For Those Of You Who Still Doubt Me

[luvsubbbbb]

geez.....now i have seen everything!!.....you people here are "weirded out" by the capitalization of pronoun thing?.......how fragile of you, Etoile!.......where i come from people are encouraged to be themselves.......BDSM is supposed to be a place where all persons are made to feel comfortable......if i choose to upper or lowercase my name or that of any pronoun, the self-proclaimed moderators should stiffen both their upper and lower lips and survive the ordeal graciously......

chat room conventions?....an invitation to play?...give me a break, people.......i dont loiter around chatrooms...and i have no interest in so-called cyberplay ::rolls eyes::

maybe my disillusioned sister syren was right........it seems to me that people here have little better to do than pick other people's nits........

rake me over the coals for bastardizing the english language, and i will accept your criticism....but do not dare accuse me of employing chat room phrasiology or using the caps as an invitation to "play"........(whatever THAT is supposed to mean).......i am a member of several other BDSM lists, and that is how most of them write when they post.......Dom and sub alike.....

(methinks me found some holier than thou people.....yuck......its not like i don't like snobs, i just don't appreciate it when they are so narrowminded, critical, and judgemental.......)

oh well.......now that i have said my piece, if i am not accepted around here, so be it.....

but having said that, since i do not find it unbearable to tow your line, i conveyed my words to you all honestly without resorting to the caps that apparently you find so offensive......i guess it is the subbie in me that tells me that this battle is not worth fighting for...........

so......i am sorry that my style of writing does not find favor in your eyes......be well......

 

[cymbidia]

Just what we need, the BDSM forum's very own drama queen.

 

[CarolineOh]

I've thought about this, and I have reflected on the fact that the people here with the most real life experience are generally the ones with the strongest aversion to that sort of capitalization. For my own part it makes me uncomfortable, and after much thought, I can articulate why.
Using capitalization in that matter, to make a differentiation between dominants and submissives, is an acting out of a specific d/s paradigm, and for that reason I don't consider it to just be an invitation to play, but it actually is a form of play, in my opinion. To me , it imposes upon me a d/s protocol that I have not agreed to accept.
Having said that, I certainly feel you are free to use it if you wish, although I think you will find it an impediment to getting the fullest benefit of discussion here.

 

[WillowPuss]

I belonged (very briefly) to a group where that was actively encouraged ... and posts without it were slightly frowned upon as I did not seem to be giving the Dom/me the deference they were due. It used to take me forever to do a post, as I would type away and then have to go back and carefully alter every pronoun I had used ... it got to be a chore in posting anything!

I for one, am glad that it is not expected here, and that those with years more experience than me are not adverse to answering questions that they must have heard dozens of times before.

luvsubbbbb, you must form your own opinions, of course, but I got heartily sick of using the lower case i and having to do the double lwtter pronoun. It just didn't feel right ... having to concentrate on getting something alien (to me) in my posts took away (for me) the joy of posting.

 

[luvsubbbbb]

CarolineOh, and Willowpuss, thanks for your kind words........its funny that you say that about having to go back and correct punctuation to "expected norms".......having gotten so used to communicating in this matter with the BDSM community for the past 8 years, i find it extremely tedious when i write my family or other such "vanilla perverts".......i keep having to edit out all my capped "You"s and "Your"s.....etc.......but i leave the "i"s alone, tho.......i just pretend that i am just too lazy to type in anything but lowercase letters.......::smiles::

 

[BBD]

It's always been my impression that the use of caps in the way we're talking about here is a chat room convention. The only lists I've seen it on are those started by people who were originally chatroom participants. I myself have/do use caps that way on occasion depending upon with whom I am dealing. It became a habit at one point that I went to some lengths to break myself out of.

Why? Because I'm an anal SOB.
I hate misspellings and grammar mistakes, even when I'm the one making the occasional error.

So anyway, I've added my (My ) two cents now, and I still have little knowledge of what was behind this thread originally. And that's okay, 'cause I think the discussion that sprang from it is most likely more interesting anyway...especially the definitions. Thanks for sharing those, cym, and the link. It'll save me some time in the future.

