early concerns or fears?

[catalina_francisco]

Neon, If you don't mind me asking about this? Pretty much everything I've read puts sub space in a positive light. What did you find you didn't like about it?

Rox.

It is not always positive. F has had subs go into subspace, and though he says he will take me there at some point, he does not and will not tolerate it as something that happens regularly. The reason being he expects my focus to be on him, and with awareness and sensation of the pain I am receiving, not spacing out in my own little cloud of delight where the pain is not touching me in the way he intends and my mind is not his to work with. There have been some great threads around here form time to time about subspace, and also there was one I did on slavespace where both states were discussed. ONe discussion that happened was about whether it was something a sub could control as in whether they went there or not and many thought it couldn't be but then one of our previous regular posters who had been one to go into subspace very easily and often was told she no longer was allowed to and was able to stop it happening. Is a fascinating area.

Catalina

 

[insertcutename]

One thing i'm scared/unsure of is asking more of my Daddy than he is ready to give. I try not to overstep any boundries, even though we haven't really laid any down. I want to be the perfect sub for him, he deserves it.

 

[SweetErika]

I swing back and forth with the trust issue too. More towards not trusting enough, but I also know I can get caught up in things so it has become something to think about as well.

But the overthinking things made me smile because I do that all the time. And then second guess myself. Sometimes I think it's a stall tactic I create for myself to put off doing something I'm afraid to do.

I'm not even sure if it's all about not trusting others; much of it is about not trusting myself to know when something is wrong. I've been hurt badly by people I knew extremely well and proved themselves trustworthy until that one event, and to this day I can't see any valid red flags or something that should have made my intuition sound. If it was a matter of not listening to myself I'd have an easier time of it, but since I've always relied heavily on my intuition because it's never been wrong when it does sound, I'm kind of at a loss as to whether I can trust it to tell me when something's not right in the future.

I like your theory on overthinking, and can see where that's applicable to me sometimes, too. Most of the time, though, it's just how I'm wired and a mechanism to protect myself from guilt/self-blame ('if I've considered well, I've done my best and that's all anyone, including me, can be expected to do, so I can't punish myself too much for it' is my line of reasoning for that one).

It's good that you have a community play space - can I ask you about your area? Yea, dating is pretty "not fun" sometimes. I've decided to give up looking for a kinky GF right now, because of that, LOL...

You can, and I'll even answer. But it'll arrive in an Inbox near you soon, since I don't want to hijack or give specifics in public.

Ugh...don't remind me of women! FF are rewarding, but far more difficult than MF for me. I can't even fathom having the energy to deal with someone similar to me right now.

 

[Rox_shybutcurious]

It is not always positive. F has had subs go into subspace, and though he says he will take me there at some point, he does not and will not tolerate it as something that happens regularly. The reason being he expects my focus to be on him, and with awareness and sensation of the pain I am receiving, not spacing out in my own little cloud of delight where the pain is not touching me in the way he intends and my mind is not his to work with. There have been some great threads around here form time to time about subspace, and also there was one I did on slavespace where both states were discussed. ONe discussion that happened was about whether it was something a sub could control as in whether they went there or not and many thought it couldn't be but then one of our previous regular posters who had been one to go into subspace very easily and often was told she no longer was allowed to and was able to stop it happening. Is a fascinating area.

Catalina

I hadn't thought of it like that, keeping the focus on what was going on. I think I'll go back through and look up some of the threads you mentioned. They sound interesting.

Thanks.

Rox.

 

[Rox_shybutcurious]

I like your theory on overthinking, and can see where that's applicable to me sometimes, too. Most of the time, though, it's just how I'm wired and a mechanism to protect myself from guilt/self-blame ('if I've considered well, I've done my best and that's all anyone, including me, can be expected to do, so I can't punish myself too much for it' is my line of reasoning for that one).

I like this philosophy. Consider well and do your best. It speaks true of a lot of things in life. Thanks.

Rox.

 

[neonflux]

I'm not even sure if it's all about not trusting others; much of it is about not trusting myself to know when something is wrong. I've been hurt badly by people I knew extremely well and proved themselves trustworthy until that one event, and to this day I can't see any valid red flags or something that should have made my intuition sound. If it was a matter of not listening to myself I'd have an easier time of it, but since I've always relied heavily on my intuition because it's never been wrong when it does sound, I'm kind of at a loss as to whether I can trust it to tell me when something's not right in the future.

