Dom/me wannabe's and their lack of insight

[Richard49]

Richard,


No matter how skilled one might be with the tools of the trade and even if one were to serve first for a year as a submissive one might still be socially inept. There are all kinds of "bad" Doms. Some of them are total nutbags who ought to be locked up and some of them are just people who should only be paired up with certain submissives.

-B

1) when it comes to D/s it has NOTHING To do with tools
it has to do with "being"

2) under the system I came up through
if you were inept after the year of mentorship

you would NOT be called a dom

 

[Richard49]

Limits and preferences aside, personalities are important. A Dom might be skilled and responsible and experienced and "good" but if the submissive of his dreams thinks he's an ass, then he's an ass.

-B

This is mostly true

 

[Richard49]

Richard,

Is there some reason you feel it necessary to be condescending? I'm happy to entertain an opposing point of view since that's the point of debate but if you want to play weary martyr on the mountain then we won't won't get very far.

-B

I do not feel I was condescending... I called it as I saw it
this is NOT about opposing views
this is about Safe sane and concensual
(there was another condition that was added but I do not remember it)

If we do not have a shared language than how can it be any of the above
because we are moving in a fog

 

[bridgeburner]

1) when it comes to D/s it has NOTHING To do with tools
it has to do with "being"

But we aren't talking about D/s alone. We're talking about Domiants who might also happen to pick up a flogger and it certainly does matter whether or not they're proficient.

2) under the system I came up through
if you were inept after the year of mentorship

you would NOT be called a dom

And where does that get us in today's world? I'm sorry for your loss, but time only moves forward.

 

[bridgeburner]

I do not feel I was condescending... I called it as I saw it
this is NOT about opposing views
this is about Safe sane and concensual
(there was another condition that was added but I do not remember it)

If we do not have a shared language than how can it be any of the above
because we are moving in a fog

Yes, Richard, it IS about opposing views since you have one and I have one and other people have theirs. It's not just yours and then the terribly misguided others, you know. It also hasn't been much about SSC. We've been talking about personality traits more than anything, but to tell you the truth I don't believe that every person who makes it through a year of training is necessarily a great Dom.

People are people and some of them are shitty. Cops and doctors and teachers and priests and all sorts of people pass all kinds of tests of all orders of magnitude and then perform with varying degrees of skill. Some of them exceed expectations and others of them betray the trust placed in them horribly and it's not a failure of the training process it's a failure of the individual. Dominants are no exception to that rule unless they aren't human beings.

-B

 

[Richard49]

But we aren't talking about D/s alone. We're talking about Domiants who might also happen to pick up a flogger and it certainly does matter whether or not they're proficient.





And where does that get us in today's world? I'm sorry for your loss, but time only moves forward.

It is about getting back to sanity
you are so far off base from what I am saying
and what is happening in the D/s community

I am no longer going to respond to you

INHO you are a cyber bully

you talk about my loss
and you know nothing about it
nor am i speaking to it
I am speaking to the need for a shared language
and the need for third party traning and endorsement

you may go your own way
as so many others have
and comtrubite directly or indirectly to the bring pain to others

hey there let me ask you directly
(and no I will not reply to you or your answer)
"Do you think you would make it through a year of traing to earn the title DOM"?

PS: The year you were born I was coming home from VN

 

[FurryFury]

Not to interrupt a good argument but this might have the makings for a good poll thread.

How many Doms/Dommes on this board have actually had training, could make for an interesting poll.

Fury

 

[bridgeburner]

Oh get off it, Richard, I haven't bullied you, I just don't agree with you and I don't think I need to bow down and lick your boot because you're older than me or you went to Dom school or you have an over-developed sense of the dramatic.

Why should I bother to answer your questions if you're not going to respond?

For the record you look damn silly sitting there with your fingers in your ears saying "La-La-La I'm not listening to you!!"

 

[bridgeburner]

Not to interrupt a good argument but this might have the makings for a good poll thread.

How many Doms/Dommes on this board have actually had training, could make for an interesting poll.

Fury

Furry,

I think that's a great idea!

