Dom out of line?

[Pure]

Ava, you said,

if i knew one of my friends was being cheated on, i would sure as hell tell him/her.

of course in the present case of Tome, friendship of the person being told was not involved. * would you tell a stranger about her (possibly) cheating partner.

be that as it may.
for friends, I told you my story. here's another. Let's say Mrs. X believes herself happily married. She married Mr. X, now a successful, wealthy lawyer, right out of high school, so her earning capacity is limited. She is now 40. There are three children 6,8, and 17 and the last, a young woman, is about to go to an expensive college. Her husband does not mistreat Mrs. X, talks to her and from time to time there is sex, which isn't bad. He gives his children lots of attention and love. However, he travels about one month a year, and when he's in Hong Kong, he sees his mistress, whom he has no plans to marry. You find out. You see the concealment is very careful, and will likely succeed as before; but you can 'pull the plug' on this family.

Do you not have to weigh the repercussion rather carefully? The heartbreak of your friend. The lowering of the standard of living of the family, substantially, when she takes the kids. The kids seeing MUCH less of their father, whom they now see as a scoundrel. The possible NOT being able to go to her first-choice college, of the eldest. In the divorce, Mrs. X is up against a lawyer and his firm, and all the tricks by which he's sequestered his (their) assets.

Lastly, how relevant is the closeness of the friendship of you and Mrs. X? Suppose for example, Mrs X. is one of a circle of your friends, but not among your closest?

----
*PS. Let's consider where the situation has a slight complication, as in the Tome example. YOU yourself cheated with your friend's husband. (Of course it was Mardi Gras, he was masked, and you didn't know till too late, etc. etc.) Now, would you tell her?

 

[shy slave]

Ava, you said,

if i knew one of my friends was being cheated on, i would sure as hell tell him/her.

of course in the present case of Tome, friendship of the person being told was not involved. * would you tell a stranger about her (possibly) cheating partner.

be that as it may.
for friends, I told you my story. here's another. Let's say Mrs. X believes herself happily married. She married Mr. X, now a successful, wealthy lawyer, right out of high school, so her earning capacity is limited. She is now 40. There are three children 6,8, and 17 and the last, a young woman, is about to go to an expensive college. Her husband does not mistreat Mrs. X, talks to her and from time to time there is sex, which isn't bad. He gives his children lots of attention and love. However, he travels about one month a year, and when he's in Hong Kong, he sees his mistress, whom he has no plans to marry. You find out. You see the concealment is very careful, and will likely succeed as before; but you can 'pull the plug' on this family.

Do you not have to weigh the repercussion rather carefully? The heartbreak of your friend. The lowering of the standard of living of the family, substantially, when she takes the kids. The kids seeing MUCH less of their father, whom they now see as a scoundrel. The possible NOT being able to go to her first-choice college, of the eldest. In the divorce, Mrs. X is up against a lawyer and his firm, and all the tricks by which he's sequestered his (their) assets.

Lastly, how relevant is the closeness of the friendship of you and Mrs. X? Suppose for example, Mrs X. is one of a circle of your friends, but not among your closest?

----
*PS. Let's consider where the situation has a slight complication, as in the Tome example. YOU yourself cheated with your friend's husband. (Of course it was Mardi Gras, he was masked, and you didn't know till too late, etc. etc.) Now, would you tell her?

The ethical and moral dilemma. ~
Why would you tell her? Consider the motivation for telling:

1.The self-righteous "She has a right to know."
2.The 'caring' lean on me friend.
3.You always thought he was a bastard and she never should of married him, and now she will see your point of view.
4.Your life is very different from hers and telling her will make your situations more equal.

Consider the above options as shallow, self-centred and fulfil your needs more effectively than Mrs X.
Now why would you tell her?

She may already know and choose to ignore it. After all sex is not the be-all and end-all to a relationship regardless of how important it is.

She may have decided the pay-off for her lifestyle, her childrens future and the attention he gives both her (not ill treatment) and the children is worth a mistress elsewhere.
After all its not in the same country, its not paraded under her nose, which could be viewed as thoughtful from Mrs X point of view.
Mrs X is not a close friend, so back to the list.

1. Why does she have a right to know? If you decide she has this right are you the person to tell he? IF your not a close friend can you cope with her reaction which may be as extreme as no reaction to suicide.

