Education issues

[Eilan]

At least when it comes to math, I think it might be the tests that are the problem.

I think it depends on the school, but, yeah, a lot of them are looking out for the bottom line, and that means money. $$

At the college where I worked, there are lots of math classes that students can test into, and the placement test that they take is determined by what math classes you took in high school. At the developmental level, there's a math review (which sounds like what you took), Introduction to Algebra, and Algebra. The difference between the two algebra classes is that Class #1 meets five days per week and covers an entire textbook, while Class #2 meets three days a week and covers only the second half of the textbook used Class #1.

I meant to edit my previous post to clarify this, but I was out the door soon after I made the post. The school that I taught at has, unfortunately IMO, no admissions standards, which means that they'll accept any semi-sentient being who applies, take their money for two semesters, and flunk them out. A lot of the people who end up in developmental classes need to be there because they've been out of school for 20+ years (there's a large nontraditional student population) and they need the extra help/review.

However, there's been an increase in students just out of high school who can't do college-level work. Some of them have learning disabilities, and we have services available to them that definitelt weren't available to my collegel classmates in the early 90's. Others decided to go to college even though they didn't take the right courses. If a student receives a scholarship from the university (as opposed to from an outside source), the money can't be used to pay for developmental classes. I've had a handful of scholarship students in developmental writing classes, and judging from their writing samples, they needed to be there.

FWIW, we do have an appeals process. If a student feels that he or she has been improperly placed in any developmental class, an appeal can be made to the department chair during the first couple of days of the term. I've made several referrals myself.

 

[EJFan]

i was intrigued by a report on the news the other night. apparently, the public schools in chicago have started teaching chinese to the students there. this is really a peripheral point, however. what really piqued my interest was that the parents made the initial suggestion and worked with the school board to meet this goal and implement the program. how fucking revolutionary is that?????

i don't know about other places but most areas i've lived in it seems that parents tend to do one of two things with the school board. they either go through the motions of being involved and stay complacent... or they bitch about something that doesn't amount to a hill of shit.

kudos to these parents for having a vision and working to realize it. MORE kudos to them for working on an issue that has actual implications... rather than some bullshit like teaching creationism or how much they can raise in candy bar sales versus joe corbi pizza.

 

[midwestyankee]

i was intrigued by a report on the news the other night. apparently, the public schools in chicago have started teaching chinese to the students there. this is really a peripheral point, however. what really piqued my interest was that the parents made the initial suggestion and worked with the school board to meet this goal and implement the program. how fucking revolutionary is that?????

i don't know about other places but most areas i've lived in it seems that parents tend to do one of two things with the school board. they either go through the motions of being involved and stay complacent... or they bitch about something that doesn't amount to a hill of shit.

kudos to these parents for having a vision and working to realize it. MORE kudos to them for working on an issue that has actual implications... rather than some bullshit like teaching creationism or how much they can raise in candy bar sales versus joe corbi pizza.

The city of Chicago schools, for all their faults, do involve parents reasonably well. Each school has a parents council that has input into administrative decisions in some areas and parents must come to school to pick up their children's report cards each quarter. As you'd expect, some councils are far more effective than others and some parents barely speak to the teachers when they pick up the report cards, but these aspects of the system are admirable. Still, given the demographics of the city and the general prominence of dangerous activities, we chose to live in the suburbs and have our children educated out here.

In my experience, every school that I have known has had a cadre of highly involved, well-motivated, and well-meaning parents who volunteer huge blocks of time to help out. Many of the parents are former teachers and many are very intelligent. Their help as teacher aides in the elementary schools is invaluable. By middle school much of the parental help is directed toward extracurricular activities (though not all: some still volunteer as aides but fewer are needed) and this is also valuable. Teachers only have so much time and every hour that a parent works at the school leaves a teacher with a better chance of getting some sleep instead of grading papers at midnight.

 

[Eilan]

So--one of the elementary schools in the Columbus public schools is offering free pizzas to parents who come to conferences or allow the teachers to visit their homes.

Thoughts?

 

[silverwhisper]

sad.

ed

 

[EJFan]

So--one of the elementary schools in the Columbus public schools is offering free pizzas to parents who come to conferences or allow the teachers to visit their homes.

Thoughts?

well. my first thought is: what's on the pizza? is it frozen or fresh-made?

after i got that out of my system i thought: no wonder kids expect to be rewarded for every damned thing they do... that's how their parents are treated apparently.

 

[Eilan]

The reasons behind it are to get parents somewhat involved and make sure that kids who would otherwise go without a hot meal get something.

 

[EJFan]

i can understand the hot meal thing (even though there are many counterpoints to this theory of theirs) but as a tool to induce involvement, that's just loopy.

in my state they have a law that a student can't graduate from HS unless they do so many hours of volunteer work. dude... if it's mandatory, it's not volunteer work now is it???

 

[Eilan]

i can understand the hot meal thing (even though there are many counterpoints to this theory of theirs) but as a tool to induce involvement, that's just loopy.

I'm not saying that I agree with it, either.

