Editor Pet Peeves

[HawaiiBill]

A modest suggestion

Phildo has a point there. Consider that Literotica has so many submissions that the good ones deserve to be shown without a surrounding avalance of material that hasn't been looked at with an editorial eye before posting. Or is it the case that all submissions do have at least brief scrutiny and we just don't know it.

What if the stories in the "New" section were open to editing by any registered editor that wanted to spruce them up a bit? Maybe that would be limited to grammar, paragraphing, spelling and such. Structure should remain dependent on writer concurence, I think.

Bottom line: those of us working to keep literotica's standards high could help in that way.

Anything here?

 

[snooper]

Tmesis

I really dislike reading the works of writers who use tmesis. It is, I grant, usually only in direct speech, but I have never met anyone who actually talks like that. Absobloodylutely never!

 

[bridgeburner]

Snooper,

What is tmesis?


-B

 

[HawaiiBill]

Tmesis is an opportunity . . .

. . . to use Google.com and learn something.

 

[A7inchPhildo]

Snooper,

What is tmesis?


-B

tmesis - n [LL, fr. Gk tme`sis act of cutting, fr. temnein to cut--more at TOME] (1550) : separation of parts of a compound word by the intervention of one or more words. ( as what place soever for whatsoever place)

Some are proper and others are just a jumble of crap.

Absobloodylutely

 

[bridgeburner]

Thanks, Phildo. I assumed it was some kind of acronym rather than a real word. I had no idea there was an actual term for such things. Cool!

-B

 

[fifty5]

Re: Best of intentions . . .

Fifty5, I didn't mean to imply any diabolical problems...sorry.

And I didn't mean to suggest any either - sorry if my previous response wasn't clear.

As simply as I can:

1. Problems do happen.

2. It's polite to let one's partner (editor or writer) know that the problem has occurred, rather than just going silent.

Quite apart from common courtesy, a quick msg about the problem provides a chance to help, make allowances, part friends, or whatever - which makes it possible to start over when the problem is solved, or just comes to an end.

f5

 

[Enamored]

Author's point of view

Your complaints are, as far as I can tell, completely valid.

From an author's point of view, I have only recently signed in to Literotia, and requested a review from an editor.

I actually had submitted a story that had been posted on another website, and was a little surprised that it was rejected here. I found what I thought were the one or two relatively minor errors, but before resubmitting it, wanted to have a volunteer editor review it to make sure that I hadn't completely missed something. (I have written for years, but almost all of it as technical writing, only in the last year or two have I attempted erotic stories.)

After going through the list of authors, I chose one that I thought would fit with the theme of the story, sent off a request, and probably an hour or two later got a positive response - much to my surprise. I thought it would be much longer than that.

In any event, I sent the story off a couple of days ago. I didn't expect an editorial review in two days, but I would have appreciated a response indicating that the editor had received the story and would work on it.

Certainly not required, but I am sure of interest to authors, would also be an estimated return date - whether it is weeks, months or years, it would be nice to know.

Just my two cents.

 

[SexySoBeChick]

Dear Enamored,

I understand your point of view and agree with you completely. Personally, when I receive a story, I let the writer know that I received it and when I expect to return it to them. I encourage all editors to this. I think it's the polite thing to do.

I see a number of writers on this thread are complaining about delinquent editors. You may not know this, but writers have a recourse. You can inform the Literotica staff and they will email the editor. If the editor does not respond, the Literotica staff is supposed to remove the editor from the list.

I understand that still leaves you without an editor. All I can say is to keep trying. I'm sure there are plenty of volunteer editors out there who are responsible and eager to help.

Best of luck,
SexySoBeChick

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Re: A modest suggestion

Phildo has a point there. Consider that Literotica has so many submissions that the good ones deserve to be shown without a surrounding avalance of material that hasn't been looked at with an editorial eye before posting. Or is it the case that all submissions do have at least brief scrutiny and we just don't know it.

What if the stories in the "New" section were open to editing by any registered editor that wanted to spruce them up a bit? Maybe that would be limited to grammar, paragraphing, spelling and such. Structure should remain dependent on writer concurence, I think.

Bottom line: those of us working to keep literotica's standards high could help in that way.

Anything here?

As an author I can tell you I don't want anyone "sprucing up" my work, no matter what their qualifications unless I ask them. That isn't to say I think my work above reproach, far from it, but what you consider sprucing up I might consider mangling.

