Help for a new Sub

[serijules]

I think sometimes it is hard for people new to the scene or new to a relationship as well to sort out the difference between having a bad moment and being in a bad situaiton. There are some days I curl up crying to myself and feeling bad about something that I'm not quite ready or able to talk about with D, and feeling like something in our relationship could be better or whatnot, but I have learned to reconize those as bad moments that have little or no impact on my situation and our relationship. Even the most healthy, secure, mature and wise relationships have bad moments, for sure. It is not necessarily a reflection on the people involved or the strength of the relationship unless they are unable or unwilling to solve it together. It took me many relationships to figure this out and be able to truly tell the difference and learn to handle things better, and most people tend to over-react or over-embelish things and ignore reason and logic when they are upset. Hindsight is 20/20 after all.

No one can really judge that expect the person reacting and having the emotions though. Maybe she will read this discussion and see another side to it that she was unable to consider or see clearly before when her emotions were at a peak. It's not all for naught (erm, did I use that phrase correctly? I think you'all know what I mean if I didn't...sorry.)

 

[catalina_francisco]

I think sometimes it is hard for people new to the scene or new to a relationship as well to sort out the difference between having a bad moment and being in a bad situaiton. There are some days I curl up crying to myself and feeling bad about something that I'm not quite ready or able to talk about with D, and feeling like something in our relationship could be better or whatnot, but I have learned to reconize those as bad moments that have little or no impact on my situation and our relationship. Even the most healthy, secure, mature and wise relationships have bad moments, for sure. It is not necessarily a reflection on the people involved or the strength of the relationship unless they are unable or unwilling to solve it together. It took me many relationships to figure this out and be able to truly tell the difference and learn to handle things better, and most people tend to over-react or over-embelish things and ignore reason and logic when they are upset. Hindsight is 20/20 after all.

No one can really judge that expect the person reacting and having the emotions though. Maybe she will read this discussion and see another side to it that she was unable to consider or see clearly before when her emotions were at a peak. It's not all for naught (erm, did I use that phrase correctly? I think you'all know what I mean if I didn't...sorry.)

Very true....there are always going to be challenges and I for one do not always adapt in the instant....it takes time and reflection often.

Catalina

 

[Erotic-Kiss]

And no it's not me, it's a friend who wishes to stay anomyous. She's very new to D/s, and she has been seeing a dom whose been showing her some things, but from some of the descriptions she's been giving me sound very disconcerning, (and yes she is reading the thread). Today, she described how she was not feeling well, and requested that they not do anything. Apparently his responce was to yell at her until she cried, then pick her up anyway, where she again requested not to have a session, which was ignored. Afterwards, he dropped her back off, and drove off without a word, so she's now pretty upset.

*ahem* the question is, is this acceptable behavior? it doesn't sound like it is to me, but I really don't wanna go around giving out relationship advice.

My question is this: Are they employing a "safe word" in their relationship? A word that, when uttered, is the VERY END of the session? I think if they're not, they should. It's when "NO" means "ABSOLUTELY NOT."

Part of being the Dominant partner in a Dom/Sub relationship is being in control, but under no circumstances should that control be pushed over a line set by both parties... not just the Dom's. Another important part that I find in these relationships is this: the Dom is supposed to have feelings for the sub. Where's the joy in controling something you don't really care about? It certainly doesn't sound like he has much care and concern for her.

Someone else mentioned "aftercare" and they were absolutely right. She needs to step up and establish some ground rules, including a safe word. That way nobody gets into any situation that will cause them incredible injury or mental or emotional distress.

Just my opinion...

 

[Seduce]

Where's the joy in controling something you don't really care about?

But there are lot of people who do just that - enjoy to controll and even hurt something or someone they dont care a bit about.
Sad but true.

 

[Marquis]

But there are lot of people who do just that - enjoy to controll and even hurt something or someone they dont care a bit about.
Sad but true.

Is it really that sad?

I take tremendous joy in controlling or hurting people I don't care about. I would venture to say there are those who take pleasure in being controlled or hurt by those that don't care about them.

