Edge Play And Endorphins.

[cymbidia]

I mean this warning urgently and seriously.

Listen to me, all you newbies:

Do not invite people that are new to you into your home, or go into thiers, and scene with them BEFORE you've talked face-to-face a number of times and you are sure you will be safe.

I know it'll be tempting.

I know you need to feel it, what you've just been reading about and talking about here.

I know you're aching and needy.

The sad truth is that there are far more people out there who are pretending to be experienced than people who will admit they're as new as you.

There are many people out there who may hurt you badly through clumsiness. They may hurt you because they don't know enough not to; the equipment and toys and stuff is new to them and they might not know, really know, how to use it - but claim they do. They might not really be sure what your limits are, and if you let yourself get bound and gagged and they're not watching for hand signals, you could be in big trouble. (DO NOT let yourself be bound *and* gagged with someone new to you. Period.)

In my exoerience, there are a LOT of people out there who *want* to have a good time with you and *want* to meet your needs and *want* to be a good Dom/me to you -but they simply don't have the knowledge base to do so.

If they admit that, like you, they're new to it - then they seem more trustworthy than those who shade the truth to be seen as more experienced.

And sorry, but online Domming experience doesn't count in the real world, either. It's like playing the drums online doesn't make you a real drummer or painting onlione doesn't prepare you for a brush in your hand. One can get some of the theory online but that's it. One has to get out there and do it with another person for it to count as real life experience.

This is ALL about trust.

Without trust, it's all just kinky fucking. (Not that there's anything at all wrong with kinky fucking, as i've said over and over. Kinky fucking is just fine if that's what you're wanting!)


Do not invite strage people into your home and let them tie you up and gag you. Even those words have to ring some alarm bells, right?

It's not safe.
Not for you.
Not for your Dominant.
Take your time and do all the talking first.
It'll pay off when you finally get to the skin-to-skin stuff.
Honest.

 

[willfulbrat]

Broken-halo, I'm sorry that that happened to you. We need to share these stories to warn others that there is real danger out there.

Cymbidia is right, there is no substitute for getting to know people very well, and not just online, before having them into your home. I think that we all know this in our heads, but our hearts tempt us into taking chances. Don't do it!

It may not seem fair to the new Doms/Dommes here, but I never play with anyone I haven't seen play before. Playing in public is much safer than in private. Experienced dungeon monitors keep an eye on the scenes and will intervene if they see anything happening that is unsafe. Also, playing in a club gives you a chance to check on the reputation of the person you're considering playing with.

In a club, inexperienced Dominants can meet more experienced people to observe and question. It is extremely reassuring to have a Mentor present the first few times you top. Also, it is easier to find a play partner once you are established as a safe and reputable person.

 

[Quint]

From the point where I opened this thread, I have gone through several emotions:
1.) Heehee, I know what they're talking about. I like edgy edge play. La la la la.
2.) Hmm, they know what they're talking about. I've heard of sub space but I've never been there. Wish I could. It sounds fun.
3.) Whoa. This is kinda scary. Almost every day I feel grateful that I'm not bipolar...this is like voluntary manic depression. But I still kinda want it...

There was an afterthought of "damn I'm lucky I have my hunny so I don't do something stupid like inviting potentially harmful people into my house and letting them fuck me over in a not-good way," but it isn't really relevant.

I read one excellent article on sensuous caning, which is supposed to be a guaranteed-trip into sub space, but a.) lacking a nice quality cane, and b.) lacking time to get hunny more than competent in wielding one. We do breath control, and he has NEVER asphyxiated me longer than I can take. My trust in him is absolute, and if there is a man who can bliss me out, it would have to be him. But it hasn't happened. I think our simultaneous fear of going too far has held us back. I'm unsure if I'm very happy or rather disappointed in this. I really don't want to be an endorphin junkie...but at the same time, kinda I want to.

 

[broken_halo]

 

[willfulbrat]

I did misunderstand, broken_halo. I didn't think about it until after I'd posted that I may have misinterpreted the term "going down" to mean going bad as opposed to happening. I'm glad it you didn't have one of the bad experiences like some of the ones I've heard of.

