Ethical/moral/political limits?

[unfoundiamond]

Peoples Limits

I think this is a personal question... as I find taboos hot...

I agree with Primalex, Its about wether a person finds it a turn on or not... not the incorrectness of the act... because then rape porn wouldn't make me wet like a faucet, since its totally wrong in principal, and I know, personally, exactly how wrong.

I think it funny I remember a past thread I discussed doing a phone scene with a quadrapalegic man who wanted his unresponsive body abused because he resented its disability, and people swearing that was a release for him and gave him pleasure, which made it okay...
Now how is this racial situation so diffrent?

If the PYL is responsible and tactful (choosing specific things to say) and giving the pyl the scene they are begging for, what's so wrong with that??

I would venture to say all interrogation is based on the various kinds of interrogations from history... Look at "V for Vendetta", that is remeniscent of Nazi/WW2 style imprisonment and interrogation, which to me looked like any other interrogation I have seen... which would lead me to say that's the norm, so maybe by RPing interrogation at all it is reinacting a ugly smudge in history... is that a reason to give it up alltogether... nah.... just maybe be super careful, as any PYL should be...

Do you think the people who play slaves and Slave owners on television are all racist in RL? I don't... I don't think that you have to agree with something to act it out...

I am also the type of person who will give someone their deepest darkest fantasy, just to do it, and if I cannot(since their are things I cannot bring myself to do) I will find someone to do it in my place, if that means making someone a slave in any sence of the word, and calling them whatever they wanted... I'd do it...

Ps~ If you are gonna say no racist play for ethnicities, and no rape play for victims of rape, and no slave play for anyone who is of a racial background that was ever enslaved... who will be left who is allowed to play...

Sex should be free of censor and judgement, PC is overrated... (IMO)

But people who don't want to do something don't have to, that's why matching kink is important... if you don't like something, someone else is a better match for you...

I guess I can see both sides... but am glad both kinds of people are in this world... people who would, and people who wouldn't...

 

[DeservingBitch]

Unfoundiamond: I'm not trying to police anyone's kink, either here or with the people I choose to play with. What I was talking about were my own limits/hangups. And yes, I do get that a lot of humiliation play - which focus on a 'real life' aspect of the person you're scening with, such as race or a disability - can be very 'freeing' in a way, or just damn hot for that person.

I was just trying to say that there's some scenes/dynamic that because of who I am, and what I believe in, I just can't manage to eroticize them. I certainly understand why other people - even people with a similar personal history, beliefs, and identity as me - can find those same things super hawt.

On another note, I remember you talking about this phone client, and you bringing it up again made me realize another one inconsistency in how my brain process those things and eroticize them or not: I would be totally cool for instance doing a scene with someone that would center or focus around her/his disability, even humiliation.

So maybe my thing about race play is just remnant of white guilt.

 

[unfoundiamond]

Oh you're so cool and hot...

I am gonna get a little "geeky fan boy" on you-*wink*

Thx for entertaining my thoughts... Its very cool to share my ideas... and nice thread...

*sits and watches quietly*

 

[JMohegan]

I might get off watching that.

Ha, Ha - good to know!

 

[twysted73]

I think this is a personal question... as I find taboos hot...

I guess I can see both sides... but am glad both kinds of people are in this world... people who would, and people who wouldn't...

I'm glad you're a part of the portion of those who would.
I would love to delve deeper into the psychosis of another. Like a playground.
Sex is awesome, don't get me wrong. But a partner of mine had a beautiful mind. I enjoyed how it worked and as I drove home I couldn't help but think of how much I wanted to play with her again. Not solely sex mind you. But that beautiful mind of hers. Wanted to delve deep and find those "taboos" you speak of. Root them out and play with them with her.
It's so hard to find a playmate to focus solely on and trust.
Just makes it that more connecting when you do.

 

[unfoundiamond]

so I guess...

So DB...

I wonder if you felt like not doing this scene for him (political/ethical/moral views aside) because you wherent invested in him (not to say you didn't care for this person) but lets flip the script and say this was your lover (change him to a female for example) and (s)he always found this hot... (insert taboo scene here, you don't agree with)

Lets say you care about her, and want to make her wildest fantasies come true... things she has never admitted to anyone or tried...

