February Sucks in LW

[Gamblnluck]

He had a lousy resolution...in some people's opinion. To still be near a four there had to be a fair amount of people who were okay with it.

If you didn't like the ending, of course that's your right, and you're right to have the opinion of why you didn't like it.

My point about it being a lousy resolution is this. If how George ended it was 'satisfactory' whether it be reconciliation or divorce or whatever, it would have NEVER engendered so many alternate endings.
Yeah, his story got 'near a four' but a story that results in so much of a reaction generally scores MUCH higher.
Read the comments. Get an idea how many do not think the ending was justified after what she did, or how she did it. IT DID NOT FIT.

I am not saying this from a BTB standpoint nor a reconciliation. I am say if the end is justified, fine. Here, it FELT wrong. So many wrote an alternative.

 

[stev2244]

It's not easy to count the number of stories based on February, as there have been some that are just very loosely based on it. Some use the word February in the title, but don't have much to do with the original plot. Some use other months or titles but the basic plot. Some authors wrote more than one. Some of those stories are not new, but edits of their own, older rewrites. I still have tried to count the number of stories based on it, but because of the mentioned things it might be inaccurate. Including today's version and the original, my current count is at 127.

As far as I know, George doesn't grant or deny permission. He can't be contacted through the normal Lit feedback system. He granted permission for the first few versions. Somehow, that morphed into the assumption that he gave a blanket permission for everything people want to do with it. I personally dislike versions where people copy parts of the original text and just insert their own stuff in between. Most don't even try to keep the style or the protags consistent. Apart from that, I'm still amazed about the number. Still, if people feel the need to do it, why not? The story obviously achieved what many authors try to do, touching the reader. In my opinion, that story alone makes George the most influential writer, at least in LW.

 

[MattblackUK]

Now, here's a radical idea. If anyone doesn't like reading continuations or alternative takes of a certain story, or even stories by a specific author... just don't read them?

 

[Seadog777]

Well, George Anderson actually gives blanket permission for anybody to write their own version of the story.

I absolutely disagree, I love seeing all the different stories of his work. It's fun to see where people go with it.

I wrote one of the better ones, ranked 9th overall, because I got something like 15 emails from readers asking me to write one.

 

[Cagivagurl]

I don't believe George did grant a blanket approval.
It has become folklore, and so many writers have just butchered his work. He got sick of complaining about it.
I think you will find, he is actual quite distressed by the whole thing.
George is a very talented writer, and it amazes me that so many people think they could do better makes me laugh...
I agree with @stev2244. George is the most influential writers on the site.
George, wrote a story that moved many people. It will become one of the classic stories here in Literotica.
The fact 127 people attempted, but failed to improve on his story is testament to his writing ability.
Love or hate the story, it is impossible not to be moved by it.
That is something the other 127 should think about.

Cagivagurl

 

[NoTalentHack]

It’s on his profile.

I hereby grant anyone who wishes it, permission to create derivative works from my stories on Literotica, with two conditions:

1. A link to the original must appear at the top of the derivative work. (If you don't know how to do this, ask the moderator.)

2. Quotations from the original text longer than a paragraph must be set apart (e.g. with italics) and attributed.

 

[nice90sguy]

Can I ask what makes people write alternate takes to this story when it has literally been done dozens of times? I am serious, there is not one plot thread that has been missed or unexplored. What is it about that ridiculous story that makes people feel "oh my God I just HAVE to add to that catalogue" and George, if you happen to read this. Can you stop authorizing requests? It was amusing at first but Jesus how many times do we have to see it?

Yeah I know, I don't have to read them. I try to ignore them but Jesus it's like multiple every single day. These writers are worse than Hollywood. They don't have original ideas either.

Okay rant off. I am sorry if I offended you all. Not the people who perpetuate this but those who are more forgiving and tolerant than I.

It's wonderful blurts like these that keep me checking this forum. Priceless

 

[Cagivagurl]

It’s on his profile.

I believe he posted that because he got sick of all the bullshit. Rewrite after rewrite, nobody even bothering to contact him and ask permission. Just a bunch of rude people who think so highly of themselves. They thought they could do better.
Unfortunately, they were In my opinion... Mistaken. George is such a talented writer, none of the attempted rewrites ever managed to come close to the original work. Never managed to grasp the emotional connection.
Love it or hate it. George's work was so much better than any of the rewrites.

Cagivagurl

 

[NoTalentHack]

I believe he posted that because he got sick of all the bullshit. Rewrite after rewrite, nobody even bothering to contact him and ask permission. Just a bunch of rude people who think so highly of themselves. They thought they could do better.
Unfortunately, they were In my opinion... Mistaken. George is such a talented writer, none of the attempted rewrites ever managed to come close to the original work. Never managed to grasp the emotional connection.
Love it or hate it. George's work was so much better than any of the rewrites.

Cagivagurl

I don't know about "better."