I understand this fear - that sometimes there are no red flags. I have finally decided, after experiencing several such betrayals (the most recent being my primary breaking up with me temporarily to go back to his ex), that people who are normally quite trustworthy are also human, and make mistakes occasionally - mistakes that it's impossible to anticipate. Which makes all of this a little scary. Neon

(Maybe it's time to resucitate the trust thread. )

 

[Netzach]

Neon, If you don't mind me asking about this? Pretty much everything I've read puts sub space in a positive light. What did you find you didn't like about it?

Rox.

I'll leap in here where I'm not asked and put in another vote on the "subspace not so good" side.

For some people that floaty detached totally open and vulnerable feeling is a good and happy goal. I did it. I liked it. Rather too much, I think. The crash was not worth it. I made a conscious decision that I never want to be that vulnerable with anyone, even the ersatz Goddess that might have spit me into the world.

I've since gotten ample opportunity to feel out-of-control of my life via the course of daily events, I don't feel "off balance" like I used to as an active switch, and I don't miss the crash. At all.

 

[Rox_shybutcurious]

I'll leap in here where I'm not asked and put in another vote on the "subspace not so good" side.

For some people that floaty detached totally open and vulnerable feeling is a good and happy goal. I did it. I liked it. Rather too much, I think. The crash was not worth it. I made a conscious decision that I never want to be that vulnerable with anyone, even the ersatz Goddess that might have spit me into the world.

I've since gotten ample opportunity to feel out-of-control of my life via the course of daily events, I don't feel "off balance" like I used to as an active switch, and I don't miss the crash. At all.

Thanks Netzach, I guess I really do need to read more up on this. While the idea of it sounds intriguing I'm not good at being vulnerable. I think I might have trouble with this myself.

Rox.

 

[neonflux]

Neon, If you don't mind me asking about this? Pretty much everything I've read puts sub space in a positive light. What did you find you didn't like about it?

Rox.

Sorry, Rox. Didn't realize that I hadn't responded to this question until I read Netzach's response - which is pretty true for me, also. The subdrop, and feeling that out of control, isn't worth it to me - spent 4 days of last week almost non-functional, and had lots of work to do. Spent the next two days working to find myself again - finally did but the process was long and difficult... I know this isn't the same for everyone, but I much prefer being in control, which I take to mean that while I can enjoy bottoming, I am NOT really cut out for submission. Neon

EDITED TO ADD: Oh, thought of two additional fears/concerns, which are very much with me at the moment:

1. that i might lose my primary due to his not being into BDSM
2. that because he doesn't want to lose me, i might pressure him into doing something against his nature without ever intending to or knowing that I've done so

 

[Rox_shybutcurious]

Sorry, Rox. Didn't realize that I hadn't responded to this question until I read Netzach's response - which is pretty true for me, also. The subdrop, and feeling that out of control, isn't worth it to me - spent 4 days of last week almost non-functional, and had lots of work to do. Spent the next two days working to find myself again - finally did but the process was long and difficult... I know this isn't the same for everyone, but I much prefer being in control, which I take to mean that while I can enjoy bottoming, I am NOT really cut out for submission. Neon

EDITED TO ADD: Oh, thought of two additional fears/concerns, which are very much with me at the moment:

1. that i might lose my primary due to his not being into BDSM
2. that because he doesn't want to lose me, i might pressure him into doing something against his nature without ever intending to or knowing that I've done so

Thanks Neon, I also am begining to think I'm more of a bottom than sub. And {{hugs}} on your situation with your primary. So sorry you're going through this and hope things get better.

Rox.

 

[Netzach]

Thanks Netzach, I guess I really do need to read more up on this. While the idea of it sounds intriguing I'm not good at being vulnerable. I think I might have trouble with this myself.

Rox.

Hmmm.

I'd argue in favor of not limiting yourself for fear of what "might happen."
You know yourself better than anyone, indeed, but you can throw yourself some surprises. I found that it wasn't going to work for me, but I'm really *glad* to say I can reject it on the basis of having done it rather than just assuming things.

 

[Toa_lin]

time for a new take on this idea....

Since I AM a relatively new Dom, i still know all my fears.

a) The first fear I had was telling my girl that I was into this, ((my ex had been a sub, and she quickly discovered just how dominant I enjoy being b4 I truly realised it)) and I had teh added fear that I told her about it right from teh bat... [[I thought it best to let her know exactly what she COULD be getting herself into from teh get-go]]

b) A slight fear that my girl was just saying she'd been secretly fantasising abotu being controlled for a while, just because she cares soo much abotu me. And didn't want me to feel like a freak.

c) A slight fear that any form of physical "punishment" [aka whip paddle etc.] I might be a bit too hard at first... ((I'm pretty physically fit and sometimes don't know my own strength so to speak))

d) fear she might feel I'm just using her, or she might have a harder time trusting me cus of this.