In particular I use an unpopular POV and changing it, while it might seem most appropriate to you would have the effect of changing my style to yours. People who request editors work with that editor, they develop a chemistry and a trust. Having anyone who felt like it making changes to my work while it was in the New submissions area, no matter how cosemetic, without my knowing them would leave me feeling violated.

-Colly

 

[HawaiiBill]

The site's overall quality is important

Colly,

Please read what I wrote: "Maybe that would be limited to grammar, paragraphing, spelling and such. Structure should remain dependent on writer concurence, I think."

If you have spent much time in the New Stories section surely you have seen those that are damaged by spelling, grammar and other clear errors in plain English.

If you think each writer's choices are more important than the overall quality of work in Literotica, then we part company. There are a lot of stories on the boards that the site could do without and, in my view, 99 percent of those are simply difficult to read. Point of view isn't at issue in this, readability and clarity is.

Having said that, we do agree that basic story development, subject treatment and characterization are not issues for arbitrary change without request from and agreement with the author that they improve the work.

I volunteered to edit because so many stories need a gentle touch by one hand while the other is on a dictionary. Simple as that.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Bill,

Please don't think I don't appreciate what you guys do, if you ever see my posts on the feedback forum you will know I unabashedly reccomend you to anyone who is having problems, be they with grammar, style or structure.

My point was editing should be something you ask for, not something you submit to. There are no hard and fast rules of editing, nothing you can hang your hat on. What you as an editor consider a minor change I might consider something entierly different.

I have only had one piece edited for me. The editor I got was extremely nice, patient and treated me with kid gloves. The adjustments made were always minor and even then I was asked to look at them before they were made. In a case where the editor didn't like a word they didn't even suggest a possible alternative, but instead pointed out why they thought it neded changing and asked me to reword it. I came to trust them, believe in them and before it was over I felt that my work was completely safe in their hands.

That kind of raport comes only with trust and getting to know your editor. Unless I misunderstand, what you are suggesting is the grammar police. Any editor who finds my spelling, grammar etc., in need of work can just go in and make changes. Isn't that a tad Orwellian?

As a simple for instance, I am a woman, write my stories for women, and use only women as major characters. Unless I am well aquainted with a man, have come to trust him and rely on his judgement and firmly believe that he dosen't have a heavy hand, I would be uncomfortable in the extreme with a man editing my work. You may be the heart and soul of tact, as judicious and concientious as the one editor I have had, but you might be heavy handed and arrogant too. I just don't know.

Can you really suggest that as a condition of having my work posted I must submit to whatever personage decides my work needs sprucing up? I am not even very good and I couldn't agree to that. People with some talent and proven ability probably wouldn't either. Can you imagine the rows when Editor A makes some adjustments to Author B's work and then it turn out author B is far better trained and experienced than editor A? Who is going to referee those?

I see pleanty of stories I feel are terrible. I am sure many who read mine backclick in disgust. But thats the perogative of the reader. I feel placing our works in the hands of strangers would not stop the flow of below average works and would drive many of the more accomplished authors away.

Perhaps I am wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.

-Colly

 

[HawaiiBill]

Editing is the publisher's perogative

Colly,

Literotica has publishers. It is purely up to them regarding what editing is desired. They have the right to accept work as it is submitted, edit it and use it or turn it down. It's their show. Not mine. Not yours. It sounds to me that you should inquire with the Literotica owners and ask their policy.

My guess is they wouldn't have volunteer editors unless they felt it necessary. That isn't to say editing is necessary for every writer but, if not, that would be an extremely rare publication. You have an extreme view of editing. My suggestion is that you consider starting your own web site if you insist on being published without any editorial help. Most publishers feel their first responsibility is to their readers, to provide a standard of quality that is consistent throughout the publication.

I've been a professional editor -- not here but on hardcopy publications -- much of my adult life. No editor worthy of the job seeks to change the writer's 'voice.' That's the valuable part of most writing. The editor's job is to help the reader hear that voice in a manner that aids understanding. That's all.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I shan't argue, I know next to nothing abour publishing, editing or writing for that matter.

-Colly

 

[A7inchPhildo]

Wow!

And all phildo was meekly trying to inject.

I have a respect for the editors and the good that is being done. I would like all the stories to have to pass a certain level of editing before they can be posted. At least the stamp of approval from one editor.