Technically better written? Probably; there are a LOT of bad LW followups out there. I don't know of one that's better in terms of grammar, word choice, etc. So we'll say "yes" there.

Emotionally evocative? Sort of. But I don't think, for most of the people reading it, int he ways that maybe he meant for it to be, unless he was shooting for "disbelief" and "anger." If he was? Hell yeah, nailed it. If not? Well...

And plotwise? No. Just no. Up until the third act, I'd have said "sure," assuming you buy into the disclaimer at the top that this is a way that a real woman would act. I don't, but okay; it's LW, I don't expect perfect faithfulness to reality. But by the third act, the whole thing started to creak under unbelievable plot point after unbelievable plot point, topped off with a Xanatos gambit, a deus ex machina, and a reveal that demands any right-thinking person say "WTF!"

I say this as someone who loves the story. Loooooves it. But I also recognize that it's very flawed, and the flaws are part of what makes it so evocative. If it made perfect or even just more sense--say if it eliminated the Ellen subplot entirely and just ended with an uncomfortable detente between Linda and Jim, with him staying somewhat unhappily for the kids--it would be a better story from a story standpoint, but also it would have made a lot fewer waves.

It's like I said,

Any two or three things that happen in the original story would be plausible together: A famous person sweeps your wife off her feet AND it's in public. Your wife cheats on you AND she doesn't seem sorry afterwards AND a family friend tells you to suck it up and stay together for the kids. Either of those works as a reasonably realistic story. But if you take all of those and then lump on the fifteen or twenty other things that happen in the original story, it starts to feel like a nightmare. All it's missing is having all of your teeth falling out and having to take your final exam naked after missing all your classes for the semester.

So, yeah, I totally get people taking swings at redoing it, because that last third, especially, is absolutely maddening.

I understand that it may have been frustrating to him to have people do their reworks on it, but given that half of his works page is sequels and/or rewrites of other peoples' stories (including the magnificent Another Love: Lost), and that he gave some people permission early on, I think most people just assumed he'd be down for people playing in his sandbox.

As to his influence? Yeah, absolutely. If he were on the ballot, I'd vote for him, at least if he was still active. He had that one story this year, but other than that, we haven't seen anything new from him since 2021, which is a shame.

 

[Cagivagurl]

I don't know about "better."

Technically better written? Probably; there are a LOT of bad LW followups out there. I don't know of one that's better in terms of grammar, word choice, etc. So we'll say "yes" there.

Emotionally evocative? Sort of. But I don't think, for most of the people reading it, int he ways that maybe he meant for it to be, unless he was shooting for "disbelief" and "anger." If he was? Hell yeah, nailed it. If not? Well...

And plotwise? No. Just no. Up until the third act, I'd have said "sure," assuming you buy into the disclaimer at the top that this is a way that a real woman would act. I don't, but okay; it's LW, I don't expect perfect faithfulness to reality. But by the third act, the whole thing started to creak under unbelievable plot point after unbelievable plot point, topped off with a Xanatos gambit, a deus ex machina, and a reveal that demands any right-thinking person say "WTF!"

I say this as someone who loves the story. Loooooves it. But I also recognize that it's very flawed, and the flaws are part of what makes it so evocative. If it made perfect or even just more sense--say if it eliminated the Ellen subplot entirely and just ended with an uncomfortable detente between Linda and Jim, with him staying somewhat unhappily for the kids--it would be a better story from a story standpoint, but also it would have made a lot fewer waves.

It's like I said,



So, yeah, I totally get people taking swings at redoing it, because that last third, especially, is absolutely maddening.

I understand that it may have been frustrating to him to have people do their reworks on it, but given that half of his works page is sequels and/or rewrites of other peoples' stories (including the magnificent Another Love: Lost), and that he gave some people permission early on, I think most people just assumed he'd be down for people playing in his sandbox.

As to his influence? Yeah, absolutely. If he were on the ballot, I'd vote for him, at least if he was still active. He had that one story this year, but other than that, we haven't seen anything new from him since 2021, which is a shame.

I don't believe George, was upset that people wanted to rewrite it.
I think what annoyed him was the way in which it was handled.
People diving in with no regard to the fact it was his work. Never seeking permission. Never seeking to contact from the people wanting to write their attempts.
I think if he had been asked. if you were polite, he would have granted you permission.

As far as being flawed...
I disagree entirely. In you opinion that might be the case. But that would be only your view. So, if you had said in my opinion... I would have accepted your premise.

George, wrote a story, a fictitious story about a fictitious event. He wrote it the way he wanted. Stirred emotions, opened dialogue.
So flawed... No. It was told as he wanted. His writing may not be perfect, but I assure you. It is technically better than 99% of the people who tried.

The only flaw is you not being able to see that.

I didn't say you had to agree with it, or believe it was possible, or even plausible....
It was merely a writer, a very good writer telling a story.
He told it so well, that it infuriated thousands. Who cares, that was his prerogative.
You read the story, and it didn't end the way you wanted it to. Tough cookies...
It was never meant to be anything other than an intriguing story. Job done.