The key is knowing who you are and what you're looking for.

 

[Erotic-Kiss]

But there are lot of people who do just that - enjoy to controll and even hurt something or someone they dont care a bit about.
Sad but true.

Unfortunately that IS true. I just don't understand the point. *shrugs* I must just be a different breed of cat.....

 

[Erotic-Kiss]

Is it really that sad?

I take tremendous joy in controlling or hurting people I don't care about. I would venture to say there are those who take pleasure in being controlled or hurt by those that don't care about them.

The key is knowing who you are and what you're looking for.

Agreed. It just sounds like the female in question isn't into that kind of thing. *shrugs* There are all kinds of breeds of animals out there. A cat's not necessarily just a cat... there are housecats, and wildcats and tomcats and pussies.

 

[Seduce]

Is it really that sad?

I take tremendous joy in controlling or hurting people I don't care about. I would venture to say there are those who take pleasure in being controlled or hurt by those that don't care about them.

The key is knowing who you are and what you're looking for.

In fact, you are right.
What I meant by sad were people that hurt puppies or kittens - i hate that kind deeply.
But I do admit that some people give impression they do want to be mistreated by those who dont care about them.

On the other hand, I too sometimes take pleasure in kicking around people I dont give a damn about.
But I am kinky...... I feel sorry for them afterwards

 

[h_i_s]

Ok, many have posted their thoughts since i had logged off to take a nap. Too many to reply to individually ... so ...

• Obviously enough to many, not ALL D/s relationships start with the levels of trust and communication that SHOULD be present.
• Not all are so confident in knowing exactly what they want, or do not want and what their limits might be in the beginnings of any type of relationship.
• There are two sides to every story, her side, His side, and the truth which usually is found somewhere between the two.

No where have i ever stated that it is wise or safe in every case, for a Dom/sub to enter into the level of D/s so soon as i had. i had/have a firm grip with regard to knowing exactly what my limits are, and made damn certain i understood exactly what would be expected of me before i offered my heart and soul to my Master. As i have stated in my post here, as well as in many of my posts to this forum: It is rare. It is not for everyone. Many say we are 'lucky' to have a D/s relationship that started so out so wonderful, and continues to be wonderful. It's more than luck. It is the result of two people who were responsible and had their shit together in regard to knowing what they want, need and are capable of offering to each other, and bringing it to together through a WHOLE LOT of communication. The act of finding each other is where the luck came into play.

You may all notice that i have never sought the advice of others at this forum regarding the D/s relationship between my Master and myself [and i never will]. i don't need to because when i have had doubts, or questions regarding our relationship, i bring them to HIM. There are many here who are very knowledgable, with opinions & thoughts which i can embrace and respect like they are my own, but none know what is best for us in our relationship, other than He and i. He's the only one other than myself who can possibley offer any answers, solutions, and advice.

I think the main point i TRIED to get across in pointing at my own D/s relationship was conveyed clearly enough, ... yet it seems some may have missed the point.

• Communication and trust are key elements toward the success of any relationship.
• There are two sides to every story.
• Expectations and levels of submission differ when comparing any D/s relationship to another.
• i'm not comfortable offering advice when there is a question of whether all of the facts are known, and find myself cringing when others do so prior to being certain of what all [both]versions of those facts might be.

i think what i had concidered, is again comparable to Catalina's thoughts (in her next post after my first). Many times Doms will ignore a sub as a form of punishment so that they will reflect on a certain behavior that in that Dom's opinion is 'unbecoming' of their sub. Certainly if this was (and i am SIMPLY guessing ... don't have both sides of the story) a case where the Dom felt the sub was refusing to submit to him and he felt her refusal was unwarranted, i can see how he may decide that insisting she submit, and then ignoring her for a bit afterwards could be possibley what had occured between Aeroil's friend and her Dom. Some may find that to be cruel, and again .. it all depends on the D/s relationship in question, and the dynamics which define that particular relationship. We don't even know how much time went by since he dropped her off 'without a word'. Heck, unless we were flys on a wall from the beginning [her picking up the phone] to the end [after he dropped her off, to present] of their last interaction, we don't really know a whole lot about any of it. You can all be certain that there have been times after a punishment, when in a moment during my hot-headed reflections i have felt it was unjustified, and said to myself, 'He is being so unfair, i don't deserve to be punished'. Every single time afterwards though, once He and i discuss things ... it turns out the punishment was justified. Who is to say that this is not the case with Aeroil's friend and her Dom? Maybe it is not ... and maybe it is. We don't know for certain.