Hell, at the last PTO meeting I went to, there were maybe a dozen people--parents AND teachers, and I was the only parent present from my kids' classes. I think there are at least 250 students at the school. The other two elementary schools in the district are bigger, yet their PTO participation is the same.

If we don't bribe parents with pizza, how do we bribe them?

 

[EJFan]

If we don't bribe parents with pizza, how do we bribe them?

sex?

i know you were asking this kiddingly to an extent, but if parents have to be bribed to work in their childrens' better interest then there's really no hope

 

[Guest]

 

[Guest]

 

[Eilan]

OK, PTO meetings are a thorn in my side. Well, I should clarify: PTO meeting at the elementary school my kids attended were a thorn in my side. Yup, there was about 15 to 20 parents/teachers for a school of probably about 300.

The elementary school that I went to always had excellent attendance at their PTO meetings. They used to schedule things like the arts and crafts festival, the poetry contest, the spelling bee, and the science fair so that the meeting started first, and then the awards were handed out or the event (e.g. spelling bee or poetry contest) took place.

The high school didn't have a PTO per se. They did, however, have various booster organizations: academic, athletic, band, etc.

 

[pleasteasme]

Something new to ponder:

I have several special needs students in my class. Some higher functioning than others. Yesterday, the club that I am in charge of on campus put on the Sadie Hawkins dance and we set up immediately after school. In my classes, I announced that we need help after school and students came and helped.

So, one of my higher funtioning special needs students stayed. It is great, we have wonderful students at my school and they are very tolerant and welcoming to our special needs students.

We set up after school...and got done in about two hours (which I had previously told everyone that was our time table). This young lady (my special needs student) needed to call her mom to be picked up...there are three phone numbers to call...none of which ANYONE answered! I kept calling, still with nobody answering and I needed to go get some supplies and finishing touches for the dance that night. Another parent offered to take the girl home...a parent that I know pretty well.

I made the choice to have that parent take her home. Apparently, the mother is very upset that her daughter was brought home. Ummmm, ok....so, was I supposed to leave her at school by herself with no way to continue trying to call for a ride home and nobody there to watch her? Why on earth wouldn't you answer your damn phone(s) over a 45 minute period when you know full well that your child will be calling to be picked up?

Really, I wonder what runs through people's minds. This is irritating the heck out of me because, well...I have this bad habit of internalizing issues and taking ownership of them. So, basicly I feel like I am at fault for making this decision.

 

[EJFan]

Something new to ponder:

I have several special needs students in my class. Some higher functioning than others. Yesterday, the club that I am in charge of on campus put on the Sadie Hawkins dance and we set up immediately after school. In my classes, I announced that we need help after school and students came and helped.

So, one of my higher funtioning special needs students stayed. It is great, we have wonderful students at my school and they are very tolerant and welcoming to our special needs students.

We set up after school...and got done in about two hours (which I had previously told everyone that was our time table). This young lady (my special needs student) needed to call her mom to be picked up...there are three phone numbers to call...none of which ANYONE answered! I kept calling, still with nobody answering and I needed to go get some supplies and finishing touches for the dance that night. Another parent offered to take the girl home...a parent that I know pretty well.

I made the choice to have that parent take her home. Apparently, the mother is very upset that her daughter was brought home. Ummmm, ok....so, was I supposed to leave her at school by herself with no way to continue trying to call for a ride home and nobody there to watch her? Why on earth wouldn't you answer your damn phone(s) over a 45 minute period when you know full well that your child will be calling to be picked up?

Really, I wonder what runs through people's minds. This is irritating the heck out of me because, well...I have this bad habit of internalizing issues and taking ownership of them. So, basicly I feel like I am at fault for making this decision.

it sounds to me like the BIGGEST special need this kid has is a real mother.

 

[SweetErika]

You didn't send her home with a student with questionable driving skills. You didn't leave her alone at the school. You didn't take her with you. You got her a ride home with an adult you know to be safe and responsible.

You did the right thing, PTM.


The mom was most likely angry and embarassed at herself for being irresponsible and looking like a bad parent, so she deflected it on you.

 

[TBKahuna123]

You didn't send her home with a student with questionable driving skills. You didn't leave her alone at the school. You didn't take her with you. You got her a ride home with an adult you know to be safe and responsible.

You did the right thing, PTM.


The mom was most likely angry and embarassed at herself for being irresponsible and looking like a bad parent, so she deflected it on you.

Exactly. I find that usually when people react negatively in situations like this it is to shift blame. Why is it we can't just take responsibility for fucking up anymore?

 

[DLL]

I can tell you that if you do well in college and get a high score on the LSAT you can go to any top tier law school. There are no colleges that are better undergrad institutions than others when it comes to getting in to a top law school just as there are no preferred majors for future lawyers. Admission to law school is a completely different process than college. Law schools place a lot of emphasis on LSAT. Scholarships are often awarded on the basis of LSAT score. They look at GPA in conjunction with the major and college attended. ECs are completely irrelevant, references won't help if your numbers are not good, its all in the numbers. This is because law schools live and die by the US News rankings and median LSAT and GPA (not where students went undergrad) are very important in the US News calculations.