 

[iamaddog]

just for asking....

Endorphins are the body's natural pain killer,and they can definately make you feel high. Some people call this floating or flying. Personally, I can gte that kind of state from a prolonged flogging or spanking. It reachs a point where I really don't feel the whacks at all, I am just in a zone. To me it feels sort of like floating in warm water.
Different people will have different responses, with varying length and intensity. My former submissive would stay in that state for hours. She would be like someone who was stoned out of her mind. Of course, someone in that condition is very vulnerable, and that must be kept in mind...
-----------------------------------

okay...probably someone is gonna get mad at me again...
but here goes...
do these so-called endorhins 'spose to kick in all the time??? or are there people out here that it don't work???
I mean like...I'm doing this clothespin exercises for Mistress Ann...and it's quite serverly painful sometimes...
just can't seem to get through the hour of the exercise lesson...
sometimes..I get into real tears...so where are these endorphins?
don't they kick-in on some stuff or what is..the real poop here on this stuff????
I'm trying....very hard....to get past the pain in my head....
but there are times it just is not......possible.
hell,..it'd be great if I could get that high you are all talking about.
can/would/will someone///help me on this pretty please?


thank you very much.

mad dog in iowa


drive careful out there...!!

 

[cymbidia]

Re: just for asking....

do these so-called endorhins 'spose to kick in all the time??? or are there people out here that it don't work???
I mean like...I'm doing this clothespin exercises for Mistress Ann...and it's quite serverly painful sometimes...
just can't seem to get through the hour of the exercise lesson...
sometimes..I get into real tears...so where are these endorphins?
don't they kick-in on some stuff or what is..the real poop here on this stuff????

maddog, from someone who's been called a pain slut by more than one Dominant, from someone who identifies as a masosub, let me tell you something about pain...

You don't "get past" it.
You don't just grimace and bear it.
You don't suffer through it waiting for the good part beyond.

Either you "get" the good part of pain and what it does to your body/mind/emotions...or you don't. There's no middle ground here. No one can teach you how to get to that endorphine high, either. You get there or you don't. Period.

Fighting the pain IS NOT the way to pleasure in BDSM pain play. You can't fight it. You have to be able to accept it, immerse yourself in it, love and want and need and laugh with it while you're french kissing it. THEN you get the incredible rewards it brings.

I totally believe that we're wired to want and need the extra intensity that others percieve as pain and we percieve as pain/pleasure or we are not wired that way.

It's not something you can learn.

You can learn to bear the pain like you can learn to bear poverty or injustice or the unkindness of strangers cuz your face is lopsided or something else that's inherently unpleasant. You can. People learn to bear unpleasantries all the time.

But why should you learn to bear pain when you don't have to? Why should you take that burden onto yourself when you don't get the sweet rush of pleasure, the overwhelming intoxification of that endophin high, as a reward?

If you're not wired for a sexual appreciation of pain, what the HELL are you doing trying to bear it?

Are you doing it cuz you need it?
Cuz you want it?
Cuz you love it?
Cuz if you don't have, you feel achy and irritable?
Cuz your orgasms are never EVER as good as when you've dipped into the pool of intense pain and flown through it to the other side?

No?

Then why?

Are you doing it cuz your Domme wants you to do it? Have you told her that you fear and hate pain? Have you told her you want to serve, only, to be used, but gently, that you wish to lick her boots clean, but not be kicked in the nuts by them?

You keep coming here with the same questions, maddog. You keep asking us, "why doesn't this feel good?" and only the "this" changes.

I keep telling you: talk to your Domme about it. Do you? Have you talked to her openly and honestly? Have you given her the truth she deserves, the truth you owe her, the truth you keep spilling over onto us?

We can't help you.
You are the only one who can help yourself.

We can give you tools and language and some confidence but you have to make the changes, say the words, become the person you need to become.

Pain play isn't for everyone.

It may not be for you.

