Emotional Aspect of Sexual Pleasure and Orgasms

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

You are not the only person in this thread who has interacted with and been involved with helping rape victims. But even when somebody like @OverconfidentSarcasm talks about their experience interacting with victims, you still reject that perspective, because you and you alone are qualified to speak on behalf of all rape victims everywhere. You own the entire topic of rape; you decide what experiences are valid and what are not.

And god help anybody whose experience falls outside what you can imagine as possible.

To be fair, though, I'm still just some dude hiding behind a nickname. Because I sure as hell don't want the people I work with to know about it. Nor would I want my family members to know about it, since I take great care to not bring that shit home with me, and I write to get that stuff out of my head.

So, basically, I could just be some imposter claiming anything. I can't really blame her for not taking my "opinion" as gospel.

 

[Bramblethorn]

All of these links are terribly vague. One of them (the only credible looking one) doesn't seem to have any numbers at all, one contains a story that reads like a lit non-con story and sounds pretty fake,

"Sounds fake" doesn't really get us any further than "this doesn't match my ideas about how people experience rape", which we've been rolling around in for most of this thread. Many authors here have talked about getting "sounds fake" responses to story elements that were drawn from the author's personal experience; I certainly have.

I have no idea what the precise numbers are; that kind of thing is extremely hard to measure. But if it's 5%, that still means most of us know somebody who it's happened to; it still means several women reading this thread and seeing people insist that they couldn't have experienced what they experienced.

We've all heard a hundred times, whenever some sex expert comes onto Good Morning America or whatever, they say men orgasm 95% and up during intercourse and women orgasm roughly 30%. These numbers are very much in line with the picture formed when girls talk among themselves. Us girls know. Some of us orgasm a lot, some never, most of us once in a while. The average is probably something like 30%. And this is consensual.

So yeah, all this 50-60% of rape victims climaxing is just not accurate at all. Unless rapists just tend to be extremely good in bed.

AFAIK, it's less that most men can't bring a woman to orgasm, than that they don't. There are reasons - not benevolent ones - why some rapists might put in more effort on that front, and one of the obvious ones is so they can claim it wasn't rape.

I'm not saying that a
woman could never ever climax during a rape, but it would be exceedingly rare.

I'm arguing more with the "never" version, which isn't yours.

 

[Cagivagurl]

"Women don't come from rape" and "if a woman comes, it isn't rape" are logically equivalent statements. When you say one, you imply the other.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contraposition



You are not the only person in this thread who has interacted with and been involved with helping rape victims. But even when somebody like @OverconfidentSarcasm talks about their experience interacting with victims, you still reject that perspective, because you and you alone are qualified to speak on behalf of all rape victims everywhere. You own the entire topic of rape; you decide what experiences are valid and what are not.

And god help anybody whose experience falls outside what you can imagine as possible.



So you say. And it remains merely you saying it.



Good for you. Really.

But unless you questioned each and every one of them about whether they orgasmed - which would have been a creepy and inappropriate thing to do - it's not clear how that puts you in a position to confidently assert that none of them did.



People have already pointed out in this very thread that "orgasm" and "enjoy it" are not the same thing. It's disgusting that you keep on pretending they're identical for the sake of smearing anybody whose experiences don't agree with yours.

I stated quite plainly.
My words are mine only and I speak only for myself. I do not claim to be an expert, a therapist, or a counsellor. I have an opinion, as does everybody who speaks in these forums....
We are anonymous, and I do not know any of the people from within.
I do have experience in working with victims... You understand the word victim I hope.
Women who have suffered horrendous physical and mental trauma.
Undergone a life destroying event. My role is to help them recover, and try and feel like they can go back into the world....
Many of those women are now friends.
I listened to their stories. The devastation, the horror. Not one of them spoke with anything but disgust at their ordeal.
I will say it again "I do not believe a woman being raped would have an orgasm.... Can I make it clearer...
If by some small miracle, she did. It wouldn't reduce her pain, anguish and horror.
Not sure I could be any clearer.
In talking with the victims, some fought so hard they were battered and bruised.
Some accepted their fate and didn't fight. Just laid there and suffered in silence until it was over.
The victims who suffered in silence, often felt the most shame and humiliation.
Often saying. "I should have fought harder." They felt the self loathing because they didn't fight back...
There are lots of emotions surrounding rape. None of them pleasant.
I will never accept this myth about women enjoying rape. It is a male driven fantasy to strengthen their belief that it is their right. They are predominently the ones with the rape fetish.
There may be a very small percentage of women who share it, but I think it is in truth very small.
Lets face it, there are people with strong fetish's. Like the man who fantasised about being murdered and eaten...
I will fight every time I see this myth floated as being real...
Women, do not enjoy rape...