This friend of Aeroil should be spending her time actually communicating with her Dom, rather than seeking advice from others who have no true clue of all that defines that relationship.

 

[Aeroil]

WOW that's a lotta replies!
First off, sorry, I don't know that much, I'm gonna ask her more later, but she was pretty upset last night (when it happened) and it was late for me, and my later reply was just before I left for school so I didn't have time then either. If possible I'm also gonna talk to him, find out his side. Now, for the specifics

For many D/s relationships, judgements can not be based on the amount of time a Dom & sub have known each other, or interacted with each other. For some it's not at all about the 'age' of the relationship. In many cases it all comes down to that couple's definition of the relationship, and the agreements which exist between the two. Many times we run across others whose perceptions and definitions regarding their relationships do not quite match our own guidleines in respect of what is acceptable and what is not. Who can say what is best for any Dom & sub in THEIR relationship, other than either of the two who are actually IN that relationship?

Within a week after meeting, i gave a one time, full acknowledgement of submission and consent to my Dom (now Husband/Master). He was very sweet and far from selfish then, and is still to this day. That is not to be misunderstood though, there have been times when i have felt He has acted a bit selfishly. i submit to Him even when i am not in the mood for play, not in the mood to serve Him, not feeling quite submissive, not feeling 100% well, and am tired. He IS the Master, and as His submissive my role is ALL ABOUT pleasing Him, His wants & desires, & His needs. In our D/s relationship He does have the final say in everything (within reason of course, and barring silly notions such as death etc ... im saying this before someone else decides i need them to point this out to me). He has the final say because i entrusted Him with the power not to abuse this trust. In giving that trust, it was with full acceptance of His ability to make sound decisions. He's a wonderful Master, and from day one, i've had no regrets at all. Submitting to a Dominant to exactly this extent may not be for everyone, it works for some of us though, obviously.

Catalina's thoughts on this pretty much mirror my own. We don't know what the agreement is between Aeroil's freind and their Dom. We don't know what their definitions, guidelines, and dynamics are regarding their D/s relationship.

There's not enough information provided for anyone to offer warranted & fitting advise for your sub friend, Aeroil.

P.S. In the beginning stages of the relationship between my Husband and myself, if i were this sub friend whom Aeroil is seeking advice for, and had acted on some of the advice offered by those ....... (and i'm certain that they all 'mean well' in their opinions expressed) ........... who have posted so far on this thread, ... i'd have missed out on the most stable, responsible, and loving relationships i have ever taken part in. Simply put, i'd have missed out on the most forfilling & happiest times of my life so far, and would have walked out on the only man who has ever shown me endless amounts of care, love, adoration, and what respect is all about.

It sounds to me, sinn0cent, like you made that choice knowing what D/s meant to you, had you had some experience prior? She has none, and is understandably quite confused, which is of course why she came to me asking for help (because I'm her highest authority on BDSM besides her Dom, who wouldn't talk to her about it when she asked.) What she chooses to do with the advice from this thread is her call, she just asked for it and was too shy to ask herself so I volunteered to post it for her.
Moving on......

 

[Aeroil]

I'm even wondering if the sub and Dom have made their limits clear.

If not, as she wants to stay in the relationship, then they are late in this step.

If so, and he realizes that she means it when she speaks, then he is clearly in the wrong in a most flagrant manner .... I wouldn't think it would make sense to stay in that case.

Finally, nothing is mentioned about a safe word. If they have one, why didn't she use it? If they don't have one, and the relationship is as new as we think, why the hell not?

