dudes, just a thought

[Cordelia]

Cool.

Now that I am back in the game with a clear computer, I can go read and vote.

Skipping off to read,



Cordelia

 

[Senna Jawa]

I meant for me, your audience, not for you.

When it comes to the meaning you may stubbornly refuse to acknowledge it even if it's there objectively. You can always say "not to me" or something like this. But in the case of images?! They're there, there is no way around them, they are staring in your face. (If you still say "no", then there is no point in communication).

 

[perks]

When it comes to the meaning you may stubbornly refuse to acknowledge it even if it's there objectively. You can always say "not to me" or something like this. But in the case of images?! They're there, there is no way around them, they are staring in your face. (If you still say "no", then there is no point in communication).

I think you react to what I say, the same way I react to what you say, SJ. You're right, if you still say "no" then there is no point in communication.

I'll agree to disagree with you, because you never take any kind of feedback that isn't your own.

 

[Senna Jawa]

Originally posted by perks I'll agree to disagree with you, because you never take any kind of feedback that isn't your own. [/B]

Perks, it's crazy. There are limits to "in my opinion", because there is also the hard reality out there.

Consider the first of the two pieces in 10 words = 2 poems:
 

        airplanes enter clouds
        people fall asleep

 
wh,
1995-11-20

How can you object to the image in this one?! And there is a lot of different interpretations and meaning to it, but ok, be blind to it, your choice (but don't you at least know the saying that someone has to stay guard for someone else to sleep peacefully)?

Take the other one:

 
                pigeonshit
                in my mailbox
 

wh,
1995-12-11

Again the image hits you between the eyes. And if you deny it, what can I say, except that it's crazy. The meaning? Never heard of postal pigeons? Even if not, the poem is still meaningful!

Possibly the meaning of [a pond...] escapes the great majority of the readers at Literotica. It is an ironic statement about many haiku writers, who write pseudo-japanese nonsense about trembling plucked cherries, while we are several centuries ahead and we have new scenes, new symbolism, new life. But forget the meaning. The image once again is there clear cut. Here is the text:

 
        a pond a frog a guy
        and his cadillac parked nearby
 

wh,
1995-11-03

(It makes an allusion to a classic Basho's haiku).

Then in autumn reflection you have another striking image, even two images. You don't want to reflect? Fine. But note the precise technique: in the context of autumn the falling of leaves is trite. But in my poem I am NOT making a direct mentioning of leaves falling (it's done indirectly!). Instead I direct you, the reader, far away from small, tiny leaves toward the mountains. And the same word fall this time is used in an original, fresh way, without any tiring effect of trite phrases.

Then the same, image and meaning wise, goes for[excited...] and [the two...].

It somehow has happened that the last poem has plucked at a string in you. Fine, I am glad. This doesn't mean that the rest of them is missing on imagery.

And if by my "new" poems you also meant kindergarten then I can only challenge you to show me poems which have equally sharp, precise imagery. On literotica, of the poems by other authors, I know only one, "End of Summer" by Angeline.

So much for "in my opinion". Such false "tolerance" can be a major obstacle to learning poetry.

This board does harm its participants, it softens their brains. Especially the critiqueless by popular demand "New poems" thread. Even Angeline and Eve choose on occasions not just horrible poems but also, perhaps on other occasions, they extract the worst portions from poems as the most shiny ones. It is really bad for the authors and for the readers of our board, for their artistic development.

No wonder that people here rarely have taste for good poetry. Just like those who drink hot chocolate and similar, can't appreciate green tea (oh, what's thaaaaat?!!! Ugh, uck, it's just ucky water ).

Regards,

                Senna Jawa

PS. My solstice poem made it to my list but not to the new poems listing (not yet--the same pieces of info show at Lit at different places at different times instead of doing so simultaneously, which indicates a serious data base conceptual flaw of the Lit software design).

 

[perks]

Perks, it's crazy. There are limits to "in my opinion", because there is also the hard reality out there.

Consider the first of the two pieces in 10 words = 2 poems:
 

        airplanes enter clouds
        people fall asleep

 
wh,
1995-11-20

How can you object to the image in this one?! And there is a lot of different interpretations and meaning to it, but ok, be blind to it, your choice (but don't you at least know the saying that someone has to stay guard for someone else to sleep peacefully)?

now I have your perspective, but you said nothing about anyone falling asleep peacefully in your poem. My point is that your imagery is incomplete to anyone that isn't thinking like you, and obviously I don't. That is why I like some of your poetry and don't like others. I have a poem called cock refracted, It has something like a 3 in the voting. And I know it's because people don't understand it. However, I do. I realize my perspective, and accept that others have different perspectives. I don't tell them they're objecting to the imagery, because I know they don't get it. It's ok, that they don't, I accept that they don't get the imagery, because I know I didn't explain it. You don't accept that any of your poetry isn't clear, because all you see is your perspective. Hello, I'm telling you. You are not clear, except in your explanation. Sure if you walk me through all of your poetry, then I'll get it. But why should you have to? And why shouldn't I be able to understand just from reading? That doesn't make me blind any more than it makes you unclear.

