For Those Who Might Be Wondering Why We Might Be In Ukraine

[RandyRebecca]

A country with a Jewish President

Who cares what his religion is? Hatred of "the other" can happen among anyone of a right-wing mentality.

Adolf Hitler's best friend, Ernst Roehm, was a homosexual man. That didn't stop Roehm being the leader of the SA brownshirts, and later getting executed on Hitler and Himmler's orders after the Night of the Long Knives in 1934. Homosexuals (and LGBTs) ended up in camps, including being victims of the Holocaust. Unlike other groups who were victims of the Holocaust, most LGBTs were criminalized after the war too.

Yes, they've failed. You still supported them.

Ukraine have failed. Their mission was to return to the 2013 borders. That would be victory for them.

Russia's victory isn't to conquer the whole of Ukraine, but to landlock Ukraine, or at very least have more territory than before the invasion started. Look at the map. Before the invasion, Ukraine only lost control of some of the Donbass and of Crimea. Nothing else. Russia now controls the Black Sea coast east of the Dnieper river. If they go west of the Dnieper and bridge to Transnistria/Moldova, Ukraine is landlocked. Ukraine as a landlocked state would be of much reduced geopolitical importance, and then there's the hostile neonazi battalions in Ukraine who would hate that very strongly. Russia would be better leaving them for the EU to deal with, not take over the whole of Ukraine and hold down hardened anti-Russian opposition in western Ukraine.

These are the objective facts. Ask who is closer to what would be "victory". And ask who benefits more if the war ended today with a peace treaty on the current territorial lines.

 

[ll74]

Who cares what his religion is? Hatred of "the other" can happen among anyone of a right-wing mentality.

Adolf Hitler's best friend, Ernst Roehm, was a homosexual man. That didn't stop Roehm being the leader of the SA brownshirts, and later getting executed on Hitler and Himmler's orders after the Night of the Long Knives in 1934. Homosexuals (and LGBTs) ended up in camps, including being victims of the Holocaust. Unlike other groups who were victims of the Holocaust, most LGBTs were criminalized after the war too.


Ukraine have failed. Their mission was to return to the 2013 borders. That would be victory for them.

Russia's victory isn't to conquer the whole of Ukraine, but to landlock Ukraine, or at very least have more territory than before the invasion started. Look at the map. Russia controls the Black Sea coast east of the Dnieper river. If they go west of the Dnieper and bridge to Transnistria/Moldova, Ukraine is landlocked. Ukraine as a landlocked state would be of much reduced geopolitical importance, and then there's the hostile neonazi battalions who would hate that very strongly. Russia would be better leaving them for the EU to deal with, not take over the whole of Ukraine and hold down hardened anti-Russian opposition in western Ukraine.

These are the objective facts. Ask who is closer to what would be "victory". And ask who benefits more if the war ended today with a peace treaty on the current territorial lines.

The war was started by Russia. Their objective is the only one that has failed. Stopping them would be a successful defense of their attack.

But I know you have selective memory. Forgetting Ukraine's independence from the USSR for example.

 

[RandyRebecca]

The war was started by Russia.

Who started the war is not important when it comes to one's position in the war, or it shouldn't be. Technically, the Union started the civil war against the Confederacy, refusing to let the slave states just secede in peace. Does that mean that the Union was the bad side in the war? Hell no.

Their objective is the only one that has failed. Stopping them would be a successful defense of their attack.

Why are you closing your eyes to reality? Ukrainian politicians, and NATO politicians, have hardly denied that victory for Ukraine is a return to the 2013 borders, i.e. the return of all of the Donbass and of Crimea to Ukrainian control. Do you think that is going to happen?

But I know you have selective memory. Forgetting Ukraine's independence from the USSR for example.

Like how the Ukrainians in 1991 voted against the Soviet breakup, you mean? Yeah, why would people there NOT want to go from a world superpower to a middle income developing country? Why would they NOT want to go from full employment, secure housing, low rents, public services etc. to mass unemployment, wage cuts, raising rents, mass alcoholism and the biggest collapse in living standards in peace time since the Roman Empire's collapse etc.?

 

[ll74]

Who started the war is not important when it comes to one's position in the war. Technically, the Union started the civil war against the Confederacy, refusing to let the slave states just secede in peace. Does that mean that the Union was the bad side in the war? Hell no.

They invaded with an objective. Before that, they were the only ones concocting an actual objective for war. Defending that invasion was the only objective of Ukraine. And of course, the 2014 borders were considered the start of the war to them.

The civil war seems to be a go to false equivalency.