If you force yourself into it from a place of fear and desperation then you'll never reach the ultimate and incredible pleasure that many of us find in such extremes of touch because it isn't what you need and crave.


I think you'll probably see this post as me "getting mad at you again" but it's only because you keep singing the same song here, to us, and i keep echoing the same refrain back to you. I'm not mad but i am, i confess, getting a bit exasperated.

 

[iamaddog]

sorry

maddog, from someone who's been called a pain slut by more than one Dominant, from someone who identifies as a masosub, let me tell you something about pain...

You don't "get past" it.

You don't just grimace and bear it.

You don't suffer through it wiating for the good part beyond.

Either you "get" the good part of pain and what it does to your body/mind/emotions or you don't.

I totally believe that we're wired to want and need the extra intensity that others percieve as pain and we percieve as pain/pleasure or we are not wired that way.

It's not something you can learn.

You can learn to bear the pain like you can learn to bear poverty or injustice or the unkindness of strangers cuz your face is lopsided or something else that's inherently unpleasant. You can. People learn to bear unpleasantries all the time.

But why should you learn to bear pain when you don't have to? Why should you take that burden onto yourself when you don't get the sweet rush of pleasure, the overwhelming intoxification of that endophin high, as a reward?

If you're not wired for a sexual appreciation of pain, what the HELL are you doing trying to bear it?

Are you doing it cuz you need it?
Cuz you want it?
Cuz you love it?
Cuz if you don't have, you feel achy and irritable?
Cuz your orgasms are never EVER as good as when you've dipped into the pool of intense pain and flown through it to the other side?

No?

Then why?

Are you doing it cuz your Domme wants you to do it? Have you told her that you fear and hate pain? Have you told her you want to serve, only, to be used, but gently, that you wish to lick her boots clean, but not be kicked in the nuts by them?

You keep coming here with the same questions, maddog. You keep asking us, "why doesn't this feel good?" and only the "this" changes.

I keep telling you: talk to your Domme about it. Do you? Have you talked to her openly and hoestly? Have you given her the truth she deserves, the truth you owe her, the truth you keep spilling over onto us?

We can't help you.
You are the only one who can help yourself.

We can give you tools and language and some confidence buit you have tomake the changes, say the words, become the person you need to become.

Pain play isn't for everyone.

It may not be for you.




You'll see this as me "getting mad at you again" but it's only because you keep singing the same song here, to us, and i keep echoing the same refrain back to you. I'm not mad but i am, i confess, getting a bit exasperated.

======================
it ain't like I do anything deliberately. hell,..just asking questions.
figured, since you all talk about this stuff it woulkdn't cost anyone anything to give me some insight into your world....
I'm sorry I asked. didn't know it was a problem.
Mistress Ann...has been told..over and over....I ain't fond of pain at any level. but yet....if it is an accepted part of this world...\
who am I to say it isn't right when I can't even ask a question without someone getting p.o.'ed---how would it be if a submissive said that he wouldn't do this or that just coz...
that ain't what I call proper either....you can't top from the bottom. ----but....anyway...
maybe then it isn't for me to be here then, if it is such a burden to ask questions. I didn't relaize it was so hard.
this is always been my problem all my life....
I go around asking questions anywhere about this or that fromj people I thought would answer directly and not feel bad about
being able to impart their wisdom and I get yelled at for it.
and yet....if I don't ask...I'm an idiot coz I didn't...
damn I do...damn I don't..didn't know that was supposed-to-be the adult world I was told about...
where "I" come from...not just by the state...but my family ways...
we are told it is not a big deal to help someone out. it is better than to have someone make mistakes coz they didn't ask.
now I'm told if I ask I'm wrong there also????
I give up....I quit.....cease and desist.....stop---end it!!!

I will not bother you again folks. I am truly sorry I ain't one of you.
I wish I knew it all so I could go through life with a smile instead of this stupid look on my face....
I'm just an honest down-to-earth country boy asking questions about things I know nothing of....
Mistress says She enjoys the occassional whip or two...
I didn't see any harm in asking about those endorphin things.
so maybe "I" ain't got it then....enough said...
"I" ain;t one of you....sue me...please!!
I am so outta here.....
someone take my name off this forum please.....
I don't stay where I ain't wanted.....wasn't raised that way!!

goodbye to all of you..nice while it lasted....
maddog in iowa....