 

[Etoile]

originally posted by luvsubbbbb
geez.....now i have seen everything!!.....you people here are "weirded out" by the capitalization of pronoun thing?.......how fragile of you, Etoile!.......where i come from people are encouraged to be themselves.......BDSM is supposed to be a place where all persons are made to feel comfortable......if i choose to upper or lowercase my name or that of any pronoun, the self-proclaimed moderators should stiffen both their upper and lower lips and survive the ordeal graciously......

You don't know me, please don't presume I'm fragile. On the contrary, I have been a proofreader and copy editor for some time now. A few capitalization games aren't going to rattle me enough to be called fragile. I said nothing about chat rooms or "play" - so I really was just picking on your grammar! (Not your nits, though, I've had breakfast already. )

On a less personal note - I'm not speaking about anybody here, just in general - I'm so used to seeing the lowercase "i" from my lazy friends that it doesn't catch my eye anymore. What does surprise me, though, is seeing uppercase pronouns from tops. Mine doesn't use them when we exchange e-mail, and so I'm not used to them...but when I see them my mind kind of goes "whoa! what's that!" I guess I like what CarolineOh said: "To me , it imposes upon me a d/s protocol that I have not agreed to accept." If it were something my top and I did, that would be one thing, but I'm just not used to it from other people.

 

[Sandia]

luv

Thank you for posting. I hope you'll like it here.

As far as cap's are concerned, as far as I understand it, you're free to use them if you like.

My comments before were not intended as a criticism, merely as an attempt to explain (or guess) why some folks are opposed to it.


Sandia.

 

[siren101]

~smiles to her delightfully well-mannered, and deeply-respectful bro~

(although...when one is "poked in the eye" it's difficult to maintain the respect one is used to giving)

I begin to wonder, about the real life credentials of SOME of those who DON'T use capitals in a print medium, to indicate the respect with which one holds, the rare treasure that a genuine Dominant is.

"I'm more real-life-experienced than you..therefore I don't use capitals"

Bah!!

I wish there was a means to test the "real-life experience" and D/s aptitude of the "holier than thou," hey bro? ~smile~

It's a shock, isn't it, bro!...one comes in here expecting to find kinship for one's submissive soul!
Methinks we might fail a certain Mistress' test, if we find this fulfilling, and become comfortable residents here ~smile~

I am NOT suggesting that there are no genuine D/s souls here as members. I just don't believe you will find them posting so often.

~laughs~ And yes, dear and wonderful bro..i have to weed out caps from my "secular" communications too.

What does exercising egos in an internet forum, have to do with being immersed in real life D/s?
The concept is useful as a halfway house. but not to live in one.
I feel certain, that i will eternally remain a forum virgin.

It only took me one post, to begin to wonder if this conversational "chatty" forum was more about a couple of egos, than D/s.

~her eyes and smile twinkling, at the mayhem and indignation this post should evoke~

My soul hopes to bask in your company again soon, bro.

 

[Dragon Dreamer]

Re: ~smiles to her delightfully well-mannered, and deeply-respectful bro~

(although...when one is "poked in the eye" it's difficult to maintain the respect one is used to giving)

~her eyes and smile twinkling, at the mayhem and indignation this post should evoke~

That's mature. No mayhem, no indignation, I really couldn't give a rat's ass if you call me Sir, sir, shithead, whatever. This statement makes it absolutely clear, along with most of the rest of your post, that your sole intention is to stir up shit and cause trouble. Why? Because certain people chose not to believe some story you related to the list? So what, that's life, buy a helmet and get over it. Welcome to the internet, where 75% of the people are bullshit artists and the other 25% are going to be doubtful of stories you tell until they get to know you.

This kind of immature stunt pulling is never going to get you that respect in anyone's eyes, whether they are into bdsm or not.

 

[cymbidia]

Re: luv

As far as cap's are concerned, as far as I understand it, you're free to use them if you like.

