well,

Esclava

 

[Esclava]

Re: Re: Re: OT: Still

I see you've put part of my post in yours so, if the rest is to me:

<SEE COMPLETE QUOTE ABOVE>

Too by this post to even Know if I got it. Which is just as well.

(oopsy, edited to add quote mark -- wouldn't want to confuse.)

No, PS - you missed my point completely and succeeded in alienating an ally in the process.

I thought this a good foundation question on which to build various ideas and examples to be brainstormed - that could be changed or re-made to fit personal expectations of those seeking answers to the many questions that - even long time BDSMers still have about this "lifestyle".

I can see that was naive and I should be punished for thinking that open-minded exchanges could occur where subjects that inspire passionate responses exist.

I, too, respected things you had to say - until I had opportunity to experience first hand what happens when you disagree with someone. You "called me out" when you dissected something I said that I said FROM THE VERY BEGINNING was my own personal opinion. It was taken out of the context I wrote it in and broken up into the context YOU wanted to deal with it in - thus changing some of the meaning. You can't do that...whether you agree or disagree with what someone says.

If I was making a statement of fact and you had information that corrected the statement, it can be dissected and corrected. But to tear down another's opinion because you disagree with what they say is THEIR OPINION, is wrong. You took my opinion apart, almost sentence by sentence, and essentially, accepted/agreed with what you wanted, disregarded what you "didn't see" and defended your confusion with sarcasm. By doing that, you turned it from an opinion (personal belief) into a persuasive argument. Anytime you try to force someone's opinion into being a persuasive argument - it smacks of manipulation.

And I'm NOT sorry about it, but I won't be manipulated in that fashion. You asked for opinions, I gave mine. I'm finished with this thread and probably many others.

Edited to add the portion in bold as well as this: Since this WAS going to be a read, write and delete piece that was picked up because I was booted from AO-Hell (I had just cut and pasted it into a Word doc), I might as well add the rest since circumstances beyond my control have deemed it necessary to put the first part out here.

PS, the same issues you see here are the same ones I'm having in responding to the PM...you can't dissect someone's opinion to fit how you WANT to understand it. When you break up the continuity of something that someone else wrote, you change the meaning entirely - you absolutely cannot expect it to remain the same after you have taken it apart to suit you. But that appears to be the only way you know how to deal with responding to something you don't understand, agree with or feel attacked by. I won't even try to answer the PM at this point. If I were you, I would check my self-defensive sarcasm at the door before you reply in threads that are important to you.

Esclava

 

[Phoenix Stone]

Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: Still

No, PS - you missed my point completely and succeeded in alienating an ally in the process.

Yes, apparently I did miss your point completely. Have asked for clarification, both here and in pm. As I've heard said, isn't the onus on the person being misunderstood to try to clarify? I'm not refusing to get your point, I'm Missing your point -- and have said so, repeatedly. I'm sorry you feel alienated. Apparently there's nothing i can do about that.

I thought this a good foundation question on which to build various ideas and examples to be brainstormed - that could be changed or re-made to fit personal expectations of those seeking answers to the many questions that - even long time BDSMers still have about this "lifestyle".

Because there's been so much argument here that I was a part of, I told Luvinit that I'd start a new thread, on D/s w/o BDSM. 'Slara and others have added quite a few ideas and examples there.

I can see that was naive and I should be punished for thinking that open-minded exchanges could occur where subjects that inspire passionate responses exist.

'Scuse me? Where not open-minded? Where were you punished? Heck, I even let you have the last word after that last post -- and just wrote you in pm to try to work out whatever this knot is. Then you didn't respond, and just came back here to express anger, so I'm responding back here. I don't feel at all offended by you, and still don't understand why, how and where you feel offended by me.

I, too, respected things you had to say

Too? Who is the other party you're referring to? If me, then great -- because I've certainly respected what you've said.

If someone else is the 'too,' I'd be really curious to know who your talking about.

- until I had opportunity to experience first hand what happens when you disagree with someone. You "called me out" when you dissected something I said that I said FROM THE VERY BEGINNING

WHERE did I 'call you out' in dissection? Are you talking about when I privately explained my opinion and asked about yours, both in general and as to specifics in pm? If that's what you're talking about, how is that 'calling you out'?

If you were offended by me asking you about something you said from the beginning, perhaps I didn't Understand, whatever it was, from the very beginning.

And since I'm still not sure what this 'something you said' is, that's the best I can do.

 

[Esclava]

Back on Topic...

Since he is non-sadistic, I will ask my Master if, in his opinion, D/s has to contain an element of pain and/or bondage. It will be interesting to see his response and he may have activities or techniques he has used/engaged in that work well for him.

Esclava

Sorry all, I said I was through with this thread. I shall not be back but I cannot delete the post. Be well. E

 

[catalina_francisco]

Re: Back on Topic...

Since he is non-sadistic, I will ask my Master if, in his opinion, D/s has to contain an element of pain and/or bondage. It will be interesting to see his response and he may have activities or techniques he has used/engaged in that work well for him.

Esclava

Sorry all, I said I was through with this thread. I shall not be back but I cannot delete the post. Be well. E

For me I hope you will bring your Master's views back to this thread as I am sure it will be relevent and appreciated, and will add another perspective. D/s has so many dimensions depending on the participants and the situations. Our own version is most often without pain, and even more often without bondage...they are 2 areas I am indulged in when I have pleased, or time and the mood suit us. Sometimes unfortunately, life gets in the way and they may not be enjoyed for a couple of weeks, yuk, sometimes due to inescapable circumstances it has been more.

The majority of our day to day life exists as D/s at the grass roots, the mental domination and submission, the tasks I do as part of my submission, the expectations he has, and commands he delivers as my Dominant. Pain and bondage are never used primarily as a means to encourage or force me to submit, there is no necessity. The ebb and flow of our D/s is part of what keeps the fascination and passion flowing in our relationship.

Catalina