 

[broken_halo]

Re: iamaddog

 

[iamaddog]

broken halo

yes...that is EXACTLY.....what I wished to know...
thank you--thank you--thank you----thank you--


you are most kind to tell me this....
it is very very very appreciated......

mad dog in iowa

 

[broken_halo]

Re: broken halo

yes...that is EXACTLY.....what I wished to know...
thank you--thank you--thank you----thank you--


you are most kind to tell me this....
it is very very very appreciated......

mad dog in iowa

~~~~~

 

[RisiaSkye]

maddog--I think you're jumping to conclusions about what cymbidia was trying to say to you. From where I sit, her comments are based in concern--concern for you and your safety. If you are deeply immersed in pain experiences at your Domme's direction--you are doing as commanded, and the experience leaves you drained, hurting, and unhappy--then something about it isn't working for you.

If your Domme cares for you, if it isn't working for you, it won't be satisfying for her either. But, because you aren't yet face-to-face, she has nothing to go on but what you tell her. So, out of concern for you (and knowing that you're unsure of things like protocol and what's typical of people's experiences), cym suggested that you discuss this with your Domme, whom one would expect to revise her training based on your emotional and physical responses.

Yes, of course, people do things to please their Dominants--they push their boundaries, take more than they think they can, etc. However, if you're feeling *real* pain--of the "Oh, God, no...not that again" variety, then something's not right, and you may be in actual physical danger. People are hard-wired differently. Perhaps you need a different kind of stimulus, or perhaps you don't respond to pain, but you do enjoy submission and discipline. That has nothing to do with whether or not you're "one of us," it's about figuring out your own limits, needs, and desires. There is no judgement implied, just a note of concern for you, and a hint of frustration that you seem to confuse honest communication with "topping from below."

You've said on many occasions that you're new to this, you're scared, you're trying to learn. So, when someone attempts to help you, if they don't phrase it in a way you understand or appreciate, it might be more helpful to ask for clarification rather than leap to the assumption that you're being denigrated or pushed aside. In my experience, very few people here would do anything like that, and certainly not cymbidia--a woman who shows the utmost concern for everyone here.

I'm glad that broken_halo's words were more clear and helpful to you. I would hope that you continue to participate, asking the questions you have, and working toward finding the answers. No one here is trying to harm, judge, or get rid of you. Please, let the guard down a little bit; I promise you, all are welcome here.

Be well,
RS

 

[iamaddog]

RisiaSkye

I will take your word on it...

for the moment, I am quite 'put-off' so it may be a bit before I say much anymore. it hurts when I ask questions and then I'm told I'm an asshole for doing it? excuse me. didn't know some folks were born knowing everything in the world. sorry I wasn't one of 'em.

for YOU alone....I'll wait awhile ....but I as yet...am seldom ever wrong,...when my gut tells me the time is up ....it usually is right.

I may be dumb on some things...but I know a 2 faced person when I meet one....I know when I'm not welcome coz I ain't part of their high-school click....I know when I'm being shuck and jived.

and I damn well know when I ain't goddamn wanted....

for YOU alone....I'll bide my time.....but hold my tongue. trust has been broken now.

mad dog

 

[RisiaSkye]

maddog:
I've had my feelings hurt here at Lit, too. And I know it's very tempting to leave, to just chuck the whole thing. I'm glad to hear, though, that you're going to allow yourself a cooling-off period before doing anything like that. Given the hurt and upset that radiates from your posts, that's all I could hope for, and I appreciate that you're willing to give it that chance based on little more than my say-so. That's a sizable leap of faith, and I appreciate the spirit in which it's undertaken.

Here's what I've learned from this:
Ultimately, we aren't anything more than our words here. So, if those words are misunderstood, or they hurt someone, then there's little chance of getting past that--of getting to know the person behind the words, on either side, unless both people actively seek to resolve their differences or miscommunication.
For every person, however, whose words don't make sense to us, for whatever reason, there's another one whose words *do* speak to us. Even in this thread, where cymbidia and maddog had such a miscommunication that it caused hurt and upset, maddog found the answer he needed; it just took another person phrasing the same message in a new way for the idea to get through.