BTW... Anyone reading this.
It is only my opinion. I am not speaking for George. Although I do count George as a very dear friend. I am merely pointing out that the story wasn't flawed. Your reading and mistakenly thinking you understood what he was saying within it, that was the error.

Cagivagurl

 

[NoTalentHack]

I don't believe George, was upset that people wanted to rewrite it.
I think what annoyed him was the way in which it was handled.
People diving in with no regard to the fact it was his work. Never seeking permission. Never seeking to contact from the people wanting to write their attempts.
I think if he had been asked. if you were polite, he would have granted you permission.

As far as being flawed...
I disagree entirely. In you opinion that might be the case. But that would be only your view. So, if you had said in my opinion... I would have accepted your premise.

George, wrote a story, a fictitious story about a fictitious event. He wrote it the way he wanted. Stirred emotions, opened dialogue.
So flawed... No. It was told as he wanted. His writing may not be perfect, but I assure you. It is technically better than 99% of the people who tried.

The only flaw is you not being able to see that.

I didn't say you had to agree with it, or believe it was possible, or even plausible....
It was merely a writer, a very good writer telling a story.
He told it so well, that it infuriated thousands. Who cares, that was his prerogative.
You read the story, and it didn't end the way you wanted it to. Tough cookies...
It was never meant to be anything other than an intriguing story. Job done.

BTW... Anyone reading this.
It is only my opinion. I am not speaking for George. Although I do count George as a very dear friend. I am merely pointing out that the story wasn't flawed. Your reading and mistakenly thinking you understood what he was saying within it, that was the error.

Cagivagurl

Given that I was stating opinion, about a thing that one can only speak opinion on, I didn't think it was necessary to preface my comment. In the future, when speaking with you, I'll endeavor to make myself clearer to you.

In exchange, could enlighten me? Nearly every exchange I've had with you about anything more divisive than the weather has ended with you almost huffing, "Good day sir!" at the end. It's like you're looking to take offense at damned near anything I say, and then usually trying to insult on top of that. Have I done something to offend you? Because I have no clue what your deal is.

 

[Cagivagurl]

Given that I was stating opinion, about a thing that one can only speak opinion on, I didn't think it was necessary to preface my comment. In the future, when speaking with you, I'll endeavor to make myself clearer to you.

In exchange, could enlighten me? Nearly every exchange I've had with you about anything more divisive than the weather has ended with you almost huffing, "Good day sir!" at the end. It's like you're looking to take offense at damned near anything I say, and then usually trying to insult on top of that. Have I done something to offend you? Because I have no clue what your deal is.

I have no issue with you.
I do disagree with you on several things.
We are adults and can do so. It is acceptable to have a different view of the world.
I did not mean to offend.
It is something I see all to often. A person stating their view as if they are the unwritten expert on subjects.
I think it prudent to explain that you are doing nothing more than offering your opinion. Which after all, is what you are doing.
Opinions, including my own are worth only what you paid for them.
I don't claim to be an expert.
I don't think that I have all the answers, but I do have opinions, which I am happy to share.
I also take umbrage when my friends are insulted.
In your case it was the inference that my friends story was flawed. Which of course it wasn't.
How could it be. It was a fictitious story about fictitious people. If the story was a historical novel, then you could argue it was flawed. There are actual facts to question.
When writing fiction we are all free to write what we want. So longas we stay within the legal, and ethical boundaries...
Sorry you took offence.
Not my intention.

Cagivagurl

 

[blackrandl1958]

It’s on his profile.

Yeah, but that’s not exactly how it happened. Keep in mind now, I know Mr. Anderson personally. I speak with him on almost a daily basis, and we have been acquainted since 2015. I know what I’m talking about. Mr. Anderson published his story on September 11, 2020. I edited that story. Almost immediately, mutual friends began to ask permission to write derivative stories. Mr. Anderson graciously granted his endorsement. As I recall, there were about 15 versions “authorized” by Mr. Anderson. I also edited many of those.

In December, 2020, Mr. Anderson left Literotica for an extended period, stretching from December, 2020, until June, 3, 2023. Between December, 2020 and June, 2023, there were approximately 100 versions of “February Sucks” published.

Not only did the writers of those stories NOT obtain permission from Mr. Anderson to use his story, characters, plot, etc., it was impossible to obtain, because Mr. Anderson was incommunicado except for a handful of people who are personally acquainted with him. He wasn't even on Literotica.

You, Mr. Hack, published your “February Sucks” version on December 7, 2022, without either “blanket” or specific permission from Mr. Anderson to use his work. Mr. Seadog published his version on November 15, 2022. Neither of you had any “permission,” blanket, or otherwise, to do what you did.

You say that Mr. Anderson’s story list contains “sequels,” and that is true. Sequels for which Mr. Anderson both sought, and obtained, the original author’s permission.