Well, that's pretty much the main fears that have come to mind when I think about this, if I had more time i'd think more, but i gotta run

 

[SirFace]

Only been aware and practicing for 5 months with the same woman and I'm still scared most of the time but its an excited feeling, very much an adrenaline rush for me. Much like high speeds or a high freefall or ski jump. I hope it stays that way and never becomes commonplace or work (heaven forbid). In a way I'm scared of how it is changing me but so far, its all been for the good. The new power and confidence has given me the strength to get a major portion of my life in order and save the only true loving relationship Ive ever had. Ill take that kind of fear anyday.

I do get real nervous when she goes into the "place" and Im not getting feedback. Unfortunatly for her, I usually back off some then. That knowledge will come with time and communication. Practice, practice, practice.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

It is not always positive. F has had subs go into subspace, and though he says he will take me there at some point, he does not and will not tolerate it as something that happens regularly. The reason being he expects my focus to be on him, and with awareness and sensation of the pain I am receiving, not spacing out in my own little cloud of delight where the pain is not touching me in the way he intends and my mind is not his to work with. There have been some great threads around here form time to time about subspace, and also there was one I did on slavespace where both states were discussed. ONe discussion that happened was about whether it was something a sub could control as in whether they went there or not and many thought it couldn't be but then one of our previous regular posters who had been one to go into subspace very easily and often was told she no longer was allowed to and was able to stop it happening. Is a fascinating area.

Catalina

i've never seen 'subspace' as a choice. i mean for me anyway, it just kind of happens depending on the play we are doing. and as far as being focused only on Him, when i'm in subspace i am only focused on His voice. interesting indeed to see the differences in people's experiences

 

[minx1]

My biggest concern was the thought that I would be repressing an important part of who I am. In other areas of my life,such as work I'm a strong, independent woman, I have to be. I can be fiercely strongwilled and opinionated and I know I can be a bit of a handful sometimes. Because it was so new to me, and still is really, I didn't understand how I could be all these things and still be a good sub to my Master.
I still don't understand how it works but it does. At no time have I ever felt that I am having to be someone that I am not.

 

[Rox_shybutcurious]

Since I AM a relatively new Dom, i still know all my fears.

a) The first fear I had was telling my girl that I was into this, ((my ex had been a sub, and she quickly discovered just how dominant I enjoy being b4 I truly realised it)) and I had teh added fear that I told her about it right from teh bat... [[I thought it best to let her know exactly what she COULD be getting herself into from teh get-go]]

b) A slight fear that my girl was just saying she'd been secretly fantasising abotu being controlled for a while, just because she cares soo much abotu me. And didn't want me to feel like a freak.

c) A slight fear that any form of physical "punishment" [aka whip paddle etc.] I might be a bit too hard at first... ((I'm pretty physically fit and sometimes don't know my own strength so to speak))

d) fear she might feel I'm just using her, or she might have a harder time trusting me cus of this.

Well, that's pretty much the main fears that have come to mind when I think about this, if I had more time i'd think more, but i gotta run

Thanks Tao_Lin for taking the time to post. It's interesting to me that some of the same kinds of fears are felt on both sides of the coin. I appreciate your input.

Rox.

 

[Rox_shybutcurious]

In a way I'm scared of how it is changing me but so far, its all been for the good. The new power and confidence has given me the strength to get a major portion of my life in order and save the only true loving relationship Ive ever had. Ill take that kind of fear anyday.

I can certainly understand being nervous about change. I know this a big issue for me from childhood, but it sounds like it's a very positive thing for you and I'm glad it's working out.

Rox.

 

[Rox_shybutcurious]

My biggest concern was the thought that I would be repressing an important part of who I am. In other areas of my life,such as work I'm a strong, independent woman, I have to be. I can be fiercely strongwilled and opinionated and I know I can be a bit of a handful sometimes. Because it was so new to me, and still is really, I didn't understand how I could be all these things and still be a good sub to my Master.
I still don't understand how it works but it does. At no time have I ever felt that I am having to be someone that I am not.

It does create a bit of a quandary doesn't it? Fortunately some very good people here have pointed me to a lot of information that's helped me with that. Sometimes it's still a little hard to wrap my head around the idea of being strong willed and able to submit too, but I'm working on it.

Rox.

 

[WriterDom]

In the beginning I had a fear of playing with women with a lot more experience than I had at the time. Experience can be good though. They know 100% that they like what the like and you don't have to worry about them freaking out and running off.

