Don't Let The Screen Door Hit You....

[littleninja]

And IMO, those who think Paul insane just don't understand the depth of his message about the Love of God - it is all the same message as the other great enlightened ones - 'Love and do no harm', or, 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, for thus is summed up all of the Law...'

Hehehe.... clearly, you don't understand. I just had a flashback to DnD night. Did you mean Jesus there? I think those quotes are attributed to him, whereas Paul was the guy who expounded upon the message of love. In doing so, he managed to create a lot of man-made doctrine... some of which was helpful, lots of which was inconsistent and/or harmful. Fundamentalist Christianity wouldn't be quite the monster it has become if people could just stop quoting Paul and get back to imitating Jesus.

Also, in bringing out the full context of that verse about homosexuals, thieves, adulterers etc. not inheriting the kingdom of God, you're simply reiterating the idea that homosexuality is essentially evil, as is everything else on the list. You're saying that being GLBT is indeed evil, but it's okay because God will forgive us. I don't think there's anything evil about it.

But now we've hijacked the thread.... so back to the topic at hand.

People who don't live according to their convictions are wishy washy and annoying. So if this guy has a conviction leading him to resign, I say good on him. I don't agree with him, and I wish he could be more open minded, but he has shown consistency and integrity in following his convictions despite the likelihood of negative fallout. Just going from the article here..... he hasn't made a big stink, he didn't go on a rant, he didn't force his morality on someone else.... He just opted to leave. Disagreeing and then going on your merry way is a lot more difficult than sticking around and being an asshole about it. He's there until the end of '09, maybe he'll have a change of heart by the time he's gone.

I will say that had I never made friends with the lesbians who bought my childhood home, or the ones who live next door to me now, or for that matter had I never come to this website, I might still be trying to convince myself that I'm definitely straight.... yet somehow frigid.

So will straight kids who join an an alliance club with gay kids become gay or bisexual? Possibly, in time, some of them might. However the logic of "by joining the club they will be having sex" is flawed, I agree.

 

[alaskabibear]

I never intended this thread to be negative on a persons religious beliefs.

In the past I have been a VERY conservative Christian. In fact, I hid behind that and denied who I really was cuz everyone expected me to be a "certain" way.

Ya know, if ANY religion makes you happy....go with it.

But remember, this school in qustion is a PUBLIC school.

Just cuz this yahoo is Christian gives him NO right to try to push his beliefs onto the students.

If this was a private school, I'd have to say....whatever dude.


The fact is that the young adults were mature enough to reach out to one another to provide support.

However, this dickhead intended to squash that compassion just cuz his personal "beliefs" are against it.


Maybe he should do a little more Bible study.

In particular Pslams 8:2 "Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger."






Can I get an Amen?

I'll give you an Amen. (but I like this quote about when a self righteous crowd was going to stone a woman caught in adultery better; "...He (Jesus) raised Himself up and said to them, 'He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.'...Then those who heard it, being convicted in their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last...St. John 8:7-9).

You know, I too was once a very conservative Christian - then I began to study the earliest ancient documents from the early Church (e.g. those in addition to the canon of scripture). What I found is that modern American Christianity actually has little resemblance to the original. Of course the problem with all religions is that people tend to forget that each and every one of them is an attempt by humans to make some sense, to somehow codify and explain the inner intuition most have that there is something more - a "God", a "Creator", a "First Cause"... And when understood and accepted as such I don't think there is any thing wrong with religions - we are after all spiritual beings having a temporary physical experience, and as such it is only natural to attempt to use the physical senses to express what most religions agree is in an inexpressible concept - e.g. GOD.

But as to the self righteous, me thinks it would behoove us all to remember our own sins, faults and weaknesses before we set ourselves as judge over others. (and an interesting side note about the word 'sin'; many people seem to get their hackles up at the mere mention of "sin". But the word actually has it's Greek origins in an archery term which simply implies 'a falling short of the target'. Thus, as it applies to God - it is a falling short of the greatness, goodness and glory of the One who created all we know to exist - the very source of Life. I for one am willing to admit that I probably do fall a bit short of that target. If everyone would just admit that, where then would be the condemnation of others? And without the condemnation of others, the children in this story would not even need to form a support group...and the guy could keep his job...and on and on... )

 

[alaskabibear]

Hehehe.... clearly, you don't understand. I just had a flashback to DnD night. Did you mean Jesus there? I think those quotes are attributed to him, whereas Paul was the guy who expounded upon the message of love. In doing so, he managed to create a lot of man-made doctrine... some of which was helpful, lots of which was inconsistent and/or harmful. Fundamentalist Christianity wouldn't be quite the monster it has become if people could just stop quoting Paul and get back to imitating Jesus.