Why are you closing your eyes to reality? Ukrainian politicians, and NATO politicians, have hardly denied that victory for Ukraine is a return to the 2013 borders, i.e. the return of all of the Donbass and of Crimea to Ukrainian control. Do you think that is going to happen?

Defending their country is a victory.

Like how the Ukrainians in 1991 voted against the Soviet breakup, you mean? Yeah, why would people there NOT want to go from a world superpower to a middle income developing country? Why would they NOT want to go from full employment, secure housing, low rents, public services etc. to mass unemployment, wage cuts, raising rents, mass alcoholism and the biggest collapse in living standards in peace time since the Roman Empire's collapse etc.?

Ukraine unanimously voted for independence in 1991...over 90% in favor.

 

[dkovic77]

When war is profitable and large companies that stand to profit from it are allowed to buy influence in Congress and the White House...

And when the very legislators and bureaucrats who approve war, and implement the spending associated with it, can purchase stock in the companies supplying the hardware so they can profit too...

You can expect to have a lot of wars... perhaps even on a continuous basis.

And you are coming to this understanding now?

Where has your head been all this time?

 

[Rightguide]

Ukraine Opts For More “Cowbell” As Desperation Sets In​

By Larry Johnson Nov. 27, 2023 7:00 am


Despite the inclement weather, Russian soldiers are advancing steadily in Avdeevka and forcing the retreat and surrender of hundreds of Ukrainian troops from an area they have held since 2014. There is a graphic, disturbing video on Odysee (I can’t figure out how to embed it here) that shows elements of the AFU 47th Brigade bugging out of their trenches while being shelled and shot by Russian forces.

Ukraine’s reported plan to draft as many as 20,000 prospective candidates for cannon fodder is being condemned by members of Zelensky’s party, who believe this is a meaningless gesture that will not advance Ukraine’s military fortunes. Mariana Bezuglaya, the deputy head of the Ukrainian parliament’s security, defense and intelligence committee, stated:

The commander-in-chief of the Ukrainian Armed Forces has been unable to provide a [strategic] plan for 2024,” Bezuglaya wrote in a post on her Facebook page, referring to Ukraine’s top military commander, General Valery Zaluzhny. The general has absolutely no concept of further conflict, she claimed, adding that he has no plan for any type of warfare, “either large or small… asymmetrical or symmetrical.”

Zelensky’s efforts to hide the staggering losses of Ukrainian troops took a major hit when Ukrainian TV Channel 1+1 reported that the AFU’s casualties so far were 1,126,652 KIAs and MIAs. Andrei Martyanov noted that Zelensky’s office moved quickly to force Channel 1+1 to retract the story, but the damage was done. The horse left the barn. Closing the barn door does not put the horse back in its stall.

More here: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/11/ukraine-opts-more-cowbell-as-desperation-sets/

Meanwhile back at the ranch, The Biden administration and the Germans are telling Zelensky to negotiate. They know the truth.

 

[ll74]

Ukraine Opts For More “Cowbell” As Desperation Sets In​

By Larry Johnson Nov. 27, 2023 7:00 am


Despite the inclement weather, Russian soldiers are advancing steadily in Avdeevka and forcing the retreat and surrender of hundreds of Ukrainian troops from an area they have held since 2014. There is a graphic, disturbing video on Odysee (I can’t figure out how to embed it here) that shows elements of the AFU 47th Brigade bugging out of their trenches while being shelled and shot by Russian forces.

Ukraine’s reported plan to draft as many as 20,000 prospective candidates for cannon fodder is being condemned by members of Zelensky’s party, who believe this is a meaningless gesture that will not advance Ukraine’s military fortunes. Mariana Bezuglaya, the deputy head of the Ukrainian parliament’s security, defense and intelligence committee, stated:


Zelensky’s efforts to hide the staggering losses of Ukrainian troops took a major hit when Ukrainian TV Channel 1+1 reported that the AFU’s casualties so far were 1,126,652 KIAs and MIAs. Andrei Martyanov noted that Zelensky’s office moved quickly to force Channel 1+1 to retract the story, but the damage was done. The horse left the barn. Closing the barn door does not put the horse back in its stall.

More here: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/11/ukraine-opts-more-cowbell-as-desperation-sets/

Meanwhile back at the ranch, The Biden administration and the Germans are telling Zelensky to negotiate. They know the truth.

Well that certainly sounds like a serious analysis.

 

[Rightguide]

If you watched the video, or had any idea of the Montreux Convention you might understand, but you don't, and I am not surprised.