 

[Curious_Red]

My wife and I have gone to two play parties now. She got all excited and joined a BDSM site for us without really knowing what it truly was all about. I of course scrambled and did tons of research to get somewhat acclimated. The first party was good. I didn't do anything of course, I was (and still am) not sure how involved I want to be or what I want to do. She got to dress up a little. A man with a shoe fetish got to lick her boots. She got to be flogged and loved it. We met and continue to talk to two other couples.
The second party was good until the end. She went a lot further this time, and got caught up in the moment and crossed a couple boundaries so it pretty much ruined my evening. Lots of hurt feelings and such I have to get over it all now. With that, here's what fears I have:

I won't ever really want to do much (she has no personal limits yet, she'll be open to hear about and try just about anything). I'll never want to do as much as her and it will always be that way.

I will be causing her to not enjoy herself because I'm not as into it and my boundaries are tighter than hers. She's having a really good time and me, not so much. After the last party, I'm sure she will always be thinking about what I'm wondering instead of enjoying it.

She'll go too far and get hurt (either physically or emotionally).

She'll cross boundaries again and I will get emotionally hurt again.

I will actually do something and then she'll get upset for some reason.

We'll never find a female domme so I can actually try to have some fun. (The male dom that is playing on my wife is a great guy and knows a lot, but much of the erotic nature would not be there for me as he's not bi and it is just not the same. He has no issues in flogging men but it isn't the same treatment either)

I will never really find my place in all this.

I'm holding her back because my limits are lower than hers.

That's about all I can think of right now.

 

[Harmony_1985]

I fear failure.

I fear that when it comes to flogging/whipping/caning etc I won't be able to handle as much as Sir wants me to.

I fear getting things wrong.

I fear disappointing Him.

 

[SweetErika]

The second party was good until the end. She went a lot further this time, and got caught up in the moment and crossed a couple boundaries so it pretty much ruined my evening. Lots of hurt feelings and such I have to get over it all now.

Did you talk about rules beforehand? Speak up when you were uncomfortable?

In my experience, nothing can be done about what happened in the past, but it can help to try to understand and talk about it, and be proactive about the future. Perhaps this is a prime opportunity for you two to reevaluate your boundaries, create more defined agreements and learn about each other.

With that, here's what fears I have:

I won't ever really want to do much (she has no personal limits yet, she'll be open to hear about and try just about anything). I'll never want to do as much as her and it will always be that way.

I will be causing her to not enjoy herself because I'm not as into it and my boundaries are tighter than hers. She's having a really good time and me, not so much. After the last party, I'm sure she will always be thinking about what I'm wondering instead of enjoying it.

Is there anything you can do to avoid such things? For instance, would it help to go to parties separately or kind of do your own things if you're there together?

She'll go too far and get hurt (either physically or emotionally).

Emotional pain and accidents happen. Do you trust her judgment and ability to vet the people she's considering playing with? Do you recognize that while people can get hurt physically and emotionally, such injuries are usually learning experiences and they can often be minimized if we do our best to learn about who we're considering playing with, how to play as safely as possible, etc.?

We'll never find a female domme so I can actually try to have some fun.

Have you looked beyond the two parties you've gone to? BDSM personals sites like CollarMe, social networking sites like FetLife and your local community & munches might be a good start for finding a domme, dominant or switch couple, service top, or whatever else you might be looking for.

Be patient, though. Just like you're getting to know people at parties, they're getting to know you. The more you socialize and let people know what you're looking for, the better your chances of actually finding it.

 

[Curious_Red]

Did you talk about rules beforehand? Speak up when you were uncomfortable?

We really went over that stuff before the first party. I didn't think we needed a refresher. Apparently, there were a few points we weren't on the same page (accident). It was what I viewed as something sexual versus what she did. There was fire play, then knife play, then they went to the cross. At some point, He got a super big vibrator out (too big for insertion). I gave the thumbs up because I thought he was going to just tease her. They left the cross and went to a bench, and I thought it was all still part of the flogging/spanking. There was also a very nice lady getting eaten out right next to me so I was viewing both back and forth. After a minute I realized He must be doing something with her vaginal area, but it was too big for insertion. I got a little uncomfortable, but decided to get over it even though I viewed that as sexual. What I didn't see and I don't know where it came from was the dildo attachment. He was doing everything to make her go but she wasn't allowed to. I had no clue and she knew better. I didn't know until they were done and she brought it over and I saw the dildo. She immediately knew by the look on my face that it was bad. The 50 minute ride home was not pleasant. Because of lots of one-sided fun in the past, one of the agreed upon rules was neither of us would sit and watch the other doing anything of a sexual nature and be left out. I don't view the flogging, fire, and knife play as sexual. Yes, it is erotic, but not sexual. Maybe I should have spoke up immediately, but it didn't go where I thought it would. We already agreed that if we play again, the vibrator stays in the box. She didn't view the vibrator as sexual at all because it wasn't flesh and felt the same way at first about the dildo until she thought about it. We're on the same page on that aspect now. It is a very big boundary for me because of the past, so I will have to get over this and it is not being easy.