2. If you tell her because you 'care' it, maybe it has happened to you and you were the last to know. What need in you is there that you wish to make Mrs X co-dependant on you? Or perhaps you are tyrying to avenge your own situation by believing your own pyl never got their comuppance but Mr X will.

3. What made you think this, are you jealous?

4. Is lifestyle security more important to you, than everything you have in your life?

Pure's ps ~ Telling Mrs X because you had a brief fling, could be seen as personal atonement for your lack of foresight.

(In Tome's case she knew he was being unfaithful, whether the other person was collared or not should not matter. His poor morals remain poor morals. Perhaps you need to raise your standards Tome and have more faith in yourself and what you have to give a Dom).

Revenge because he decided to stay with Mrs X and his mistress and not you.

My personal opinion is that unless there are extreme circumstances you don't interfer with with other peoples relationships. No-one knows what goes on behind closed doors. Closet BDSM'rs understand that more than most.
Relationships are made up of spoken or unspoken trade-offs and compromises.
Telling is usually seen as a means of revenge or suspicious (whats in it for the person who tells).
Fungiug says it well when he said
I don't think "ratting out" the Dom had anything to do with a "moral mandate" -- it was all about revenge for betrayal.

In Pure's earlier post about he reason for his telling a friend the relationship was heading out, and he spoke up to support a friend. not for vengeful reasons.

I can't help but believe in Karma "What goes around comes around." Everyone makes mistakes, but some are for our own 5 minute victory and selfish gain, which to my mind does not add up to the definition of a mistake at all.

 

[AvaAdore]

Ava, you said,

if i knew one of my friends was being cheated on, i would sure as hell tell him/her.

of course in the present case of Tome, friendship of the person being told was not involved. * would you tell a stranger about her (possibly) cheating partner.

be that as it may.
for friends, I told you my story. here's another. Let's say Mrs. X believes herself happily married. She married Mr. X, now a successful, wealthy lawyer, right out of high school, so her earning capacity is limited. She is now 40. There are three children 6,8, and 17 and the last, a young woman, is about to go to an expensive college. Her husband does not mistreat Mrs. X, talks to her and from time to time there is sex, which isn't bad. He gives his children lots of attention and love. However, he travels about one month a year, and when he's in Hong Kong, he sees his mistress, whom he has no plans to marry. You find out. You see the concealment is very careful, and will likely succeed as before; but you can 'pull the plug' on this family.

Do you not have to weigh the repercussion rather carefully? The heartbreak of your friend. The lowering of the standard of living of the family, substantially, when she takes the kids. The kids seeing MUCH less of their father, whom they now see as a scoundrel. The possible NOT being able to go to her first-choice college, of the eldest. In the divorce, Mrs. X is up against a lawyer and his firm, and all the tricks by which he's sequestered his (their) assets.

Lastly, how relevant is the closeness of the friendship of you and Mrs. X? Suppose for example, Mrs X. is one of a circle of your friends, but not among your closest?

Actually, I think i would talk to Mr. X and see if he really cares about Mrs. X. If he does, I might keep it to mysefl. However, I would feel guilty knowing and not saying anything to Mrs. X.

If Mrs. X was my very best friend in the whole wide world, I would definately tell her, because if she found out I knew and said nothing, she would kill me for sure.

It's hard for me to think of what I would actually do becasue I have never been in that situation. At my age, none of my friends are married with children and have their own stable families, etc, so it's really hard to say without all the life experience. Also, I am ALWAYS the last to know about relationship dramas. By the time I find out, it is common knowledge.

----
*PS. Let's consider where the situation has a slight complication, as in the Tome example. YOU yourself cheated with your friend's husband. (Of course it was Mardi Gras, he was masked, and you didn't know till too late, etc. etc.) Now, would you tell her?

Given that in general I don't sleep with random strangers, I don't know. If I want to preserve my friendship with my friend, I would tell her. If it all came out of the closet some time later and I never said anything to her, it would seem as if I was deliberately hiding it. She would never trust me again.

 

[Pure]

it's a relief to know your strangers are non-random!

 

[bridgeburner]

Ava,

you know, if i were the one who was cheated on, i'd like to know. yes, i would be upset and angry, but if i didnt know about it i would be living a lie.