 

[Eilan]

I made the choice to have that parent take her home. Apparently, the mother is very upset that her daughter was brought home. Ummmm, ok....so, was I supposed to leave her at school by herself with no way to continue trying to call for a ride home and nobody there to watch her? Why on earth wouldn't you answer your damn phone(s) over a 45 minute period when you know full well that your child will be calling to be picked up?

So what would the mother have preferred--that you locked up the building and left her there alone until someone came to get her?

You did the right thing, IMO, though I think that where this parent was concerned, you'd have been damned no matter what.

 

[pleasteasme]

Thank you EJ, Erika, Kahuna, & Eilan. I thought I used rational judgement but, when a parent (of all people) reacts so strongly, I take a look at my actions and evaluate - sometimes too critically. I really don't know what she expected me to do! It is over and done with and her daughter is just fine...ahhh, the joys of teaching!

Thanks again for all of your support.

 

[EJFan]

Thanks again for all of your support.

you're welcome. just think of us as your emotional bra.

 

[pleasteasme]

you're welcome. just think of us as your emotional bra.

From the proclaimed Tit inspector...thanks

 

[Eilan]

I thought I used rational judgement but, when a parent (of all people) reacts so strongly, I take a look at my actions and evaluate - sometimes too critically.

I can relate. I'm one of those people who internalizes stuff like this.

Fortunately, when I was teaching college courses, I didn't have to deal with parents too often, though they do occasionally complain about things. Then they get all pissy because the university's confidentiality policies forbid us from talking about the students' grades with anyone, including the parents.

What's your school's policy on stuff like this? My kids are just in elementary school, so they're not generally doing after school activities, but kids who don't ride the bus home are supposed to be picked up by about 2:30 or so, unless they're in the Latchkey Program. School officials will attempt to contact all people on a child's info sheet, but if no one has picked up the child by 2:45, they'll call the authorities. As far as I know, no one has ever not picked up a child.

 

[RomanticLass73]

What's your school's policy on stuff like this? My kids are just in elementary school, so they're not generally doing after school activities, but kids who don't ride the bus home are supposed to be picked up by about 2:30 or so, unless they're in the Latchkey Program. School officials will attempt to contact all people on a child's info sheet, but if no one has picked up the child by 2:45, they'll call the authorities. As far as I know, no one has ever not picked up a child.

Hi all! I'm a newbie to your distinguished thread, drawn here for reasons that will be obvious with my next sentance.... I'm the director of educational programs for a church, with a background in early childhood education.

I am by no means criticizing the decision you made pleasteasme - you made the best decision you could at the time, with the resources and information you had available to you then.

This very situation is one we've had to think about in my line of work, which probably won't surprise anyone, what with all the instances of misconduct and abuse in many many denominations of churches. We use the term "Safe Church policies" in my particular denomination, and I know others use similar terms. And Safe Church involves lots of things - from controlling access (everyone and their uncle twice removed has keys to most of those pretty white churches on the green in New England towns - try to take 'em back and you get "but we've ALWAYS had a key!!" Yeesh.) to making sure pastoral counseling happens in an ethical manner, to making sure that the bodies and spirits of all kids are kept safe. We do that by making sure there are always two adults present with kids, by having windows in classroom doors, by holding training sessions with our volunteers about safe and respectful interactions with kids, and about their responsibility to recognize and report abuse when they see it. Stuff like that.

Many, if not all, school systems have these measures in place - in fact, many churches look at the policies and practices of the schools in their area as a place to start. At my church, we used resources from the schools, as well as resources from our denominational offices and our insurance company to put together policies and practices that fit our setting.

So anyway - I'm always curious about what the policies and proceedures are in various settings, to see if perhaps there's something we missed when we put ours together.

I hope things settle down for you pleasteasme - dealing with grumpy parents is never fun I can totally identify with what you were saying about internalizing the criticism - I do that too. It feels like everything good I've ever done disappears, and the only thing that I can see is the criticism. It sucks *hug*

 

[pleasteasme]

In specific regards to my school policy...We are to chaperone students if we have them after school hours until a parnet or guardian picks them up. The "gray" part is what is considered after school hours. That is not a specified time although, there were still plenty of people at the school at the time we were done decorating: sports teams practicing and such.

There are some other issues with this young lady that I just found out about...she is a liability in a loosely chaperoned situation. Due to that, she is not attending a field trip next week to a large trade show...where the kids are virtually "let loose" on the grounds to investigate on their own. It would have been a VERY bad idea!

The thing that frustrates me so is why the mom didn't answer her phone(s) or was there with her daughter supervising her. I didn't even know the girl was going to be helping after school until she showed up. If I hadn't had to go and run errands for the final touches on the dance & concession stand I would have stayed at school with her myself and kept trying to call her mom.

I'm trying not to dwell on it. It is done. She was returned safely to her home...eh, I just don't know how I could have handled it better.

Thanks again for your support.