Take the other one:

 
                pigeonshit
                in my mailbox
 

wh,
1995-12-11

Again the image hits you between the eyes. And if you deny it, what can I say, except that it's crazy. The meaning? Never heard of postal pigeons? Even if not, the poem is still meaningful!
meaning what? It's like you think to direct the reader to what you want them to "get" but I'm not reading your direction at all in this poem. Where am I supposed to go with my thought process? I really don't know.

Possibly the meaning of [a pond...] escapes the great majority of the readers at Literotica. It is an ironic statement about many haiku writers, who write pseudo-japanese nonsense about trembling plucked cherries, while we are several centuries ahead and we have new scenes, new symbolism, new life. But forget the meaning. The image once again is there clear cut. Here is the text:

 
        a pond a frog a guy
        and his cadillac parked nearby
 

wh,
1995-11-03

(It makes an allusion to a classic Basho's haiku).

this one I didn't get the allusion, obviously I'm not as well read. However, I did appreciate this one a little, but again, you assume that everyone is at your level, and your level, while you may think is lofty, is only different.

Then in autumn reflection you have another striking image, even two images. You don't want to reflect? Fine. But note the precise technique: in the context of autumn the falling of leaves is trite. But in my poem I am NOT making a direct mentioning of leaves falling (it's done indirectly!). Instead I direct you, the reader, far away from small, tiny leaves toward the mountains. And the same word fall this time is used in an original, fresh way, without any tiring effect of trite phrases.precise technique? Don't confuse simple and minimalist for precision.

Then the same, image and meaning wise, goes for[excited...] and [the two...].

It somehow has happened that the last poem has plucked at a string in you. Fine, I am glad. This doesn't mean that the rest of them is missing on imagery. It means that I didn't follow you, because I'm not bringing the same set of knowledge to your poetry that you do, Sj. Even just being aware of that might help you. But you don't think you have anything to work on, do you? What if, you're not what you think you are, really.

And if by my "new" poems you also meant kindergarten then I can only challenge you to show me poems which have equally sharp, precise imagery. On literotica, of the poems by other authors, I know only one, "End of Summer" by Angeline.

So much for "in my opinion". Such false "tolerance" can be a major obstacle to learning poetry. why is sharp precise imagery your only goal?<which honestly, if you were so sharp and precise, we wouldn't be having this discussion> And do you really think that nothing can be learned from different styles?

This board does harm its participants, it softens their brains. Especially the critiqueless by popular demand "New poems" thread. Even Angeline and Eve choose on occasions not just horrible poems but also, perhaps on other occasions, they extract the worst portions from poems as the most shiny ones. It is really bad for the authors and for the readers of our board, for their artistic development.

horrible to you. I'm very glad that you don't speak for everyone. What a horrid mechanical misunderstood world this would be.

No wonder that people here rarely have taste for good poetry. Just like those who drink hot chocolate and similar, can't appreciate green tea (oh, what's thaaaaat?!!! Ugh, uck, it's just ucky water ).

and those that drink green tea look down their nose at the hot chocolate. Sometimes I pity you, that you can't see more than your supposed perfection. You miss so much intensity, warmth and joy. It looks like we're back to agreeing to disagree, my fellow poet

Regards,

                Senna Jawa

PS. My solstice poem made it to my list but not to the new poems listing (not yet--the same pieces of info show at Lit at different places at different times instead of doing so simultaneously, which indicates a serious data base conceptual flaw of the Lit software design).
software design? Doesn't really matter, in the scheme of things, does it? It boggles my mind how much you strive for perfection, how much you need it in everything you're part of, and yet, you never see when you fail, so you can't ever reach your goal.

 

[Tangerine Sex Dream]

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Thank you for reading my post!

no disrespect intended, freesexpics person, but this post is almost funny after reading what senna and perks had to say about...whatever it was...comic relief?

oh and senna, I had nver heard of carrier pigeons referred to as postal, but that might explain the pigeonshit in your mailbox...

 

[Icingsugar]

PS. My solstice poem made it to my list but not to the new poems listing (not yet--the same pieces of info show at Lit at different places at different times instead of doing so simultaneously, which indicates a serious data base conceptual flaw of the Lit software design).

As a representative of The Guys Who Knows Web Site Technologies And Shit, I'd like to offer a possible explanation to this. I'm guessing it's not a flaw in the software, but an intentional choice, to keep the workload of the database server at a minimum. By generating snaphots of the most visited pages (the New, Top and category listings), the stress on the database server is reduced greatly. Thus allowing the site to respond and load smoothly.

One of the sites I work for does this on a general basis, it's fairly standard practice for a site with a heavy workload (...and maybe not enough money to just buy more and more server power.)

/Ice - über geek


ps. Tangerine Sex Dream, that freesexpix thiny is just a spamming moron.