Here is what you don't understand:

How The United States And Its NATO Allies Sabotaged Peace Between Russia And Ukraine​

By Larry Johnson Nov. 15, 2023 7:00 am

We now know that the United States played the primary role in sabotaging the March 29, 2022 tentative peace agreement between Russia and Ukraine thanks to the recently published article by Hajo Funke and Harald Kujat, HOW THE CHANCE WAS LOST FOR A PEACE SETTLEMENT OF THE UKRAINE WAR — AND THE WEST WANTED TO CONTINUE THE WAR INSTEAD. The United States persuaded its NATO allies that pursuing the war against Russia, using Ukraine as a proxy, offered a legitimate opportunity to destroy Russia. You want a definition of evil? This is it. Instead of helping end the war between Russia and Ukraine, the United States and its NATO puppets condemned hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian soldiers to death in a war with Russia they could not win.

In the course of strong arming Ukraine’s Zelensky into rejecting the peace agreement, the West prepared and launched a propaganda campaign that claimed that Ukrainian military forces defeated the Russian forces and compelled them to retreat. It was a lie. As you will read in the timeline below, Putin ordered the withdrawal of Russian forces starting on April 1, 2022 as a good faith gesture about Russia’s seriousness in complying with the 29 March Istanbul Agreement.

Chalk this up as one more massive war crime by the United States and NATO. They are accessories to murder. I have summarized the timeline presented in the Funke/Kujat article if you do not have time to read it in its entirety. I also am republishing their piece for your convenience. All of the death and destruction experienced in Ukraine and Russia could have been avoided. But the West was intent on dethroning Putin and carving up Russia. Once you understand this point I think you will appreciate that Putin and his Generals are no longer of a mind to give the West the benefit of the doubt. Destroying NATO’s designs on Ukraine is now their chief aim in my view.

More here: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/11/how-united-states-its-nato-allies-sabotaged-peace/

Read the entire article. Biden gambled in March of 2022 and now is quietly calling for negotiations.

 

[dkovic77]

Here is what you don't understand:

How The United States And Its NATO Allies Sabotaged Peace Between Russia And Ukraine​

By Larry Johnson Nov. 15, 2023 7:00 am

We now know that the United States played the primary role in sabotaging the March 29, 2022 tentative peace agreement between Russia and Ukraine thanks to the recently published article by Hajo Funke and Harald Kujat, HOW THE CHANCE WAS LOST FOR A PEACE SETTLEMENT OF THE UKRAINE WAR — AND THE WEST WANTED TO CONTINUE THE WAR INSTEAD. The United States persuaded its NATO allies that pursuing the war against Russia, using Ukraine as a proxy, offered a legitimate opportunity to destroy Russia. You want a definition of evil? This is it. Instead of helping end the war between Russia and Ukraine, the United States and its NATO puppets condemned hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian soldiers to death in a war with Russia they could not win.

In the course of strong arming Ukraine’s Zelensky into rejecting the peace agreement, the West prepared and launched a propaganda campaign that claimed that Ukrainian military forces defeated the Russian forces and compelled them to retreat. It was a lie. As you will read in the timeline below, Putin ordered the withdrawal of Russian forces starting on April 1, 2022 as a good faith gesture about Russia’s seriousness in complying with the 29 March Istanbul Agreement.

Chalk this up as one more massive war crime by the United States and NATO. They are accessories to murder. I have summarized the timeline presented in the Funke/Kujat article if you do not have time to read it in its entirety. I also am republishing their piece for your convenience. All of the death and destruction experienced in Ukraine and Russia could have been avoided. But the West was intent on dethroning Putin and carving up Russia. Once you understand this point I think you will appreciate that Putin and his Generals are no longer of a mind to give the West the benefit of the doubt. Destroying NATO’s designs on Ukraine is now their chief aim in my view.

More here: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/11/how-united-states-its-nato-allies-sabotaged-peace/

Read the entire article. Biden gambled in March of 2022 and now is quietly calling for negotiations.

All of this death could have been avoided…if they just let Russians roll on in.

Do you see why your sources are always a joke?

Putin gambled the west wouldn’t back up Ukraine, he was wrong.

 

[Lazaran]

Here is what you don't understand:

How The United States And Its NATO Allies Sabotaged Peace Between Russia And Ukraine​

By Larry Johnson Nov. 15, 2023 7:00 am

We now know that the United States played the primary role in sabotaging the March 29, 2022 tentative peace agreement between Russia and Ukraine thanks to the recently published article by Hajo Funke and Harald Kujat, HOW THE CHANCE WAS LOST FOR A PEACE SETTLEMENT OF THE UKRAINE WAR — AND THE WEST WANTED TO CONTINUE THE WAR INSTEAD. The United States persuaded its NATO allies that pursuing the war against Russia, using Ukraine as a proxy, offered a legitimate opportunity to destroy Russia. You want a definition of evil? This is it. Instead of helping end the war between Russia and Ukraine, the United States and its NATO puppets condemned hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian soldiers to death in a war with Russia they could not win.

