Getting Along with the Vanillas in Your Life

[catalina_francisco]

I used to share the same philosophy as Wenchie's mother, and still do to a large degree, but I have learned through many trial and error processes that sometimes it really is no-one else's business and to go into discussions with those type people only lead to more problems, and basically very few instances where they are going to change their mind or accept reality over their own love of vivid imaginations. I can relate to the need to be concerned if it is the father of your child, but you also have a right to your privacy.

I think in the past 20-30 years, privacy has been sliding down a slippery slope to a point where people feel the need to defend or justify themselves about private and personal issues which have no place being the concern of others, and those others feel it their right to ask, know, or try and find out. First mistake to make is to fall into defending or justifying yourself. A response I have found that sometimes works better is pointing out in a semi- joking way that while they might think they know what is happening, they cannot in reality really know for sure unless they were there...of course that doesn't work if you allow them to know from you or in other ways exactly what you are doing. There was a time when sex lives were not so openly discussed and while I am glad that time has passed for some of us, I also think it needs thinking about before sharing with anyone and everyone, especially when you have children with someone you are no longer with who might go looking for something to use against you...not fair, not nice, but a sad reality for more than a few. Hope it works out for you.

Catalina

 

[intothewoods]

I used to share the same philosophy as Wenchie's mother, and still do to a large degree, but I have learned through many trial and error processes that sometimes it really is no-one else's business and to go into discussions with those type people only lead to more problems, and basically very few instances where they are going to change their mind or accept reality over their own love of vivid imaginations. I can relate to the need to be concerned if it is the father of your child, but you also have a right to your privacy.

I think in the past 20-30 years, privacy has been sliding down a slippery slope to a point where people feel the need to defend or justify themselves about private and personal issues which have no place being the concern of others, and those others feel it their right to ask, know, or try and find out. First mistake to make is to fall into defending or justifying yourself. A response I have found that sometimes works better is pointing out in a semi- joking way that while they might think they know what is happening, they cannot in reality really know for sure unless they were there...of course that doesn't work if you allow them to know from you or in other ways exactly what you are doing. There was a time when sex lives were not so openly discussed and while I am glad that time has passed for some of us, I also think it needs thinking about before sharing with anyone and everyone, especially when you have children with someone you are no longer with who might go looking for something to use against you...not fair, not nice, but a sad reality for more than a few. Hope it works out for you.

Catalina

To a certain extent, I am paying for being loose-lipped in the past. Most of that came from a lack of acceptance of myself. So, it was a lot of, I did this, but I'm okay! Accept me, accept me! Well, he doesn't have to, and I really shouldn't need him to. I wasn't so clear-headed then. I certainly never went into a lot of detail, but just enough so that, yeah, his imagination has clearly run wild.

I reacted emotionally the other day, and I am still learning how to stop, and bring the conversation back to what's relevant. It's very easy for me to slip into how dare you, I would never, it's not your business, blah blah defensiveness, rather than remaining calm, cool and collected.

I do not like the feeling of vulnerability. I wish I'd been smarter in the past, but whadya gonna do. It is what it is. I can only learn from it.

 

[catalina_francisco]

It's never easy, and part of that is because no-one should have to feel the need to watch what they say if they are not breaking the law and/or hurting others.

Catalina

 

[bluebell]

Hi, ITW. Wandering in rudely...

I'm particularly taken with Catalina's paragraph here.

I used to share the same philosophy as Wenchie's mother, and still do to a large degree, but I have learned through many trial and error processes that sometimes it really is no-one else's business and to go into discussions with those type people only lead to more problems, and basically very few instances where they are going to change their mind or accept reality over their own love of vivid imaginations. I can relate to the need to be concerned if it is the father of your child, but you also have a right to your privacy.

I so agree with her. Determining just what is need to know and what isn't quite so crucial might help you figure out where the boundaries of privacy can be drawn. You can always add to the pile, but it's not as easy to take it away once it's been unloaded.

Her thoughts spark some things in my head about subtle ways for you to defend your situation, without ever having gotten defensive in the first place. Maybe "protect" is the word I'm looking for. Preemptive thinking.

Obviously no one has interpersonal communication down pat (except for DC...); no one person has all the answers, and if they do then they certainly can't always abide by them. It requires a perfection that's just not attainable. So my first thought is, allow yourself the leeway to screw it up a little. It's to be expected. Don't come down on yourself so roughly.

You already said that you're catching yourself in the moment, about to blast off in ways that won't benefit your position. That's really good. It may not be as timely as you'd like it to be but recognizing it at all is not only a big help, but (to me) a huge nod to your present [and growing] maturity regarding the situation. Mistakes are never fun, but they are much easier to deal with if you attempt to allow/accept for them to happen. Give them some elbow room. Not too much, but enough to wiggle in.

Coupled with that is an ability to see where you're making strides. It already sounds like you're asserting a better handle not only of the situation, but of yourself and your feelings. And there's nothing wrong with feeling all wild and messy and Kandinsky-ish about it. It's a mottle of tough reflections and decisions. Don't be afraid to give yourself some positive reinforcement. Look for the little chinks of light coming through. You're obviously an incredibly bright and caring person; I don't think you would be one to devalue personal growth. So allow for flub ups and try to be kind to yourself.

My other less useful thoughts are that despite what's happened in the past, it is the present you that people are encountering. And it's in your hands to determine what it is they're seeing and hearing.
I know it can be really hard, especially with people who have known you forEVER, to think you're altering their conception of you and who you are. Sometimes it doesn't work. There are people who take an instant snapshot of us from eons ago and then continue to reference that as a means of determining who we are. That outdated snapshot is their lens for us and our actions. But. I really do think you can work against that a bit. People rarely seem to see us as we see ourselves. I guess that's part of the whole "fake it 'til you make it" thing. You can change what they see (and hear).

I subscribe to honesty and openness. Wholeheartedly. I completely agree with the freedom of disclosure. But I also find there's an extraordinarily high value on silence.
It can be difficult to know when silence would be useful, but it will cut off a lot of prying avenues. It's rather hard to interact with a silent person. It's also hard to pin things on them.
Where does this tie in with people who won't let us change? If you do anything for long enough it will make a dent. They may continue to think whatever they had about you previously, but their cabinet of recent examples will diminish until they're stuck in a trench without ammo.

The last thing I thought of is about forethought. Knowing yourself, your surroundings, and other people (ex-Mr. ITW, in particular) as both a subjective and objective participant. If you know what situations might arise, which ones will trap you, and which ones set you off, then you've won a huge battle already. Because you can work to sidestep that stuff (and have pre-determined answers ready, like subbie suggested).

I realize this (excessively verbose) post focuses all on you, ITW, and not your child. I'm not trying to take anything away from the fact that the child's well-being is at the center of the situation. What I was thinking is, children know when people are unhappy or tense or scared. Especially parents. Probably, and most especially, mothers. I think the wee one can remain the center of the web while you work on becoming more comfortable and confident in yourself in the situation. You are a root here, and helping yourself is also going to help your kid.

And, if all else fails, there's one of my very favorite phrases (borrowed from Angelica in the movie Joe versus The Volcano):
"I have no response to that."

(This picture is actually supposed to be, "I'm a flibbertigibbet" but that is not supposed to be the chosen direction here. )

 

[intothewoods]

Thank you, bluebell. Really great advice. I wish I had something genius to say in reply, but I'm just kind of taking it all in right now. Thank you again.