Would you be more likely to do that scene if you cared for the person...

I just wonder if your stance would change if the person ment more to you,

If you knew they shared your ethical/political/moral rules, but where turned on by the taboo of it...

 

[twysted73]

So DB...

I wonder if you felt like not doing this scene for him (political/ethical/moral views aside) because you wherent invested in him (not to say you didn't care for this person) but lets flip the script and say this was your lover (change him to a female for example) and (s)he always found this hot... (insert taboo scene here, you don't agree with)

Lets say you care about her, and want to make her wildest fantasies come true... things she has never admitted to anyone or tried...

Would you be more likely to do that scene if you cared for the person...

I just wonder if your stance would change if the person ment more to you,

If you knew they shared your ethical/political/moral rules, but where turned on by the taboo of it...

I would like to answer this question.
I'd love to take a stab at it as I feel very strongly about it. The reasoning behind it being I feel that if you feel so close to someone..have trust, faith..love? for them..with them...I feel anything is impossible. It's manic in a way. But as most in here would greatly agree with me, your levels of comfort and the limitations of your boundries are almost tested daily by what you consider acceptable at this moment based on the bond and connection you feel with your partner.
If you knew you'd not be judged, criticised, questioned or blamed for your desires. For your fantasies that you enjoy in the darkness of the night. When the house is silent and you're all alone. If you knew you'd be accepted, cherished, enjoyed and loved...encouraged for those secrets you only tell yourself....how many limits would you truly have?
I think one of the most attractive things about the lifestyle are the limitless possabilities. How your actions are dictated by your decisions alone and what you enjoy is your business.
I stopped caring ( for the most part ) about the opinions of others 7 years ago.
Remorselessness? No. I give consideration to the opinions of others much like I give friendship and trust. Sparingly and speciffically to a very small population. Imagine a target. Red dot at the center and widening rings around it.
If I consider you to be on that dot, you get all of me. Loyalty, trust, faithfulness, devotion, availability, dependability, etc.
As we head out of that dot those qualities are further restricted.
It's important to know just who you consider to be at the center and within those first 2 rings.
As for those on the outer edges....I'd rather be hated for who I am then loved for who I am not. If they can't accept me..take the time to know me and understand me..appreciate me, then they're out there on the edges for a reason.

 

[DeservingBitch]

So DB...

I wonder if you felt like not doing this scene for him (political/ethical/moral views aside) because you wherent invested in him (not to say you didn't care for this person) but lets flip the script and say this was your lover (change him to a female for example) and (s)he always found this hot... (insert taboo scene here, you don't agree with)

Lets say you care about her, and want to make her wildest fantasies come true... things she has never admitted to anyone or tried...

Would you be more likely to do that scene if you cared for the person...

I just wonder if your stance would change if the person ment more to you,

If you knew they shared your ethical/political/moral rules, but where turned on by the taboo of it...

Good question there.

And yes, I think you may be on to something. I did do something close to a 'rape' scene with a former lover once, even though rape fantasies/scenes do nothing for me, and even kind of ick me. But she wanted to do it to 'reappropriate' her first sexual encounter which was not exactly a happy one - replaying it with me with her script was for her a way to take back this first abusive experience. I ended up doing it for her, and it was a great and hot afternoon.

So yes, maybe if it was someone i care for, I would be more inclined to go for race play/scenes. There's the desire to please and cater to the needs of my partner that would come into the equation, but also I think I would feel more comfortable engaging in such scene with someone I have some sort of intimate relationship with already.

But I still wouldn't go anywhere near 'forced feminization' humiliation scenes, irrespective of who I'm playing with.

Thanks for your comment - it forced me to be a little more self-reflective about those 'limits' I have.

 

[Homburg]

Good question there.

And yes, I think you may be on to something. I did do something close to a 'rape' scene with a former lover once, even though rape fantasies/scenes do nothing for me, and even kind of ick me. But she wanted to do it to 'reappropriate' her first sexual encounter which was not exactly a happy one - replaying it with me with her script was for her a way to take back this first abusive experience. I ended up doing it for her, and it was a great and hot afternoon.

*snip*

Thanks for your comment - it forced me to be a little more self-reflective about those 'limits' I have.