Our reluctant poster-girl cymbidia has said, time and time again (on the Mother thread and ever since), that she doesn't intend to be everyone's expert nor to pass herself off as all-knowing. On the other hand, as someone with a lot of experience, and a more relaxed schedule than many of us, she fields more of the questions than anyone else. This is a service of tremendous value to many. However, this incident just goes to prove exactly what she's always said--her style of answer isn't for everyone. That's why *more* people, not *less* need to participate--to get a variety of questions, experiences, and answers out there, to reach more people in helpful ways. Everyone has a place here, everyone, that is, that continues to want one.

 

[pierced_boy]

Calmness

.

 

[sweetdesire4you]

Hello Again- Etc..

Hello Once again to everyone:

I've been sitting here now ..must be for the past hour or so, trying to get caught up on the skuttle butt of everyone for the past few days...phewwww.. is good "breath" thing to say here...

Cym I personally wanted to thank you for posting about the safe play, and so forth. It's the most important thing I think that any Dom/sub play can have. Now as to broken_halo....I'm glad to see that your doing this very safely finally. Yes, you were very very lucky...I hope and pray you really realize just how lucky you were. I know of the excitement of the unknown that you're speaking of....but being safe is always the first priory.

Well that was short and sweet...pheww once again..(*giggle)

Now Cym;
I guess Im going to sorta direct this question alittle..although I know I probably shouldn't...just seem to value your concerns..(yes it shows alot)

Although I've only been submissive for a short time..well actually a long time, just never accepted it for a few years there..(lol.)...tried the "nilla" for awhile. wow what a rude awakening that was...I believe as you put it on one of your posts "kinky fuck".... good description...anywho...

I've never experienced breath play...and although the trust is there ...to be quite honest...scares the hell out of me..and somehow I've also managed to stay far away from it..I guess my question is...as being part of the r/t play...does this really have to ever come into play?

I know the rules, so forth and so on...etc...however there has been discussion on this particular play... and I am being respected in this realm...however.....could this be only one area for me in which I am stopping my so far "no limits"...which I have been told I have none so far...I kinda pride myself on this...I find I do have limits...although ....the opionions are different here...(giggle)

I don't have any per say piercings...but I am up for the challenge on a few things...

I hope this isn't too confusing.. however I do tend to go on tangents without making sense.. ..hmm..guess that's what writing is for ...

I also wanted to thank everyone for all the posts...they were wonderful to read...You guys are all very understanding here, and warm towards each other...even when feelings get hurt. It's nice to see all the differences in here..yet everyone seems to get along..Thank you to all...

sweetdesires

 

[iamaddog]

RisiaSkye------pierced_boy

thank You both so VERY much. I am very appreciative of your concern. you both showed me respect. I like that. it is something that I get little of. you both seem genuinely concerned. that is a nice feeling. and I will,,...for you two,...stay around a little longer. and of course for broken halo also. the 3 people I feel I can trust here.

please take care out there...

mad dog

 

[broken_halo]

Re: RisiaSkye------pierced_boy

thank You both so VERY much. I am very appreciative of your concern. you both showed me respect. I like that. it is something that I get little of. you both seem genuinely concerned. that is a nice feeling. and I will,,...for you two,...stay around a little longer. and of course for broken halo also. the 3 people I feel I can trust here.

please take care out there...

mad dog

~~~~~~~

 

[iamaddog]

broken_halo

by the way...
I got a question just for YOU....since you seemed to know what was going on....

bear with me here please....\

I do these clothespin lessons for Mistress...every morning..7 days a week...AND I do a self-flogging lesson as well...at the same time each day...
ok,,here it comes...hang in there with me..
after the self flogging..which is about 550 lashes every day...
I get a warm tingling sensation directly after. like someone put deep heating rub on my back,..and it goes down into the muscles and it feels so toasty warm and relaxing. ...I wasn't going to mention this...since there are ladies here,..and it is a public forum..but it gives me a little cheap thrill with this so I tend to feel frisky after it is all said and done also....you following me here????

here's the question......
Q: are any of those sensations related to that endorphins thing??

it is what I am directly trying to understand.

thanks....I do appreciate it.

mad dog in iowa
drive careful out there.