In the course of strong arming Ukraine’s Zelensky into rejecting the peace agreement, the West prepared and launched a propaganda campaign that claimed that Ukrainian military forces defeated the Russian forces and compelled them to retreat. It was a lie. As you will read in the timeline below, Putin ordered the withdrawal of Russian forces starting on April 1, 2022 as a good faith gesture about Russia’s seriousness in complying with the 29 March Istanbul Agreement.

Chalk this up as one more massive war crime by the United States and NATO. They are accessories to murder. I have summarized the timeline presented in the Funke/Kujat article if you do not have time to read it in its entirety. I also am republishing their piece for your convenience. All of the death and destruction experienced in Ukraine and Russia could have been avoided. But the West was intent on dethroning Putin and carving up Russia. Once you understand this point I think you will appreciate that Putin and his Generals are no longer of a mind to give the West the benefit of the doubt. Destroying NATO’s designs on Ukraine is now their chief aim in my view.

More here: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/11/how-united-states-its-nato-allies-sabotaged-peace/

Read the entire article. Biden gambled in March of 2022 and now is quietly calling for negotiations.

Remember, just prior to Putin and Russia invading Ukraine, when Putin and Russia LIED about invading Ukraine???

See also:

https://www.politifact.com/videos/watch-2022-lie-year/

But Putin and Russia should have been trusted to negotiate in good faith over a "peace plan" involving Ukraine ???



RussiaGuide

 

[Rightguide]

All of this death could have been avoided…if they just let Russians roll on in.

Do you see why your sources are always a joke?

Putin gambled the west wouldn’t back up Ukraine, he was wrong.

All of it could have been avoided if Joe Biden had allowed Zelensky to negotiate in March of 2022, like he wanted to do. You big dummy.

 

[Rightguide]

Ukraine War Update: Russia Got Richer While West Shed Trillions of Dollars – US Lost $5.9 Trillion​

By Jim Hoft Aug. 17, 2023 10:04 am

https://twitter.com/x/status/1691836270081630718

https://t.co/Q25EFnbs4f

The Business Insider reported:

Russians got richer last year even as the war in Ukraine raged on, while the US and Europe lost trillions of dollars, UBS reported.
Russia added $600 billion of total wealth, the Swiss bank found in its annual Global Wealth Report, published Tuesday.
The number of Russian millionaires also rose by about 56,000 to 408,000 in 2022, while the number of ultra-high-net-worth individuals — people worth over $50 million — jumped by nearly 4,500.
But the US lost more wealth than any other country last year, shedding $5.9 trillion, while North America and Europe combined got $10.9 trillion poorer, UBS reported.

More here: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/08/ukraine-war-update-russia-got-richer-while-west/

How could this be? The US is living under a mountain of Democrat propaganda, that's how.

 

[Rightguide]

Ukraine Retreats From Key Areas In Donetsk While Kiev Is Wracked With Growing Turmoil​

By Larry Johnson Nov. 29, 2023 7:00 am

The map above shows two key areas — Avdiivka (which is about the red dot titled “winter storm) and Kleshcheyevka (which is on the western outskirts of Bakhmut that sits just below the tag “Museum”) — that Ukraine has been clinging to tenaciously for more than 9 years. The news is not good for Ukraine. Its troops retreated from these areas today under heavy pressure from Russian forces. This should dispel the nonsense that there is some sort of stalemate. Nope. Russia is moving forward and Ukraine is falling back.

The following video provides dramatic footage of Russian soldiers attacking entrenched Ukrainians and rooting them out — i.e., killing, capturing and forcing a retreat.

In addition to the fighting on the frontlines, there are reports of escalating political intrigue, mayhem and attempted “murder” back in Kiev. We have been monitoring the power struggle between President Zelensky and General Zaluzhny, with rumors swirling that one or the other will be forced out before the end of the year. Today we have a confirmed report that someone poisoned the wife of Ukraine’s Intelligence Chief, Budanov.

“The information about the poisoning spread by the Ukrainian media “corresponds to reality”, he said in response to an enquiry from the Ukrainian branch of Radio Liberty. The wife of the Ukrainian intelligence chief “is now undergoing treatment, which is being completed,” Yusov added, promising to release more information later. Later, the former head of Ukraine’s foreign intelligence service, Valeriy Kondratyuk, told Ukrainian Radio NV that Budanova’s poisoning was “caused by arsenic and mercury”.