Their limits? what has been told to me is that they agreed upon a "Month long 'trial-run' where they wouldn't be exclusive or anything, and he would just go slow and get her acquainted to it, so she could make a more permanant choice later", I'll ask her this more specifically later on though, and I don't think she has a safe word, I guess I shoulda asked her that myself.

 

[Aeroil]

I'm torn on this - we don't know the whole dynamics, as we haven't heard anything but this one story about the relationship ... but cautiously, I would have to say that she definitely needs to say "ok, we have to have a talk about this relationship equal to equal, not sub to Dom ..." and they need to set ground rules that don't seem to be there (as others have said). I also agree with chris that the line about dropping her off without a word shows that he is not concerned with her welfare.

I did suggest that she talk with him, and she said she did, but got yelled at for it. That was one of the things that concerned me most.

 

[Aeroil]

Doesn't sound like the healthiest of scenarios, especially in a fairly new relationship. It's not to say that this kind of thing is not within the right of a Dominant, it's not to say that this kind of thing is wrong in any given scenario, it just sounds like it's totally the wrong tactic applied to your particular friend.

Simple enough: if a relationship is not making you happy, get out. If it's not giving you more than it's subtracting, it's not good.

Sinn and catalina -- while you may or may not submit "whether you feel up to it" I'd argue that overall, you are extremely happy with the parameters and the nature of your relationships. You're confident in the decisions you made. I would argue, as serijules did, that if this person was happy and confident in her decision she would not be soliciting advice or overly upset.

Yes, she is most definately not a fan of humiliation from what I see,, like I said she's quite the sweet girl and definately not abrasive and confrontational (she disagrees with this, but it couldn't be more true lol).

 

[Aeroil]

LOL, I wish I were that good but I often need reminding of what it is I want when I am not feeling 100%. I do not advocate it for all, or for many in fact, but we may be doing a disservice in that this may have been made clear in the beginning and agreed upon.....I have known of more than one time it has happened this way and then the submissive has had a bad day and declared they did not realise the Dominant was serious when they agreed to those terms and they should be able to decide if and when and to what they submit....and it is equally possible we are doing the submissive a disservice as we still do not have all the facts (reminds me of another thread which took on this life with part of the story and no offer to expand, but asking advice....it is difficult as it makes everyone have to guess and assume which most of us do not like doing). Why do we let ourselves get drawn into these type situations?

Anyway, like you say, if you are not happy (seriously and not whimsical on a particular day) you get out which is why I mentioned in my first post that she needs to decide if she feels safe and this is acceptable behaviour to her and act accordingly. That really is the bottom line because no matter what was agreed upon, what was understood or not, this does not sound like a TPE relationship and thus leaves the door open to moving on with no need to feel guilty.

Catalina

haha, sorry, I got as much as I could out of her at the time, and no doubt this thread should let me get more, but I will expand all I can on this.

However she has said he's usually very kind, and that she really does like him and doesn't want to leave him (which frightens me a bit beacause that reminds me of my prior feelings about my quasi-Ex, which I think I was fourtunate to get away from as well as I did).

 

[Aeroil]

I think sometimes it is hard for people new to the scene or new to a relationship as well to sort out the difference between having a bad moment and being in a bad situaiton. There are some days I curl up crying to myself and feeling bad about something that I'm not quite ready or able to talk about with D, and feeling like something in our relationship could be better or whatnot, but I have learned to reconize those as bad moments that have little or no impact on my situation and our relationship. Even the most healthy, secure, mature and wise relationships have bad moments, for sure. It is not necessarily a reflection on the people involved or the strength of the relationship unless they are unable or unwilling to solve it together. It took me many relationships to figure this out and be able to truly tell the difference and learn to handle things better, and most people tend to over-react or over-embelish things and ignore reason and logic when they are upset. Hindsight is 20/20 after all.

No one can really judge that expect the person reacting and having the emotions though. Maybe she will read this discussion and see another side to it that she was unable to consider or see clearly before when her emotions were at a peak. It's not all for naught (erm, did I use that phrase correctly? I think you'all know what I mean if I didn't...sorry.)