Anyone can do whatever they like in terms of caps here.

However, we do not, as a forum, use the awkward chat room conventions of W/we and Y/you and the like. Never have. Not our way.

If you choose to use such constructions, despite our casual community standard of not doing it here, we will probably continue to look on you as one looks on a pet who poops on the living room carpet. We'll see you as someone who embarrasses us all because you're kinda, well, slow to understand the way things are done ***here***.

If you don't like the way things are done here, please feel free to leave and spend your online time elsewhere.

I trust this clears up the subject of chat room conventions with regard to capitalization in this forum at this time.

 

[luvsubbbbb]

cymbidia

QUOTE: Originally posted by cymbidia:

"Anyone can do whatever they like in terms of caps here.

However, we do not, as a forum, use the awkward chat room conventions of W/we and Y/you and the like. Never have. Not our way."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------



cymbidia.......i have submitted to the group norm.....even in my "drama queen post" as you called it, i did so.....what i objected to was your referring to it as a chat room convention.......or "play"....it is not...it is an accepted BDSM convention for most.....i have been writing that way for 8 years now..........and i rarely go into chatrooms.....i find it is MOST prevalent in bulletin and discussion board postings.......MSN and Yahoo as well.......almost everyone in the scene that i know writes that way..........and they are far from "players"..............

but to me........ the content of the postings are more important than the style........soooooooo.......since i am a submissive, i will stop "beating" this subject to death.........and get on to more constructive topics......

 

[Sandia]

luv,
we could use another drama queen. The more the merrier, I always say...

 

[Etoile]

Oh boy oh boy. Lots to respond to here.

originally posted by siren101
I begin to wonder, about the real life credentials of SOME of those who DON'T use capitals in a print medium, to indicate the respect with which one holds, the rare treasure that a genuine Dominant is.

Once again I feel like these are inappropriate assumptions. First of all, "real life credentials" have nothing to do with it. What I have or haven't done in real life is my own business, and not that of anybody here. Also, I feel it is entirely inappropriate to come up with any beliefs about a person's respect for another based on their damn capitalization. Just because I follow standard English rules does NOT mean I don't respect my top. That is preposterous, absurd, and a whole bunch of other similar adjectives. The very idea gets me so annoyed I can't even think about it.

originally posted by siren101
I am NOT suggesting that there are no genuine D/s souls here as members. I just don't believe you will find them posting so often.

Therefore you are suggesting that the rest of are not genuine? What gives you the right to decide this? Please don't DARE make any assumptions about me, ever.

originally posted by luvsubbbbb
but to me........ the content of the postings are more important than the style........soooooooo.......since i am a submissive, i will stop "beating" this subject to death.........and get on to more constructive topics......

I can't speak for anybody else, but this doesn't seem like the place for that kind of thing. You are expecting us to be grateful for your "submission." Hey, I'm a fucking submissive too, but there's a difference between a submissive and a doormat. I daresay it sounds to me like you're trying to top from the bottom here. "Oh, look at me, I'm so meek I will just leave it all alone." I agree with you that this has been beaten to death (the horse stopped twitching long ago), but I'm almost offended that you say you'll drop the topic because you're a submissive. Drop it because it's ready to be dropped, for fuck's sake.

 

[luvsubbbbb]

I can't speak for anybody else, but this doesn't seem like the place for that kind of thing. You are expecting us to be grateful for your "submission." Hey, I'm a fucking submissive too, but there's a difference between a submissive and a doormat. I daresay it sounds to me like you're trying to top from the bottom here. "Oh, look at me, I'm so meek I will just leave it all alone." I agree with you that this has been beaten to death (the horse stopped twitching long ago), but I'm almost offended that you say you'll drop the topic because you're a submissive. Drop it because it's ready to be dropped, for fuck's sake. [/B]

Etoile...i do not know what to say...you obviously missed the humorous point of that line.....i was saying that as a submissive, i shouldnt be the one doing the beating......