Here was the deal, I had been in a conversation with a popular author on the board.
The ability to write a good story is an understatement, from me and my opinion of this person.
I am asked to read a certain story that is posted and Edit/review it.
I am more than slightly disappointed as it was a chop here, spelling there, people talking for the wrong characters.

I confront this talented person and let them know what I think.

The response I will not post but was to the respect I do not have time to correct it as I am busy posting more stories for a certain contest. I can make corrections later and resubmit.

That really Pisses me off! I do not get get PO.ed at much. There is a contest running at lit I am sure you are aware of that you see how many stories/ categories you can write... Blah, blah, blah.

I am sorry to report that many of those stories suck, Not all, Not most, Just a lot of them. The contest is fine the attitude of winning before the quality of the story is wrong. The reader suffers and if the reader starts to see too many crap stories they leave. "Yes there are other story sites, just like lit."

I want to make it clear my thought of every story should have to pass the stamp of at least one editor. Before being submitted only was for the sake of readability.

I am sorry this could have been my miss-wording editor may be too strong of a word.

A reader of stories person who only says yes it is complete and reads at an eigth grade level "stamp" ok you can submit. "Next"

It may be the public school thing but some postings are just not able to read case the spellling location and of all words ain't write.

Some guide such as that was all I was saying not restrict freedom of style.

Colly, your work is excellent in style. I can only imagine you would recieve little feedback, Not OMG change the story. Consider that from a person who is not into your category. I may have even picked up a thing or two for my stories I like.

BUSY - day got to go and get to the beach before it gets crowded, Yep 50 miles of beach fills up fast on a thursday you know.

 

[fifty5]

I suspect that this thread needs input from Laurel and/or Manu, but presumably they're too busy. Accordingly, my two pennorth...

The site belongs to L & M - they apply whatever criteria they want to, and the result is good.

Stories belong to their authors (L&M acknowledge that explicitly by their published copyright policy for the site).

I've only submitted one story - and that was accepted as written. Accordingly, beyond the site guide lines, I've no idea why some stories are rejected.

My next is currently being improved by one of the VE's (thanks).

So ...
1. L&M do vet submitted stories
2. Irrespective of whether their criteria are the same as mine would be (I do agree that some stories do have grotty speeling / punktuation!) the site's a good one.


If it works (and it does work well, even if not perfectly) I don't think it needs fixing!

f5

 

[Seattle Zack]

Re: Editing is the publisher's perogative

No editor worthy of the job seeks to change the writer's 'voice.' That's the valuable part of most writing. The editor's job is to help the reader hear that voice in a manner that aids understanding. That's all.

Great summary Bill -- unfortunately, I've encountered editors that try to do exactly the opposite. My experience is mainly in magazine articles, granted, but many like to rewrite the article from top to bottom as soon as they get it in their grubby little hands -- changing style, point of view, structure. As a result, every article in the mag comes out sounding like it was written by the same person.

Other editors (the good ones, obviously) use your philosophy and the result enhances the author's style and makes the article more effective.

My editing experience is mainly on the technical side -- translating geek into English for website "content," that annoying stuff that fits between the formatting commands and hyperlinks. Doesn't allow for much style or even, in many cases, substance.

Regarding Phil's comments, remember that this site is an amateur writer's site. A good 90% of the stories are crap, I agree, but writers developing their craft need to throw stuff against the wall and see what sticks. I've sold about a dozen erotic stories, and I still learn a lot from the feedback I get here at Lit.

The VE program is a great one for those that wish to take advantage of it. Many don't. Lots of stories are posted for no other reason than the writer's desire to see what it's like to allow others to view their creation.

My guess is, with hundreds of stories submitted per week, L&M check each one to see that it doesn't violate their basic rules of submissions (like underage stuff, something that could get them in trouble with the law) and then let the story sink or swim on its own merits.

I've found that the H (for high votes), E (for Editors choice) and W (Contest winner) deisgnations are good indicators of how well-written a story is.

I've also discovered writers through their forum posts -- those sig lines work. When I read a post that's well written and articulate, I'll often check out the writer's stories.

Just my thoughts, but I think you're being a little hard on a site that, for many, is a way to express their creativity and try something that they've always wanted to do. There are many pay sites out there that do buy erotic stories and have professional editors, and the standards there are obviously higher.

--Zack