The same with me. Same experience with fantasy rape, and an utter unwillingness to do it with anyone I do not know well, and have deep, and reciprocated, emotions for.

 

[unfoundiamond]

I was just wondering why I would.

I was thinking about your question and I was trying to figure out why I feel I would do ANY scene for a lover...

And I realized I would have to have strong feelings for the pyl involved... and I would choose very carefully how I'd reffer to them, using posessive reffrences, and making sure to make their pleasure tthe only memory...

I am glad to hear I am not a monster, I didn't try to change your mind, I just intended to show you my point of view...

I believe that logic will speak for itself, I don't need to convince you, but I have no problem with discussions... I enjoy them..

 

[Lady_In_Black]

Unless it was setting a bad example, like in Homburgs post about the leash in public, I don't see myself having issues with any stereotypes or offending people or anything. As long as the other person is fine with it.

 

[madetotakeit]

I have been mulling over this thread quite a bit. It is somewhat of a thorny subject because it makes you consider something that inherently makes you uncomfortable. I have had my fantasies that I was uncomfortable with myself.
I have mostly worked through those talking with people online with the safety of anonymity. I'm okay with the fantasies. I admit them to myself and indulge in them when mood strikes. Admitting them to another is trickier. I have, but only due to feeling I would not be judged. Could I be capable of sharing those with someone I looked in the eye? I wasn't sure. I'm still not sure how I would react if I discussed them face to face instead of behind a keyboard. So I have overcome the hurdles of accepting and admitting to someone real. But would I actually act on them?

...your levels of comfort and the limitations of your boundries are almost tested daily by what you consider acceptable at this moment based on the bond and connection you feel with your partner.
If you knew you'd not be judged, criticised, questioned or blamed for your desires. For your fantasies that you enjoy in the darkness of the night. When the house is silent and you're all alone. If you knew you'd be accepted, cherished, enjoyed and loved...encouraged for those secrets you only tell yourself....how many limits would you truly have?

In that situation I would have to say I see myself having very few. With that ideal situation. As that connection deepened the walls would naturally move further back allowing more possibilities. Acting out mine, acting out his. Although I might be nervous, with someone I had that connection with I could see acting on it. Of course how many truly have that ideal situation?

...How your actions are dictated by your decisions alone and what you enjoy is your business.

That is the key. If there is no possibility harm as a result I would do something I am not comfortable with if the person I am with wants it. In the outside world I have done things that on my own I would not choose to do because I was invested in that person. Whether it was a family member, a friend, or a lover. Why would I not extend this to something that to me is much more intimate? I am not referring to hard limits, although those will change as I do. But who does it actually effect? Beyond those walls? No one. Only the face across from you and the face in the mirror. And truthfully the face in the mirror is the most important.

 

[Marquis]

Interesting topic.

I fucked a girl in college a few times who would eventually start saying shit like "yeah, get that shit nigga, fuck that shit nigga" it was nigga this nigga that, nigga all over the place as soon as I had my dick in her.

I'm all for talking dirty, but for some reason I wasn't a fan of this at all. Also, I should mention she was black, so it didn't really seem so much like a racial objectification thing, as I might've felt had she been a white girl. In all honesty, I think I would've been more ok with that scenario.

But it did feel like the word was being used in a way black people use with each other more often than you might think, not as a term of affection or fraternity but for its more traditional derisive effect.

Essentially it felt like she was saying "yeah, dont you love this pussy you damn dirty dog" and Marquis dont get off like that.

 

[Marquis]

Oh and I should mention that I say things race related to women I fuck that I wouldn't even type here, and I type a lot of shit here, so you can imagine.

You'll have to.

 

[bronntanas]

I wasn't going to comment here because my answer to the question has kind of already been given back on the first page. I don't think it's a question of morals or ethics, I think it's a question of triggers and kinks. Since I tend to date or serve people who's political/moral/moral compass is similar to mine, it doesn't affect me really. But then I saw this from Netzach.