If you didn't know about it you couldn't possibly care one way or the other. Why be unhappy when you can be happy? Nobody wants to be made a fool of, but most infidelities aren't a circus of everyone standing around pointing and laughing at the injured party. Not all people who stray are chronic or even repeat offenders. Not all people who have straying partners are blind to it and not all of them would choose to know. It's not a decision that you can make for someone you don't know well. It's certainly not a decision you should make for a stranger. That's just arrogant and self-righteous whether or not you're the other person involved in the affair.

i cant stand being lied to. i would rather know the truth if it hurt me than live blissfully unaware. shit, and if i knew one of my friends was being cheated on, i would sure as hell tell him/her.

I don't like to be betrayed or mistreated and often that entails being lied to, but I'm sure some people have lied to me out of love and care and that some of those lies have saved me from hurt over things that I couldn't have changed had I known the truth. I know I've told lies like that. Did the other bridesmaid and my friend's wedding really need to know that years before she even met her husband he had a night of marathon sex with me? No. "Bridge, this is my husband Bob."...."Pleased to meet you, Bob." Move on.

It's all very well to talk about absolute truth and the right to know, but honesty is not always the best policy and truth doesn't always set you free. You can only make those decisions for yourself and for those close enough to you that you can reasonably know their minds.

Actually, I think i would talk to Mr. X and see if he really cares about Mrs. X. If he does, I might keep it to mysefl.

And you would determine this, how? What in the world qualifies you to pass final judgement on the authenticity of someone else's emotions? Do you really feel that you have a mandate to be the arbiter of other people's relationships? I know you mean well, but surely you must see how misguided that sounds?

"Well, generally I'd say he's a schmuck and his wife should be told but if I think he really cares about her, even though he lies to her and cheats on her, then I maybe won't tell. This guy over here, though, I don't believe his love is sincere so I'm going to rat him out."

That just sounds dicey as hell, to me.

-B

 

[AvaAdore]

it's a relief to know your strangers are non-random!

and how strange they are...

 

[AvaAdore]

Ava,



If you didn't know about it you couldn't possibly care one way or the other. Why be unhappy when you can be happy? Nobody wants to be made a fool of, but most infidelities aren't a circus of everyone standing around pointing and laughing at the injured party. Not all people who stray are chronic or even repeat offenders. Not all people who have straying partners are blind to it and not all of them would choose to know. It's not a decision that you can make for someone you don't know well. It's certainly not a decision you should make for a stranger. That's just arrogant and self-righteous whether or not you're the other person involved in the affair.




I don't like to be betrayed or mistreated and often that entails being lied to, but I'm sure some people have lied to me out of love and care and that some of those lies have saved me from hurt over things that I couldn't have changed had I known the truth. I know I've told lies like that. Did the other bridesmaid and my friend's wedding really need to know that years before she even met her husband he had a night of marathon sex with me? No. "Bridge, this is my husband Bob."...."Pleased to meet you, Bob." Move on.

It's all very well to talk about absolute truth and the right to know, but honesty is not always the best policy and truth doesn't always set you free. You can only make those decisions for yourself and for those close enough to you that you can reasonably know their minds.



And you would determine this, how? What in the world qualifies you to pass final judgement on the authenticity of someone else's emotions? Do you really feel that you have a mandate to be the arbiter of other people's relationships? I know you mean well, but surely you must see how misguided that sounds?

"Well, generally I'd say he's a schmuck and his wife should be told but if I think he really cares about her, even though he lies to her and cheats on her, then I maybe won't tell. This guy over here, though, I don't believe his love is sincere so I'm going to rat him out."

That just sounds dicey as hell, to me.

-B

Well, i AM self-righteous, inexperienced, and consequently working from ideals in my mind. If/when i am ever in the situation, i'll be sure to let you know how it all went.

I think a lot of the world suffers from apathy. People should get fired up every so often. It keeps you on your toes and makes you feel alive.

 

[crimsonlace]

I think a lot of the world suffers from apathy. People should get fired up every so often. It keeps you on your toes and makes you feel alive.

I apologize, I confess I have not read this entire thread, I would only caution that in making yourself feel alive, you do it in a way that doesn't injure others unnecessarilly.