In my experience, nothing can be done about what happened in the past, but it can help to try to understand and talk about it, and be proactive about the future. Perhaps this is a prime opportunity for you two to reevaluate your boundaries, create more defined agreements and learn about each other.

We have done that some, but I feel there needs to be more. There will be another massive, detailed, and distinct conversation if we go again. I'm anal (ha ha) about stuff, so it'll be overly detailed.

Is there anything you can do to avoid such things? For instance, would it help to go to parties separately or kind of do your own things if you're there together?

No, another cardinal rule was one is always present with the other. She won't go without me anyway, she wouldn't feel truly safe (she won't even go to a concert without me). I don't think that would help. She says she's dying to see me with another woman or man with no limits, so she has no issues about me. The big rule is knowledge of the act/s and being there though, that is about her only hard limit that can't be broke (and I would never). We pretty much do our own things while there, the other is watching. Unfortunately, there are no femal dommes there for me to start. She wants me to get flogged badly. I am willing to try stuff, it is just a matter of opportunity.

Emotional pain and accidents happen. Do you trust her judgment and ability to vet the people she's considering playing with? Do you recognize that while people can get hurt physically and emotionally, such injuries are usually learning experiences and they can often be minimized if we do our best to learn about who we're considering playing with, how to play as safely as possible, etc.?

I trusted her last Saturday and she just got caught up in the moment and didn't think. She feels incredibly bad about it and realizes it now. That's her to a "T". She's very guilty of "not thinking" about things all the time. Usually it is nothing sexual though, so this is new. She really has no inhibitions. If I said "go" she's have let that dom have sex with her right there in front of everybody. I take far longer to trust somebody. Because of where we are at, it is a safe environment so if a person is comfortable, it is a safe place. I recognize what you were saying, but that kind of emotional pain is hard for me to get over, it just takes time. All you say is correct though. I'm just going to have to get over it, but it will be in time.

Have you looked beyond the two parties you've gone to? BDSM personals sites like CollarMe, social networking sites like FetLife and your local community & munches might be a good start for finding a domme, dominant or switch couple, service top, or whatever else you might be looking for.

The actual site she joined was CollerMe, that is how we found the party. They are in Muncie, and you have to pay money to join the group. That helps weed out the flybynights. You have to RSVP a week in advance. Some parties are free, some cost money. The doors to the building are locked at 8pm when it starts. The same two people run the thing. We honestly don't have time to go out exploring. We have essentially one Saturday a month to go out (three kids and an overused sitter as it is) and got lucky with the party. I felt safe (which has to happen for us to go anywhere) so we went to the one in Muncie, about 45 minutes away. That is the closest place. The other munch I've found is about 2+ hours away and the party ends up a private residence. I felt safer at the group party.

Be patient, though. Just like you're getting to know people at parties, they're getting to know you. The more you socialize and let people know what you're looking for, the better your chances of actually finding it.

That is good advice! My personal problem is that I'm slow to get in the pool while she just jumps right in. (Silly analogy, sorry). Plus, I'm just not as into it as her. Until something jumps out at me, I'm going for her pleasure, plain and simple. I'm fine with her play until it crosses over to sexual (which I know is weird because by definition it is all sexual). She could do about anything where I'm so OCD, anal, idiosynchratic or whatever adjective that things have to be just a certain way for me to do something. My brain is a very weird place....lol....

Thanks for the words! I've read much of what you say on these boards and have found you to be awesome so I appreciate you took the time to comment.

 

[Harmony_1985]

I fear failure.

I fear that when it comes to flogging/whipping/caning etc I won't be able to handle as much as Sir wants me to.

I fear getting things wrong.

I fear disappointing Him.

I just read this back and realised it sounds REALLY whiney lol.

 

[ecstaticsub]

I just read this back and realised it sounds REALLY whiney lol.

I don't think it sounds whiney at all. I have those same fears even after all this time. (those and how is my ass going to recover from taking that monster cock? lol)