When he returned to Literotica in June, 2023, recognizing the fait accompli, Mr. Anderson issued that “blanket” permission for sequels on June 3, 2023. You didn’t have it when you posted your story, and neither did anyone else between those dates.

There was even false and misleading information being bandied about. Another writer, KitDeLuca164, wrote in their “February” version: “I reached out to GA prior to publishing this story but I have not heard back(he could not be reached BR). My understanding from the editors of Literotica is that GA has provided blanket permission for epilogues to his story.” That was both false, and misleading, for there are no “editors of Literotica" and thus no such statement, but that author then began to give people “permission” to use Mr. Anderson’s story without his authorization.

Where do people get the idea that asking for permission is the same thing as OBTAINING permission? If an author does not respond to my seeking, am I then free to use his intellectual property without his permission? Of course not. It is preposterous. If you write to me, ask permission and I do not respond, that is a silent “fuck off,” not permission. At the best it’s horrendous manners. At the worst, it’s pure plagiarism.

I realize you are an authority on Literotica, and LW, in particular, but before you profess knowledge, don’t you suppose it would be better to actually know? Some of us do. The OGs are still around, Mr. Hack.

 

[NoTalentHack]

Yeah, but that’s not exactly how it happened. Keep in mind now, I know Mr. Anderson personally. I speak with him on almost a daily basis, and we have been acquainted since 2015. I know what I’m talking about. Mr. Anderson published his story on September 11, 2020. I edited that story. Almost immediately, mutual friends began to ask permission to write derivative stories. Mr. Anderson graciously granted his endorsement. As I recall, there were about 15 versions “authorized” by Mr. Anderson. I also edited many of those.

In December, 2020, Mr. Anderson left Literotica for an extended period, stretching from December, 2020, until June, 3, 2023. Between December, 2020 and June, 2023, there were approximately 100 versions of “February Sucks” published.

Not only did the writers of those stories NOT obtain permission from Mr. Anderson to use his story, characters, plot, etc., it was impossible to obtain, because Mr. Anderson was incommunicado except for a handful of people who are personally acquainted with him. He wasn't even on Literotica.

You, Mr. Hack, published your “February Sucks” version on December 7, 2022, without either “blanket” or specific permission from Mr. Anderson to use his work. Mr. Seadog published his version on November 15, 2022. Neither of you had any “permission,” blanket, or otherwise, to do what you did.

You say that Mr. Anderson’s story list contains “sequels,” and that is true. Sequels for which Mr. Anderson both sought, and obtained, the original author’s permission.

When he returned to Literotica in June, 2023, recognizing the fait accompli, Mr. Anderson issued that “blanket” permission for sequels on June 3, 2023. You didn’t have it when you posted your story, and neither did anyone else between those dates.

In retrospect, you're right. However, we believed we had blanket permission. Why? Because he didn't say a damned thing on anyone else's story, either, and he HAD given permission to others, and he HAD written sequels himself. There was, whether you believe it or not, a general belief amongst the non-"Legends" of LW that blanket permission existed, even if it wasn't true.

There was even false and misleading information being bandied about. Another writer, KitDeLuca164, wrote in their “February” version: “I reached out to GA prior to publishing this story but I have not heard back(he could not be reached BR). My understanding from the editors of Literotica is that GA has provided blanket permission for epilogues to his story.” That was both false, and misleading, for there are no “editors of Literotica" and thus no such statement, but that author then began to give people “permission” to use Mr. Anderson’s story without his authorization.

The "editors of Literotica," I presume, are the volunteer editors. Kit--whom I only vaguely know, but believe wouldn't have done harm intentionally anymore than I would have--most likely was told by her editor on that story, the first story, or by someone she presumed was an editor, that George had provided blanket permission. And why wouldn't she? By the time her sequel had been published, how many versions of the story were out there? 70-odd. Of course it was the belief in the community by then.

Where do people get the idea that asking for permission is the same thing as OBTAINING permission? If an author does not respond to my seeking, am I then free to use his intellectual property without his permission? Of course not. It is preposterous. If you write to me, ask permission and I do not respond, that is a silent “fuck off,” not permission. At the best it’s horrendous manners. At the worst, it’s pure plagiarism.

I'm sorry, but that's absolute nonsense. Fan fiction--which is what everything after the original FS was--is not plagiarism. It's not an attempt to write a "definitive" ending, nor (especially on this site) is it an attempt to profit off it. It's people wanting to put their own spin on a story, almost always crediting the original, on something they love. It's no different than going over to AO3 to publish their Spock/Kirk slash fiction; it's just that the fanbase for these characters is much, much smaller.

As to whether a failure to respond is a silent "fuck off," well, that goes both ways. If a failure to respond is "fuck off," a subsequent posting can be a "fuck you." It wasn't in my case, since I believed that blanket permission existed--as we were up to over 100 versions by the time I published--but I did try to reach out as a nicety. Even with fair use doctrine, which I think this qualifies as, it's polite to ask. If he had said no, I wouldn't have published, but he said nothing at all, and given that feedback was still enabled on his profile at the time, I, along with everyone else that tried to contact him, had reason to believe that he was still reachable.