Cagivagurl

 

[TheRedChamber]

This isn't about rape directly, but the conversation so far got me thinking about it.

Years ago there was a famous advice columnist/agony aunt in the UK called Claire Rayner. She told this story once about a letter she once got from a newly married woman. She said she loved her husband very much, she felt good when they were in bed together and she enjoyed all the sensations of sex and the intimacy, but she just could not orgasm from it and desperately wanted advice on how to reach that elusive big O. Claire devoted the whole of her column to the writing a comprehensive reply to the effect of 'ladies, if sex already feels good why get hung up on this one thing?' After it was published she felt confident that she'd put the matter to rest (at least for her regular readers for a little while)

The next week she got a letter that said 'Every time I have sex I orgasm, but I don't have *any* of the pleasant sensations'

 

[Lady2020]

Unfortunately, women who are raped can orgasm, even if they're trying not to. I assume this applies to women who aren't brutalized (beaten up) in the process. In my case I was raped by my husband after I told him I was leaving. There was nothing sexy or erotic about what he did.

 

[Jmanchu]

I hope you don't mind if I drop in. After I read OP's post and this thread on sexual pleasure and sexuality and orgasms, it got me thinking about what I do and don't like to see in erotica I read in general. When it comes to exploring sexual stories that is erotica, for me, emotional content is very important. It's what gives the characters life, their dreams, excitement, ambitions, their thoughts and feelings, their humanity. And the situations and plot they find themselves in and how they react.

Anyways on the topic of noncon and pleasure from it this thread... I think the whole subject of sexual pleasure, orgasms, and whether or not a person really say that they enjoyed an orgasm (if they can) under that context has been pretty discussed here, so I don't think I can add much more on that part itself other than I find the idea of that subject in reality disturbing and kind of depressing to think about. Regardless of whether or not orgasms can happen in rape situations, the real issue I think is how they are explored in erotica as pointed out by Silk's first post here.

I do think that subject in terms of erotica is a delicate balance that most people just don't do well when writing most stories with those themes. Making a story that follows an actual rape situation, while exploring all these themes in either a tasteful way while maintaining the sexy, especially if it is graphic will just be hard. Especially without dehumanizing one or both characters.

It's a very touchy subject that most people I don't think have the skills to properly explore in an erotica setting in terms of the emotional content(mainly handling the subject or themes of trauma if they're trying to be realistic) while making it erotic. Most either hit short of the mark, or write something that is just going to leave a bad taste in my mouth more than sexy.

I just want to be clear though on noncon or any kind of erotica that explores BDSM(Domination/Submission, Sadism/Masochism), I don't believe there's such thing as hard rules for what people should or shouldn't write. I'm not saying someone can't do it -- if done right even the darkest most fucked up subjects can be quite the read. I don't mind submission/domination stories with dark themes, despite what I said earlier, just as long as it doesn't feel like it's just a scared little slut playing the unwilling sex doll who ends up loving the experience just because she had an orgasm and now thinks it's okay or whatever. Nor do I want to read a story of a victim's suffering being fetishized and sexually glorified for the reader or author. Certain subjects just are much harder to get right in a way that won't make the author seem like a concerning individual, or just not well written both in terms of the emotional content at least and an audience's ability to enjoy a story revolving around questionable sexual themes.

 

[Sexyhelene123]

I think we're back in the territory of fantasy v reality again.

Fantasy: a hot guy, a stranger or someone I know, decides he has to have me, no matter how much I protest, overwhelms me with his force, takes me... yeah, it's hot. But it's hot because it's a fantasy, and in the fantasy it's all sexy and it doesn't really hurt when he grabs me and he's good in bed and after he's done he leaps out of bed and vacuums the whole house.

Reality: It's a massive turn-off if a guy isn't respectful about sex from start to finish.

Why is my brain like this? Who knows. But this is just one example of hundreds of something that someone might fantasize about but not actually wish to do in reality.

I'd love to chat about this if you are free