Also, in bringing out the full context of that verse about homosexuals, thieves, adulterers etc. not inheriting the kingdom of God, you're simply reiterating the idea that homosexuality is essentially evil, as is everything else on the list. You're saying that being GLBT is indeed evil, but it's okay because God will forgive us. I don't think there's anything evil about it.

But now we've hijacked the thread.... so back to the topic at hand.

.

No I think I'll stick to my original statement about most people not fully understanding St. Paul. I'll quote St. Peter on the subject "...and consider that the long-suffering of our Lord is salvation - as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do the rest of the Scriptures. 2 Peter 3:15-16 (and I didn't make a mistake on the quotes - one is from Jesus, the other is from Buddhism I think - but St. Paul spoke the same message.)

As to evil and such, the point I have been trying to make in all of this is that we are all evil in many ways - that is, when we compare our own heart to the shining goodness that is God. But, one "evil" is no worse or less worse that any other "evil". I recall Jesus said that to just look upon a woman with lust in ones heart is "sin" - now tell me, what man among us has not done that? The "sin" comes into play when our lust is born not of love, but out of personal selfishness. That is the point in all of this in regards to the man who felt compelled to leave his job because the "sin" of accepting a homosexual was more than he could take. He simply has failed to think about his own "sin". And to illustrate how foolish this all seems, how silly it would be for someone else to quit their job because perhaps this man's sin had been to have read a Playboy magazine with selfish lust in his his heart. And yet, according to his own scriptures, his sin is no less than the homosexual he condemns.

 

[renard_ruse]

Wow, good for this courageous man. I've watched over the last thirty years as these kinds of sex clubs have been started in schools (with minor aged students), yet no one does anything. Its appalling. This is about promoting sexual activity among minor children. Glad to see someone stand up against this, for whatever reason regardless of whether its religion or simply non-religious ethical grounds.

 

[renard_ruse]

So will straight kids who join an an alliance club with gay kids become gay or bisexual? Possibly, in time, some of them might. However the logic of "by joining the club they will be having sex" is flawed, I agree.

Its a sexuality based club and thus has no business in a school. Its wrong for minors to have sex. Schools should not have any such clubs. The western world is insane today.

 

[infinity706]

Minors are going to have sex anyway. The point is for them to be knowlegable so they can be as safe as possible. Promoting abstinence isn't a bad idea, but it hasn't proven to have much effect at all on whether students are going to go fuck each other's brains out, so something else has to be done in addition.

 

[littleninja]

Hehehe.... clearly, you don't understand. I just had a flashback to DnD night.

It just occurred to me that this comment might have come across as asinine without the appropriate context.... it's a running joke when discussing the endless rules of dnd and no solution is in sight.... obviously we could go on about this stuff from now until eternity and never see eye to eye. Every once in a while I slip into the local nerd dialect.... I wasn't trying to be an ass.

Thought I should mention that.

 

[alaskabibear]

It just occurred to me that this comment might have come across as asinine without the appropriate context.... it's a running joke when discussing the endless rules of dnd and no solution is in sight.... obviously we could go on about this stuff from now until eternity and never see eye to eye. Every once in a while I slip into the local nerd dialect.... I wasn't trying to be an ass.

Thought I should mention that.

haha! To be honest, I didn't understand the context of your thought. (But, of course I am too proud to admit that). I think what your describing is like a math professor I had in college - he would work himself into a box and then in his heavy Chinese accent step back and say, "...ummm, how to solve...how to solve....very difficult...maybe no solution..."

And of course it is foolish for humans to ever think that we can ever truly understand and explain the unexplainable - and yet, like the seemingly "no solution in sight" situations you recall - we are drawn to keep searching for the solution - somehow knowing there is one somewhere.

And I didn't think you "an ass" at all, but someone who has given a lot of thought to the subject. I hope my own feeble words were taken in the loving spirit intended as well.