 

[graceanne]

Furry,

I think that's a great idea!

I think that you're gonna start one heck of a fight with a poll like that. *shrugs* I dont' care either which way, but I did want to point that out real quick.

 

[FurryFury]

I don't generally start fights. I do finish them though. It was just an idea. Not one I was going to run with. Someone else can however.

Fury

 

[catalina_francisco]

While I understand what a lot of people are saying about someone being a "good Dom" versus a "bad Dom" or a "wannabe" I'm not sure that those terms are truly useful for me because there doesn't seem to be the same stringency for submissives.

Nobody ever (well hardly ever) says to a submissive "You're just a wannabe submissive." We talk about undisciplined and inexperienced and bratty and sammy and unhealthy and crazy and whatever else kinds but we never deny them their self-identification as submissives.

So what this says to me is that we have higher standards of behavior for Dominants because of what we feel they should represent.

-B

Not sure I share your perspective on this as I have seen many references to wannabe subs, as well as bad subs. It has happened here, and it happens elsewhere...and with the subs we are talking to at the moment, I have no problem asking them if they are truely submissives if they continually top from the bottom and push for what they feel is important for their gratification and which does not amount to submission but more so domination, or perhaps more truthfully, domineering.

For myself, I expect just as high standards of behaviour, though different because of the dynamics of the role. LOL, I am told it works well for them though as it is not something most of them have been finding...instead they have had Dominants of either gender falling over themselves to do what the submissive wants, so it is refreshing ITO to be pulled up quick and forced to face their own submission head on, not encouraged through compliance to continue pushing and playing games.

Catalina

 

[Richard49]

Not to interrupt a good argument but this might have the makings for a good poll thread.

How many Doms/Dommes on this board have actually had training, could make for an interesting poll.

Fury

my guess is very damn few
and even fewer of todays groups of
"I am a dom"
would make it

There is a far difference between those who have gone through it
and those who one day say
"I'm a dom"

As to the submissives that make the claim
who have no RT experence
like the doms that fal into that group

ok
ff put up your poll
and remember that at lest a 1/3 will not be honest

 

[SweetDommes]

I have a problem with saying that anyone who hasn't gone through a mentorship can't claim to be a Dominant (and yes, that is what I am getting from certain posts).

We didn't have anyone who was willing to mentor us. We had very little advice outside of these boards (and for the record, we still miss you EB), and even then, there were quite a few people who were condecending and obnoxious ... not to mention one troll, who is no longer with us on these boards, who decided that he was going to dominate Holly no matter if she wanted it or not.

However, we have personal standards that we wanted and needed to live up to. We have personal integrity to stand by what we said and did - and to make sure that no harm was done if it could be avoided, and what harm was done was minimized when it couldn't be avoided. We took the responsibility to learn what we could, and talk to people, and we still spend time on learning what interests us. We have the interpersonal skills to not do something as obnoxious as the 'dom' in the OP, because we understand that it is not appropriate behavior for anyone to leer at anyone else. I'm stressing the "we" in each sentence because we did this all on our own - this is who and what we are ... and who we were brought up to be. It has nothing to do with any training or lack thereof in WIIWD.

Problems like the OP had with the 'dom' that prompted this thread are not from a lack of training in the D/s or BDSM lifestyle - it's from a lack of training in interpersonal skills from childhood on.

 

[bridgeburner]

Not sure I share your perspective on this as I have seen many references to wannabe subs, as well as bad subs. It has happened here, and it happens elsewhere...and with the subs we are talking to at the moment, I have no problem asking them if they are truely submissives if they continually top from the bottom and push for what they feel is important for their gratification and which does not amount to submission but more so domination, or perhaps more truthfully, domineering.

For myself, I expect just as high standards of behaviour, though different because of the dynamics of the role. LOL, I am told it works well for them though as it is not something most of them have been finding...instead they have had Dominants of either gender falling over themselves to do what the submissive wants, so it is refreshing ITO to be pulled up quick and forced to face their own submission head on, not encouraged through compliance to continue pushing and playing games.