 

[Etoile]

originally posted by luvsubbbbb
Etoile...i do not know what to say...you obviously missed the humorous point of that line.....i was saying that as a submissive, i shouldnt be the one doing the beating......

Yes, obviously I did miss the point. The rest of your post hadn't seemed meant in jest and there were no smilies anywhere, so I didn't realize you were making a joke. I'm sorry for responding so viciously; I'm glad to hear you didn't mean it the way I understood it.

 

[James Blandings]

Re: cymbidia

QUOTE: Originally posted by cymbidia:

"Anyone can do whatever they like in terms of caps here.

However, we do not, as a forum, use the awkward chat room conventions of W/we and Y/you and the like. Never have. Not our way."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------



cymbidia.......i have submitted to the group norm.....even in my "drama queen post" as you called it, i did so.....what i objected to was your referring to it as a chat room convention.......or "play"....it is not...it is an accepted BDSM convention for most.....i have been writing that way for 8 years now..........and i rarely go into chatrooms.....i find it is MOST prevalent in bulletin and discussion board postings.......MSN and Yahoo as well.......almost everyone in the scene that i know writes that way..........and they are far from "players"..............

but to me........ the content of the postings are more important than the style........soooooooo.......since i am a submissive, i will stop "beating" this subject to death.........and get on to more constructive topics......

I have to tell you, that in my experience, and I have been around the BDSM scene for about 30 years, I never saw anyone do that capitalization thing before people started doing it in chatrooms. Of course, before that there wasn't much in the way of written communication anyway.
My own view is that 1.) It is a form of play. Some people don't give a damn about the d/s aspect of BDSM, and feel that the capitalization convention is a way of rubbing their face in something they are not into, and 2.) I don't believe that sort of protocol is appropriate in discussion situations, because it calls into qustion whether the sub is giving their own opinion, or just telling us what their dominant wants them to say.

 

[Etoile]

originally posted by James Blandings
I have to tell you, that in my experience, and I have been around the BDSM scene for about 30 years, I never saw anyone do that capitalization thing before people started doing it in chatrooms. Of course, before that there wasn't much in the way of written communication anyway.

I read the first sentence there and I was about to say "well hey, there was no Internet (as we know it) thirty years ago!" But then I read on and saw your point about not much in the way of written communication.

Which made me wonder - how long have BDSM publications been around? I know there are fetish mags and things like that, and while I haven't ever seen the Y/you styling in them I figure it's always possible. (I'm only 21 years old myself, so forgive me for not having access to such history!)

 

[James Blandings]

I read the first sentence there and I was about to say "well hey, there was no Internet (as we know it) thirty years ago!" But then I read on and saw your point about not much in the way of written communication.

Which made me wonder - how long have BDSM publications been around? I know there are fetish mags and things like that, and while I haven't ever seen the Y/you styling in them I figure it's always possible. (I'm only 21 years old myself, so forgive me for not having access to such history!)

Well, there have been SM themed porn mags as long as there have been printing presses, I guess, but as far as publications put out by and for people actually in the scene, I think the earliest one would be John Willie's Bizarre, which came out sporadically in the 1950s. You can get a set of the complete reprints from Taschen Pub., which is well worth it if you are interested in BDSM history. It's interesting to see how much has not changed in almost 50 years.
I'm not sure how long The Drummer has been around, at least the late 70s, covering gay SM. There was also a mag called Dungeon Master in the 70s as I recall. As for het-oriented magazines, the S&M Utopian Guardian started up around then, I think. I know it was available in the Midwest in the early 80s and I think had been out on the West Coast before that.
And no, none of those mags did any weird capitalization stuff.

 

[cymbidia]

And no, none of those mags did any weird capitalization stuff.

~smirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirksmirk~

Oh.
Sorry.

I meant...

b. ~smirksmirksmirk~

 

[James Blandings]

Here's a link to the Taschen Books website. They have lots of great BDSM themed stuff.

http://www.taschen.com/pages/en/catalogue/books/adults_only/new/index/1.htm