A bad day, perhaps, I thought of that, but she has said this has happened before, but it never lasts long, IE: he'll be mad and yelling at her one moment and acting like nothing happened ten minutes later, although they weren't super-frequent moments.

Okay, guess that's finally it for now lol. *awaits replies*

 

[h_i_s]

It sounds to me, sinn0cent, like you made that choice knowing what D/s meant to you, had you had some experience prior? ...

i had no experience with D/s at ALL. i only had my instincts, some details of the D/s relationships of others, stuff regarding D/s i read online at various forums and sites, and had read the book, "Screw the Roses, Send me the Thorns". Other than that, i had a solid understanding of what i like, what i want, what i need, and ideas about what i might like, what i might not like, what i do not want, and what i do not need and very good communication skills. i had a few failed relationships in my past, and a good understanding of how and why they failed and was able to use those examples to remind myself of the importance to not enter any future relationships until my issues with those of my past had been resolved within myself, as well as using those examples to determine for myself what i do and do not want in a relationship.

i had no experience, and yes, i knew what D/s meant to me, as well as what it did not mean to me. Very soon after we met, just as importantly, i made it a point to learn ASAP of what it meant, and did not mean for Him.

 

[Aeroil]

i had no experience with D/s at ALL. i only had my instincts, some details of the D/s relationships of others, stuff regarding D/s i read online at various forums and sites, and had read the book, "Screw the Roses, Send me the Thorns". Other than that, i had a solid understanding of what i like, what i want, what i need, and ideas about what i might like, what i might not like, what i do not want, and what i do not need and very good communication skills. i had a few failed relationships in my past, and a good understanding of how and why they failed and was able to use those examples to remind myself of the importance to not enter any future relationships until my issues with those of my past had been resolved within myself, as well as using those examples to determine for myself what i do and do not want in a relationship.

i had no experience, and yes, i knew what D/s meant to me, as well as what it did not mean to me. Very soon after we met, just as importantly, i made it a point to learn ASAP of what it meant, and did not mean for Him.

Ah, well, my apologies then, but you did indeed have a lot more than she did, she wasn't even sure she was submissive until after they were together for a while. (Apparently it was a domme friend who first spotted it in her)

 

[h_i_s]

Their limits? what has been told to me is that they agreed upon a "Month long 'trial-run' where they wouldn't be exclusive or anything, and he would just go slow and get her acquainted to it, so she could make a more permanant choice later", I'll ask her this more specifically later on though, and I don't think she has a safe word, I guess I shoulda asked her that myself.

It could be that their ideas of 'going slow' are not the same, or .. this is his way of aquainting her with his idea of what a more permanent D/s relationship with him may involve.

For ourselves, we don't rely on 'safe words'. Most times, because He does understand, and know me well enough, He is observant enough to know when i am having a problem with anything. When i have had to resort to words when things have gone wrong, usually responding to Him with "Owww, that fucking hurts!!" .... or ... "Fuck!! Cuffs!! .. cutting into my ..... owwwwwwwwwww ....... leg!! Left one! Ankle!! ARRGGGGG ..." ......... seems to work well for us.

In that it seems that they do not know each other well enough, i'd agree that if she isn't using them already, safe words would be a good thing for your sub friend, Aeroil.

 

[h_i_s]

I did suggest that she talk with him, and she said she did, but got yelled at for it. That was one of the things that concerned me most.

Not a good thing at all when a sub is yelled at for communicating, i couldn't agree more. For me, yelling is an indication of a lack of self control. It would raise concerns for me if i were entering a relationship with any Dom who claims to be responsible enough to handle being in control, yet can't control himself very well.

Unless, ..... He is into humiliation in a way that He has decided will include intimidation via yelling and screaming. Or, perhaps He didn't care for the way she chose to express herself in the words she chose in communicating with Him. Of course, not knowing all of the details .... i can only guess at all of the 'whys'.