I realize you are an authority on Literotica, and LW, in particular, but before you profess knowledge, don’t you suppose it would be better to actually know? Some of us do. The OGs are still around, Mr. Hack.

Really? Because this is the first time I've talked with you, over a year after I started publishing. I know you're an editor here--congrats on the win, by the way, well deserved--but most of the OGs post something for your invitationals a couple times a year, then once or twice more per year, at the most. Some leave a few comments on other people's work outside of your clique, but most only rarely. And, hey, we're all busy, and I know I'm absolutely awful about commenting myself, although I do mail back and forth with several writers.

But I'm also not the one coming onto the forums trying to put someone in their place.

This is, according to the counter, your 61st post on the forums in the eight years you've been a member here. Yeah, you're a prolific editor, which everyone on Lit should be grateful for. But outside of the people you edit for and the folks in your invitationals (which I assume have a Venn diagram that's basically an overlap), how often are you out among the hoi polloi?

I have been out here damned near every day trying to get fresh blood into the category, even people who write stories I'll probably dislike. I've been defending the category to the people who think it's nothing but trolls and incels, including at least one person in this discussion. I constantly offer words of encouragement and praise to authors whose only criteria is that I like their work, not that they bend the knee, going so far as to actively reach out to them to ask permission to highlight their works in my own.

So, I am truly sorry if I offended George. I have nothing but respect for him, and any slight was purely unintentional. If he asks me to take down my version, I will, albeit unhappily. But as to all the rest? That the community should feel shame for assuming that a work is fair game after dozens of reworks with no one saying a peep about those? Nah.

That's what a community does. It takes stories and tells and retells them, especially the ones that have great meaning to them. They've been doing that since the Greeks. Hell, there's a whole giant-ass website dedicated to fanfiction, and we even have a dedicated category for it here. If, as Cagivagurl did, he had posted a notice in his profile to not rework his stories, I doubt anyone would have.

Or at least they would have done the usual "clever" thing of renaming the characters and tweaking a few details, like everyone else has with their "honey, we need to talk" stories since nici. You know, since we're talking about OGs here.

 

[Cagivagurl]

In retrospect, you're right. However, we believed we had blanket permission. Why? Because he didn't say a damned thing on anyone else's story, either, and he HAD given permission to others, and he HAD written sequels himself. There was, whether you believe it or not, a general belief amongst the non-"Legends" of LW that blanket permission existed, even if it wasn't true.



The "editors of Literotica," I presume, are the volunteer editors. Kit--whom I only vaguely know, but believe wouldn't have done harm intentionally anymore than I would have--most likely was told by her editor on that story, the first story, or by someone she presumed was an editor, that George had provided blanket permission. And why wouldn't she? By the time her sequel had been published, how many versions of the story were out there? 70-odd. Of course it was the belief in the community by then.



I'm sorry, but that's absolute nonsense. Fan fiction--which is what everything after the original FS was--is not plagiarism. It's not an attempt to write a "definitive" ending, nor (especially on this site) is it an attempt to profit off it. It's people wanting to put their own spin on a story, almost always crediting the original, on something they love. It's not different than going over to AO3 to publish their Spock/Kirk slash fiction; it's just that the fanbase for these characters is much, much smaller.

As to whether a failure to respond is a silent "fuck off," well, that goes both ways. If a failure to respond is "fuck off," a subsequent posting can be a "fuck you." It wasn't in my case, since I believed that blanket permission existed--as we were up to over 100 versions by the time I published--but I did try to reach out as a nicety. Even with fair use doctrine, which I think this qualifies as, it's polite to ask. If he had said no, I wouldn't have published, but he said nothing at all, and given that feedback was still enabled on his profile at the time, I, along with everyone else that tried to contact him, had reason to believe that he was still reachable.



Really? Because this is the first time I've talked with you, over a year after I started publishing. I know you're an editor here--congrats on the win, by the way, well deserved--but most of the OGs post something for your invitationals a couple times a year, then once or twice more per year, at the most. Some leave a few comments on other people's work outside of your clique, but most only rarely. And, hey, we're all busy, and I know I'm absolutely awful about commenting myself, although I do mail back and forth with several writers.

But I'm also not the one coming onto the forums trying to put someone in their place.

This is, according to the counter, your 61st post on the forums in the eight years you've been a member here. Yeah, you're a prolific editor, which everyone on Lit should be grateful for. But outside of the people you edit for and the folks in your invitationals (which I assume have a Venn diagram that's basically an overlap), how often are you out among the hoi polloi?

I have been out here damned near every day trying to get fresh blood into the category, even people who write stories I'll probably dislike. I've been defending the category to the people who think it's nothing but trolls and incels, including at least one person in this discussion. I constantly offer words of encouragement and praise to authors whose only criteria is that I like their work, not that they bend the knee, going so far as to actively reach out to them to ask permission to highlight their works in my own.