 

[broken_halo]

Re: broken_halo

by the way...
I got a question just for YOU....since you seemed to know what was going on....

bear with me here please....\

I do these clothespin lessons for Mistress...every morning..7 days a week...AND I do a self-flogging lesson as well...at the same time each day...
ok,,here it comes...hang in there with me..
after the self flogging..which is about 550 lashes every day...
I get a warm tingling sensation directly after. like someone put deep heating rub on my back,..and it goes down into the muscles and it feels so toasty warm and relaxing. ...I wasn't going to mention this...since there are ladies here,..and it is a public forum..but it gives me a little cheap thrill with this so I tend to feel frisky after it is all said and done also....you following me here????

here's the question......
Q: are any of those sensations related to that endorphins thing??

it is what I am directly trying to understand.

thanks....I do appreciate it.

mad dog in iowa
drive careful out there.

 

[iamaddog]

try this again--broken_halo

I will give it a shot though. First of all, does it feel like you cant get enough of that flogging? Wishing your Mistress was doing it for you all the time? Feeling yourself wanting Her more? Feeling like your in another world? In subspace? That nothing else matters but the wonderful sensations and arousal you are getting from this morning exercise? Maybe your looking for a harsher flogging, more intense? Wanting your Mistress to take you a little further each time? To me, what you have described, and if you answer yes to any of these questions, you are getting your endorphines going.
The more intense the exercise, or the scene, it will make you think you cant get enough of it. When you feel you cant get enough of it and find yourself needing more, and wanting to go further, that is the ultimate high.

Of course this is only my opinion.

---------------------------
---------------------------
no,..I ain't wanting more persay. I ain't in no other world 'cept this one. what is subspace???? never heard of it. I ain't looking on purpose for anything to be harder or more intense.
I don't ever need or want......more. none of that makes sense to me. sorry. but what I do feel,...is that warm tingly feeling in my back muscles..like deep heating rub soaking into my back. my back feels like there is a hotpad sitting on it and the muscles start to feel warm to the touch. I as yet have not ever "asked for or wanted " for more. I don't enjoy getting beat by myself or anyone else. but these feelings in my back muscles are weird to me. I'd swear someone plugged in a heating pad and put it on my back when I get done with the 550 lashes.....

maybe I ain't making sense to you....maybe this is my fault...

ah well...15 minutes before work..gotta fly...

see ya....

mad dog in iowa

 

[broken_halo]

RE:subspace

 

[pierced_boy]

Endorphins

.

 

[willfulbrat]

Re: Endorphins

The feeling was euphoria, floating sensations, confusion, warmth and safety, tremors & mild shaking of hands, no fear, bliss ,painlessness (does that make sense), lightness of being (nothing mattered, everything was alright even though it was not). I could easily have fallen asleep at that time. Just curled up on the road and gone. It wasn't an imperitive but it was attractive.

Harry

That's the best description of subspace I've ever read, Harry.

Iamadog, your posts break my heart. I can't help but think that you are with the wrong Mistress., or that you need to tell her abut your feelings. A hard flogging is absolute heaven to me. I crave it, beg for it, and am disappointed when it's over. But it leaves me feeling happy and peaceful for hours. If you're not getting these feelings, what you're going through is pumishment.

Is your relationship with her worth going through that? It doesn't sound very satisfying to me.

 

[willfulbrat]

I just have to add one more thing: Sometimes we do accept pain just to please our Dominants, and that's okay, as long as the relationship is positive in other ways and doesn't leave you feeling abused and worthless. *hugs*