Catalina

Ew, the domineering "princess" sub. Ick! I think some of those situations might be explained by incompatible partners --- an actual submissive with a vanilla or another submissive partner and they just can't make the roles work. But yes, of course it happens, I hadn't even been thinking about domineering situations. That's the bias of inexperience and where I spend the bulk of my time.

I've only come across one of these possible weirdo "subs" once and it's hard to say exactly what she was since I think mostly she was just an attention whore. This isn't to say they're rare only that I don't get out much and when I do it's a public space so I'm less likely, I think, to encounter bad behavior since who's going to show off their ill-behaving submissive?

Perhaps it's just the nature of the roles that because Dominants have the bulk of the responsibility for physical safety we're more concerned over the legitimacy of the people in that role. Which makes sense, but it still niggles at me somewhat although I'll have to come back to it. The full thought is eluding me at the moment.

Your post did bring another thought to mind for me which is sort of the flip side to this coin - the submissive impulse. You point out that there are submissives who've been getting away with calling the shots and they find it refreshing to finally be taken in hand. They really are submissives, is what I assume you're saying. Now, what about those people who just can't seem to get the right kind of domination? All their fantasies are of being dominated but their reality is such that they can't get what they need without coaching someone else on how to do it. Now, on the one hand that sounds like topping from the bottom --- I mean it IS, but at the same time, if it's exasperating to have to give the orders rather than arousing, then that person could truly be a submissive but just needing a very specific kind of Domiant, right?


-B

 

[FurryFury]

I have a problem with saying that anyone who hasn't gone through a mentorship can't claim to be a Dominant (and yes, that is what I am getting from certain posts).

We didn't have anyone who was willing to mentor us. We had very little advice outside of these boards (and for the record, we still miss you EB), and even then, there were quite a few people who were condecending and obnoxious ... not to mention one troll, who is no longer with us on these boards, who decided that he was going to dominate Holly no matter if she wanted it or not.

However, we have personal standards that we wanted and needed to live up to. We have personal integrity to stand by what we said and did - and to make sure that no harm was done if it could be avoided, and what harm was done was minimized when it couldn't be avoided. We took the responsibility to learn what we could, and talk to people, and we still spend time on learning what interests us. We have the interpersonal skills to not do something as obnoxious as the 'dom' in the OP, because we understand that it is not appropriate behavior for anyone to leer at anyone else. I'm stressing the "we" in each sentence because we did this all on our own - this is who and what we are ... and who we were brought up to be. It has nothing to do with any training or lack thereof in WIIWD.

Problems like the OP had with the 'dom' that prompted this thread are not from a lack of training in the D/s or BDSM lifestyle - it's from a lack of training in interpersonal skills from childhood on.

Sweet Dommes,

You put in a two of things in here that I must confess I don't know the meaning of, OP, WIIWD would you please tell me what that means?

I do believe that in the best of all possible worlds one would be able to obtain training. I think it would be thrilling and challenging. I think it would teach you a great deal about yourself, BDSM and others.

I also believe you and Holly are consciousness and wonderful Dommes from what I can tell. I believe that what we are is what we feel ourselves to be and that does not require formal training.

However to get proficient I think, yes you have to do RT things. You can develop your training whether it is at home with our partners or formal. That's what I believe.

If it weren't for the RT things I've done, I might still be wondering if I were a sub, Domme or switch. It took doing to figure this out. It wasn't just what I did or my feelings while I did it but the motivation behind what I was doing that helped me work my way through the Byzantine maze of trying to figure things out thus far.

However if I could obtain formal training I would dearly love to. I believe I would learn a great deal more that way than my blind leading the blind efforts have thus far allowed for.

It's been a wonderful journey for me so far. I'm just saying what I have found or believe to be true. I actually have no issues with anyone on the board. I am not attempting to tell people what is right or wrong here, just discussing from my limit view point.

Fury

 

[SweetDommes]

Hehe, sorry about that.

OP = original post/original poster
WIIWD = what it is we do (stolen shamelessly from another site ... more comprehensive than D/s or BDSM either one).