So, I am truly sorry if I offended George. I have nothing but respect for him, and any slight was purely unintentional. If he asks me to take down my version, I will, albeit unhappily. But as to all the rest? That the community should feel shame for assuming that a work is fair game after dozens of reworks with no one saying a peep about those? Nah.

That's what a community does. It takes stories and tells and retells them, especially the ones that have great meaning to them. They've been doing that since the Greeks. Hell, there's a whole giant-ass website dedicated to fanfiction, and we even have a dedicated category for it here. If, as Cagivagurl did, he had posted a notice in his profile to not rework his stories, I doubt anyone would have.

Or at least they would have done the usual "clever" thing of renaming the characters and tweaking a few details, like everyone else has with their "honey, we need to talk" stories since nici. You know, since we're talking about OGs here.

If only you listened...


Shame really...

Cagivagurl

 

[NoTalentHack]

If only you listened...


Shame really...

Cagivagurl

Right back atcha.

 

[Gamblnluck]

I actually thought Anderson gave blanket approval for alternate endings as well. Once you see a dozen pop up, that became the mainstream opinion.
Like NTH, I thoroughly loved the original. But at the same time, I did not care for the ending.
If you look at the divergence point of the alternate endings, many begin about the point where the wife returns home, thoroughly fucked, unrepentant just announcing she is is 'back'. Adding to to the original insult of having just walked away from her husband was her attitude that her cheating was the high point of her sexual life, a memory she would treasure forever. Where does that leave her husband?
The reason the alternate stories break around that point is because from there on, Anderson's story begins to break away from the way most men think they would respond.
I was never tempted to write an alternate version to the ending. That is simply because I do not think I could do it justice. Mine might be a meld of other's.
I had no idea there were so many (over a hundred?) alternates. Guess I am gonna be spending a day or 2 finding and reading them again. And of course, I will start with the original.

 

[Gamblnluck]

If not more. If it has been 50 takes then that is absolutely insane. The whole problem with the original was the lazy/inconsistent character development. The author goes out or his way to describe the couple as completely devoted, their friends support and hate infidelity. Yet, on a night that was carefully planned to allow the husband and wife to reconnect intimately and emotionally while their kids were off at the grandparents, she ends up dancing with some famous football player, ignores her husband and ultimately conspires with her friends to distract the husband so she can sneak away and spend the night cheating on what was supposed to be their special night.

That was not lazy/inconsistent character development. That sudden unexplainable switch is the whole crux of the story.

 

[Gamblnluck]

These stories obviously have appeal for readers that are nursing a sense of deep grievance. They are angry at society, and in particular from the perception that men are getting screwed (figuratively). These stories arise from that anger.

Not at all. I don't harbor a grievance. I'm not afraid of zombies either but I might get excited watching a horror flick. I think about how I might react in a similar situation. The better the writing, the more intense the reaction. Anderson hit that part on the head with the first half to 2/3's of the story. Where he ended up is the point in contest.

 

[SimonDoom]

Not at all. I don't harbor a grievance. I'm not afraid of zombies either but I might get excited watching a horror flick. I think about how I might react in a similar situation. The better the writing, the more intense the reaction. Anderson hit that part on the head with the first half to 2/3's of the story. Where he ended up is the point in contest.

I have modified my opinion since I wrote that post. These stories strike me as odd, and I think they often perpetuate themes and ideas that are not reality-based, but I don't presume to know what goes on inside the heads of those who read or write the stories. I'm opposed to kink-shaming, and to be consistent about that I have to grant to people who like these stories the right to like them without judging them.

 

[NoTalentHack]

That was not lazy/inconsistent character development. That sudden unexplainable switch is the whole crux of the story.

Sort of? I mean, yes, it was, but that one switch by itself could have carried the whole story. There's a really good story in, "a guy's wife gets swept off her feet by a famous person while she and her husband are dancing in public," and the ramifications of that. But even the core conceit of the story (the conversation that George witnessed while on a trip) doesn't ring true for a lot of people. I related that part to my wife, and the look on her face was just this slow ramping up of disgust, ending with her saying, "What the actual fuck? Who would do something like that?"

But that's fine. One, maybe two, major things that require suspension of disbelief are where a lot of good stories start... but most writers limit themselves to that for a reason. Going from the base story concepts (Jim and Linda have a good marriage, are happy, still in love, with good friends), here are all the things that require suspension of disbelief in the story, roughly in order, if you treat the first person narration as accurate:

• Linda is immediately entranced by Mark because he's handsome, athletic and famous, to the point where she completely blocks her husband Jim out.
• On an occasion meant to make up for missing Valentine's Day.
• In front of all their friends.
• And treat him shabbily in public.
• And come back to Jim, then actively choose to sneak out with Marc, knowing that she'll hurt her husband.
• And enlists her friend, who is entirely on board.
• And all the other friends help, to a greater or lesser extent, after the fact.
• And all they tell Jim to suck it up, because it doesn't "really" mean anything.
• And they tell him that his and Linda's relationship is "the best" of theirs to try to convince him.
• Then Linda proceeds to treat the whole thing the next morning like it's just a blip, if that, starting with the Marc dropping her off in front of their house in his flashy car and still dressed for the previous night.
• And she tells Jim she's still just the same old her and really seems to believe it.
• And defends Marc, calling him a "good man" to the husband she's trying to reconcile with.
• And tells him it's the best sex she's ever had--again, while trying to reconcile with him--but later that she wouldn't trade a lifetime of nights with Marc for one with Jim.
• And keeps insisting that she didn't leave him because she came back.