More here: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/11/ukraine-retreats-key-areas-donetsk-while-kiev-is/

The future of Ukraine indeed looks grim.

 

[ll74]

The future of Ukraine indeed looks grim.

That is all you ever have to say

 

[Lazaran]

RussiaGuide should put The Gateway Pundit on ignore.



RussiaGuide

 

[dkovic77]

All of it could have been avoided if Joe Biden had allowed Zelensky to negotiate in March of 2022, like he wanted to do. You big dummy.

Oh negotiation (you mean bend over and take it- I see how that is your style), like Obama already said didn’t work the first time. (That why your boy keeps confusing Barak and Joe??)

But just like you and the rest of the MAGA bullies, all routing for the totalitarian Putin to get all he wants regardless of what democracies have to be trampled. Your group didn’t worry about trampling on the democratic election results from 2020 as your brains are so small you can’t seem to EVER find 2020 voter fraud aside from those on the right. (Oh there was that mayor race..that one race…compare to the countless folks who were dead who voted…)

 

[Rightguide]

That is all you ever have to say

Because that's all there is to see at this juncture.

 

[ll74]

Because that's all there is to see at this juncture.

That is all you want to see. Plenty of other perspectives are out in the public sphere and have even been offered here. You're a broken record

 

[Rightguide]

MSM Lifts the Veil on the Undeclared Ukrainian Civil War Between President Zelensky and General Zaluzhny​

By Paul Serran Nov. 30, 2023 10:00 am

The Economist published a piece called Russia is poised to take advantage of political splits in Ukraine.

This comes as an encore to the NYT’s Zelensky Rebuke of Top General Signals Rift in Ukrainian Leadership, and to the WaPo’s As war frustrations rise, stalemate tests Zelensky and top general Zaluzhny, among so many others.

When the war between Russia and Ukraine broke, ‘competitive politics’ went into hibernation.

But now, Economist hears, Ukraine is ‘unstable’. Zelensky’s attempts to ‘centralize decision making’ and ‘shut down dissent’ are deepening the divide. Once again, President’s aides are ‘talking out of school’, and revealing the tense state of affairs.

“Cracks have emerged not only on political lines but, most worryingly, between the military and political leadership. Relations between President Volodymyr Zelensky and his commander-in-chief Valery Zaluzhny are understood to be terrible. The differences of opinion were first reported in summer last year. A recent candid interview by The Economist with the general, in which he declared that Ukraine’s war had reached a stalemate, brought that conflict into the open. Mr Zelensky publicly rebuked his general for the headlines. In a later interview he appeared to warn Mr Zaluzhny to stick to military affairs rather than ‘do politics’.
More here on the coming political disaster in Ukraine:https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/11/msm-lifts-veil-undeclared-ukrainian-civil-war-between/

If you're wondering why Zelensky canceled the elections it might have something to do with opinion polls showing him with a net trust of +32% which is less than half of Zaluzhny's rating which is (+70%).

 

[Rightguide]

That is all you want to see. Plenty of other perspectives are out in the public sphere and have even been offered here. You're a broken record

Maybe you could wish for a victory in Ukraine instead of relying on the facts on the ground there. Let us know how that works out for you.

 

[ll74]

Maybe you could wish for a victory in Ukraine instead of relying on the facts on the ground there. Let us know how that works out for you.

The facts are that ground has not been gained by either camp for several months. There have been a few breakthroughs by Ukranian forces.

But you've been saying Ukraine lost before any troops even hit the ground.

 

[Rightguide]

That is all you want to see. Plenty of other perspectives are out in the public sphere and have even been offered here. You're a broken record

There's plenty of Joe Biden protective propaganda out there but do show us some proof that Ukraine has suffered only minor casualties compared to the Russians and have driven the incompetent Russians out of where they were at the beginning of the war.

 

[Rightguide]

The facts are that ground has not been gained by either camp for several months. There have been a few breakthroughs by Ukranian forces.

But you've been saying Ukraine lost before any troops even hit the ground.

Show me where I said Ukraine was defeated before troops were in the field.

 

[ll74]

Show me where I said Ukraine was defeated before troops were in the field.

Lol

 

[ll74]

There's plenty of Joe Biden protective propaganda out there but do show us some proof that Ukraine has suffered only minor casualties compared to the Russians and have driven the incompetent Russians out of where they were at the beginning of the war.

B
D
S

Both camps have suffered heavy casualties.