 

[FurryFury]

Hehe, sorry about that.

OP = original post/original poster
WIIWD = what it is we do (stolen shamelessly from another site ... more comprehensive than D/s or BDSM either one).

Thanks so much!

*smiles*

I have to ask when I don't know stuff.

*blows kiss*

Fury

 

[DVS]

I've really gotten to hate labels and also the absence of labels. One tends to make the other worse, I think. I've never been "trained" and I thknk I do a fine job with what I enjoy doing. And, as someone has said, you can't say just because you have the paper to prove it that you are a Dom.

There are some who will might pass all of the tests but never have the ability to put what they've learned into real life practice. I've seen it many times, before. Such as the freshly graduated computer science major who knows nothing about fixing a computer...or even the First Lutenant that just graduated from West Point...he's lost in his first reall battle.

Book learnin' gives you some things and it doesn't give you other things. And, another variable is your teacher...if you don't have a good teacher, you won't learn a whole lot. You might be the best Dom in the world, but if you can't tach someone else to be a good Dom, your specialty ends with you.

On the job training is how I learned. You read a lot and then put it into practice with your own special twist. Not verybody can do it that way, I"m sure. And, I'm sure an axtual Dom class would probably work for some, too. But, when it all comes down ti it, you either have it or you don't, and all the labels there are won't change any of it. If I were a sub,I'd be concerned that the certified Dom I had just met paid someone to take his Dom class SATs.

 

[graceanne]

As far as I'm concerned saying someone isn't a dom cause they haven't had training is just a way for some people to feel superior. Who died and made you the label police. If someone wants to call themselves a dom/me their's shit you can do about it.

And beyond that - so if dom's have to have a years experience as subs to be 'real' (I guess that's better than being imaginary), then do subs gotta spend a year as a dom/me?

 

[Richard49]

the only reason that people would fight having a shared language is to be able to manplate things for their dishonest purposes or they have not the mental capcity to share in a shred language

and it is not about being the police
well I guess it is

it is about keep the community a healthy place
and sometimes communities need police

I know from all the years I have been on Lit
and watch most the truly RT experenced people leave
that the community on lit
has become primarly a place for those with no RT experence

 

[bridgeburner]

And beyond that - so if dom's have to have a years experience as subs to be 'real' (I guess that's better than being imaginary), then do subs gotta spend a year as a dom/me?

I was kind of wondering that myself, Grace. ;->

 

[Bandit58]

As far as I'm concerned saying someone isn't a dom cause they haven't had training is just a way for some people to feel superior. Who died and made you the label police. If someone wants to call themselves a dom/me their's shit you can do about it.

And beyond that - so if dom's have to have a years experience as subs to be 'real' (I guess that's better than being imaginary), then do subs gotta spend a year as a dom/me?

*applauds gracie*
Master Gil has been in the lifestyle for 9 years now. He's had several subs over that time, sometimes meeting 3 different ones over the course of a week, although I am the first one He has had a 24/7 live in relationship with. As DVS said, He learned "on the job", but is a naturally Dominant man anyway in His daily life.

I mentioned the serving as a sub for a year thing to Him and the response was less than enthusiastic He does not have a submissive bone in His body! As for me being a Domme? Forgeddit It's just not in my nature.

 

[graceanne]

*applauds gracie*
Master Gil has been in the lifestyle for 9 years now. He's had several subs over that time, sometimes meeting 3 different ones over the course of a week, although I am the first one He has had a 24/7 live in relationship with. As DVS said, He learned "on the job", but is a naturally Dominant man anyway in His daily life.

I mentioned the serving as a sub for a year thing to Him and the response was less than enthusiastic He does not have a submissive bone in His body! As for me being a Domme? Forgeddit It's just not in my nature.

Well, yeah. Talk about bottom toppers. hehe

 

[Bandit58]

Well, yeah. Talk about bottom toppers. hehe

Master Gil's comment was "If it works for you, fine. But don't preach to others switch bitch" (said to the person who posted about subbing for a year).

*He told me to post this, so if there's any problem with His quote take it up with Him*