I could keep going, but this isn't even halfway through page three of an eight page story! By the time we get to the family attorney named L. W. (and I really would like to know if that's intentional or one of the all-time great Freudian slips) telling him that women are just going to cheat with richer, more successful men, and whaddya gonna do about it; Linda thinking that wearing the same blue dress again not once, but twice, is a good idea; the whole thing with Ellen (how did L. W. know they were going to be there on that night?), and then later the reveal that Ellen was a prostitute hired by L. W., which would completely unravel literally everything that hiring Ellen did in the first place... It's a mess. The whole thing is a mess by then.

But even if you only focus on the way that Linda acted, you have to reconcile multiple incongruous viewpoints. On the very basic level, you have this woman that's supposed to be a good wife, good mom, etc. And then she cheats on her husband, leaving him in public. Fine. Like I said, a good story start.

Except then she comes home and her understanding of just how bad she fucked up is almost nonexistent. So she has to be either an idiot (which is incongruous with most other ideas) or delusional about how much fidelity matters to her husband (again, incongruous), or she's actively lying to and trying to manipulate Jim. Or, I'm sure there are other options, but between her initial behavior, the blue dress incidents, the way she lashes out at him because he can't get over it, how she expects him to help her get through it, etc. etc.... Yeah. It's no surprise that people tried to find their way out of that tangle however they could.

As to the notion that not understanding what George was going for is a fair criticism... not really? Ray Bradbury wrote Fahrenheit 451 as a story about how television would harm society, but pretty much everyone interpreted it as an anti-censorship story, and it frankly works better that way. Who's right there? Ray might have insisted he was, but if almost no one else agrees, well...

George may have been going for something different than what the readers saw, but what he created was this maddening puzzlebox instead. It's like I tell my kids: whether you accidentally drop a rock on someone's foot or throw it at their feet, it's the fact that you broke their foot that matters most; motives are usually secondary to results.

 

[Cagivagurl]

Sort of? I mean, yes, it was, but that one switch by itself could have carried the whole story. There's a really good story in, "a guy's wife gets swept off her feet by a famous person while she and her husband are dancing in public," and the ramifications of that. But even the core conceit of the story (the conversation that George witnessed while on a trip) doesn't ring true for a lot of people. I related that part to my wife, and the look on her face was just this slow ramping up of disgust, ending with her saying, "What the actual fuck? Who would do something like that?"

But that's fine. One, maybe two, major things that require suspension of disbelief are where a lot of good stories start... but most writers limit themselves to that for a reason. Going from the base story concepts (Jim and Linda have a good marriage, are happy, still in love, with good friends), here are all the things that require suspension of disbelief in the story, roughly in order, if you treat the first person narration as accurate:

• Linda is immediately entranced by Mark because he's handsome, athletic and famous, to the point where she completely blocks her husband Jim out.
• On an occasion meant to make up for missing Valentine's Day.
• In front of all their friends.
• And treat him shabbily in public.
• And come back to Jim, then actively choose to sneak out with Marc, knowing that she'll hurt her husband.
• And enlists her friend, who is entirely on board.
• And all the other friends help, to a greater or lesser extent, after the fact.
• And all they tell Jim to suck it up, because it doesn't "really" mean anything.
• And they tell him that his and Linda's relationship is "the best" of theirs to try to convince him.
• Then Linda proceeds to treat the whole thing the next morning like it's just a blip, if that, starting with the Marc dropping her off in front of their house in his flashy car and still dressed for the previous night.
• And she tells Jim she's still just the same old her and really seems to believe it.
• And defends Marc, calling him a "good man" to the husband she's trying to reconcile with.
• And tells him it's the best sex she's ever had--again, while trying to reconcile with him--but later that she wouldn't trade a lifetime of nights with Marc for one with Jim.
• And keeps insisting that she didn't leave him because she came back.

I could keep going, but this isn't even halfway through page three of an eight page story! By the time we get to the family attorney named L. W. (and I really would like to know if that's intentional or one of the all-time great Freudian slips) telling him that women are just going to cheat with richer, more successful men, and whaddya gonna do about it; Linda thinking that wearing the same blue dress again not once, but twice, is a good idea; the whole thing with Ellen (how did L. W. know they were going to be there on that night?), and then later the reveal that Ellen was a prostitute hired by L. W., which would completely unravel literally everything that hiring Ellen did in the first place... It's a mess. The whole thing is a mess by then.