(Although I'd like to work over a really muscular blond in Nazi getup really really really hard sometime - I could do it at home and be OK)

First thought was "pick me! pick me!" I'm tall, blond, I got some muscles! But then someone asked me "what if it wasn't a Nazi/Jewish person scene? What if it was a British Soldier/Irish Patriot scene?" That'd be a hard limit. Because the Republic of Ireland hasn't had it's freedom for very long, comparatively speaking. Because I know people who fought for our Freedom. Because in the border counties (between the Republic, which is free and Northern Ireland, which is part of the United Kingdom) these tensions still run too hot and high to play with. It seems disrespectful. It feels wrong, and not sexy. Which is freaky because WW2 happened AFTER we became independent. Maybe it's because I'm too close the second scenario.

It was an interesting mind trip to ponder all of this. I wonder if there's something reprehensible about me that I'd be willing to play with someone else's political weirdnesses but not mine.

 

[Marquis]

It was an interesting mind trip to ponder all of this. I wonder if there's something reprehensible about me that I'd be willing to play with someone else's political weirdnesses but not mine.

No, I think that's pretty much par for the course, although I do get a special excitement out of pushing myself and my lover as close to home as possible.

 

[Homburg]

Well, I got close to one of mine last night. I went to a party and tied a girl that is 19 years old. She's young enough to be my daughter, and she's a teeny little petite thing, making her look younger than she is. I was honestly worried that I'd get squicked on the age issue. No problem whatsoever. She was another (shapely) body to apply rope to. Had a good time, and enjoyed tying her. Not totally sure what that says about me.

 

[DeservingBitch]

Had a good time, and enjoyed tying her. Not totally sure what that says about me.

Lemme think... *thinks* ... maybe that you like tying up pretty girls?

 

[Homburg]

Lemme think... *thinks* ... maybe that you like tying up pretty girls?

Yeah, I'm thinking so too. I like your take on it much better than me just being a pervy old man.

 

[unfoundiamond]

Okay.... so, if you don't like that...

So... I was reading the progression of the thread and I was smacked in the face with a question...

Are the people who don't like the idea of doing a "pick your label" scene, the same people who don't do things just to please others? (If you don't want to do something, you just don't do it)

I know I do thinks sometimes solely to please others, because I know they want it, and I also notice that I would act out a scene solely for the enjoyment of watching my partner and performing... I like to perform...

So maybe the two things are related...

And BTW... Marquis...

So you admit you say things to wome you wouldn't write on here, So does that mean, lets say for example, I being a southern white woman, had a "rapeplay" fantasy involving you, a black man, sneaking into my room at night(me being the Masters daughter for example) and you "rape" me using racial slurs and humiliation going the other way... Lemmie guess, you'd do it...

So why does the inverse bother you?

Great thread...

You made my night people!

 

[DeservingBitch]

Yeah, I'm thinking so too. I like your take on it much better than me just being a pervy old man.

Well, there's that too. But there's many a girl that likes a Daddy

 

[DeservingBitch]

Are the people who don't like the idea of doing a "pick your label" scene, the same people who don't do things just to please others? (If you don't want to do something, you just don't do it)

I know I do thinks sometimes solely to please others, because I know they want it, and I also notice that I would act out a scene solely for the enjoyment of watching my partner and performing... I like to perform...

Not in my case.

I don't do 'forced feminization' humiliation scene or 'forced gay' humiliation scene because I *am* a femme woman, and I *am* queer -- I'm really not into the idea that being like me is something that is humiliating.

I will however gladly assist in putting some cute boy in lacy panties or provinding him with a cock to suck. But because it's hot -- not because it's 'humiliating'.

 

[Homburg]

Well, there's that too. But there's many a girl that likes a Daddy

I don't do the ageplay thing, nor D/g. Not my bag. I've had relationships that others would call D/g, but it was never that way in my head.

With four kids, I do the Dad thing in my everyday life. No desire to do it in my sex life.

 

[DeservingBitch]

I don't do the ageplay thing, nor D/g. Not my bag. I've had relationships that others would call D/g, but it was never that way in my head.

With four kids, I do the Dad thing in my everyday life. No desire to do it in my sex life.

Fine. Be that way. Pfff.

 

[Homburg]

Fine. Be that way. Pfff.

Okay, okay, I'll make an exception por vous. But only because I adore you.

Get me a pic of you in pigtails and a pinafore dress and I might just rethink my lack of interest in ageplay too

(Toooootally missed that line there. Stupid need for sleep...)