But even if you only focus on the way that Linda acted, you have to reconcile multiple incongruous viewpoints. On the very basic level, you have this woman that's supposed to be a good wife, good mom, etc. And then she cheats on her husband, leaving him in public. Fine. Like I said, a good story start.

Except then she comes home and her understanding of just how bad she fucked up is almost nonexistent. So she has to be either an idiot (which is incongruous with most other ideas) or delusional about how much fidelity matters to her husband (again, incongruous), or she's actively lying to and trying to manipulate Jim. Or, I'm sure there are other options, but between her initial behavior, the blue dress incidents, the way she lashes out at him because he can't get over it, how she expects him to help her get through it, etc. etc.... Yeah. It's no surprise that people tried to find their way out of that tangle however they could.

As to the notion that not understanding what George was going for is a fair criticism... not really? Ray Bradbury wrote Fahrenheit 451 as a story about how television would harm society, but pretty much everyone interpreted it as an anti-censorship story, and it frankly works better that way. Who's right there? Ray might have insisted he was, but if almost no one else agrees, well...

George may have been going for something different than what the readers saw, but what he created was this maddening puzzlebox instead. It's like I tell my kids: whether you accidentally drop a rock on someone's foot or throw it at their feet, it's the fact that you broke their foot that matters most; motives are usually secondary to results.

The story doesn't have to ring true.... BTW... you are speaking for yourself. Not a lot of people. That's how rumours start. We quote spomething you overheard somebody saying to somebody else, that they heard from a friend of a friend...
What you said was only your opinion... Your view...

It's fiction...
The author can develop whatever scenario they want....
Characters in fiction are free to react... act as they see fit.
If you didn't like the story line. Then don't read it.

Cagivagurl.

 

[Cagivagurl]

I actually thought Anderson gave blanket approval for alternate endings as well. Once you see a dozen pop up, that became the mainstream opinion.
Like NTH, I thoroughly loved the original. But at the same time, I did not care for the ending.
If you look at the divergence point of the alternate endings, many begin about the point where the wife returns home, thoroughly fucked, unrepentant just announcing she is is 'back'. Adding to to the original insult of having just walked away from her husband was her attitude that her cheating was the high point of her sexual life, a memory she would treasure forever. Where does that leave her husband?
The reason the alternate stories break around that point is because from there on, Anderson's story begins to break away from the way most men think they would respond.
I was never tempted to write an alternate version to the ending. That is simply because I do not think I could do it justice. Mine might be a meld of other's.
I had no idea there were so many (over a hundred?) alternates. Guess I am gonna be spending a day or 2 finding and reading them again. And of course, I will start with the original.

Remember that you speak only for yourself.... Opinions, are exactly that...
The comment "Most men." Is not accurate or defensible.

I will also add.

Ignorance is no defence... It's never once worked in a court of law.
I use the court of law theme, only as a metaphor.
My real concern is with the unethical treatment George, had to endure.
The question was posed elsewhere. "If he was so concerned. Why didn't he get them taken down?"
Because it would have become a fulltime job, and he got sick of it. Seeing rewrite after rewrite, posting day after day.
At first, I think he was so shocked that people would be so rude... He hoped it would be over quickly. Not go on and on forever...

Cagivagurl

 

[Gamblnluck]

he question was posed elsewhere. "If he was so concerned. Why didn't he get them taken down?"
Because it would have become a fulltime job, and he got sick of it.

So telling the moderators would not be enough? I would have thought that kind of flag would be.
To me calling a story an alternative ending would be far better than plagiarizing the story. All one would have to do would be to change the names and a few pertinent details. And not give Mr Anderson the credit due his own story.
Of course, readers would immediately flame (deservedly so) those stories.

I wrote an alternative once. Not only did I get the author's permission, and gave him credit at the beginning, but he got an advanced read. I wrote a single sequel which went down in flames, but once again, I had the author's permission.

 

[Cagivagurl]

So telling the moderators would not be enough? I would have thought that kind of flag would be.
To me calling a story an alternative ending would be far better than plagiarizing the story. All one would have to do would be to change the names and a few pertinent details. And not give Mr Anderson the credit due his own story.
Of course, readers would immediately flame (deservedly so) those stories.

I wrote an alternative once. Not only did I get the author's permission, and gave him credit at the beginning, but he got an advanced read. I wrote a single sequel which went down in flames, but once again, I had the author's permission.

I think the site owners try to limit unauthorised rewrites, but don't catch all of them.
They are helpful, I did have one experience with another writer who rewrote one of my stories without permission. The moderators, after I complained removed it immediately.
George, simply got tired of constantly having to complain day after day. There was the added complication. He stepped away from the site for a long time.

You did the right thing, and should be applauded for handling it politely.

Cagivagurl