It wouldn't be *my* cup of tea .... yet, it would not surprise me to know that others enjoy and seek such in their own D/s relationship. For a beginner with little to no experience just entering into their first experiences with a Dom ..... i agree, it may be a bit more than some can handle, certainly isn't the best chosen method of instilling trust, and a bound to be a bit over the top for MOST inexperienced submissives at the start of any D/s relationship.

 

[Aeroil]

Not a good thing at all when a sub is yelled at for communicating, i couldn't agree more. For me, yelling is an indication of a lack of self control. It would raise concerns for me if i were entering a relationship with any Dom who claims to be responsible enough to handle being in control, yet can't control himself very well.

Unless, ..... He is into humiliation in a way that He has decided will include intimidation via yelling and screaming. Or, perhaps He didn't care for the way she chose to express herself in the words she chose in communicating with Him. Of course, not knowing all of the details .... i can only guess at all of the 'whys'.

It wouldn't be *my* cup of tea .... yet, it would not surprise me to know that others enjoy and seek such in their own D/s relationship. For a beginner with little to no experience just entering into their first experiences with a Dom ..... i agree, it may be a bit more than some can handle, certainly isn't the best chosen method of instilling trust, and a bound to be a bit over the top for MOST inexperienced submissives at the start of any D/s relationship.

Definately not her cup of tea either, she was wondering what she had done wrong.

 

[Aeroil]

Okay some new info:
She is not topping from the bottom, she is anemic, which was why she wasn't and still isn't feeling well, and he has been told of that.
She does not have a safe word, he thinks they are a "Waste of time"
A similar scene happened tonight, with him also punishing her for behaving 'inappropriately' last night.
I doubt I'll be able to talk to him, apparently he doesn't like me (although he's never met me).

 

[Marquis]

Is this bitch retarded?

Tell her to get her brother to fuck this dude up, then take some time to get her shit straight before getting in over her ahead again.

 

[Seduce]

The poor thing is probably one of those shy girls unsure of themselves, tending to let almost anyone persuade them into anything. Sort that can never say no.
I meet lot of that kind in erotic clubs here, they are just born victims. Passive and sugestible to the nauseating point without an idea what are they getting themselves into, and then is usually too late to get out of the jam.

I should say she needs a change of attitude or she may escape this brute just to fall in hands of next one.

 

[FurryFury]

If that story describes what Dom is about, then I am not a tiny little bit submissive at all.
I would get into my car, ran over the brute and drive away without looking back......... only maybe I would stop to cut his dick off and take it as a trophy.
I mean it.

Seduce! I Love you! I really do!

There's a time to make people do things they don't want to do. This may or may not have been one of those times.

rosco rathbone,

Those are a good points.

Like the new avatar btw.

"yelling til she cried"? etc. Need more info as to the depth of this relationship before having an opinion that would hold value BUT I do think it is too easy to fall back on she is the sub He is the Dom...submit...when the message begins with She's very new to D/s...and His lack of regard. If any sub came to Me that I "know" with this scenerio My advice would not be suck it up...it would be rethink your choice.

Shadowsdream,

I like that you are so thoughtful in your posts.

I always have liked your threads too!

Okay some new info:
She is not topping from the bottom, she is anemic, which was why she wasn't and still isn't feeling well, and he has been told of that.
She does not have a safe word, he thinks they are a "Waste of time"
A similar scene happened tonight, with him also punishing her for behaving 'inappropriately' last night.
I doubt I'll be able to talk to him, apparently he doesn't like me (although he's never met me).

I know far too little about such things but my personal reaction nowadays would be to get out. I wish your friend well, Aeroil! I think it sounds really bad to me.

It's true different people want and need different things, not all of which they are conscious of.

It's also true there are people who enjoy abusing others, strangers or not.

I do believe that service once entered into holds some requirements that may not be easily embraced.

This thing sounds bad to me but, on the other hand, I know some very sweet people that get off on the drama of fussing about things and having other people worry for them. They never do get out of whatever it is they are complaining about. They like to keep things agitated though they complain. If the "bad guy" leaves them or dies? They either have to replace him or start causing all the trouble themselves. They are addicted to pathos.

BTW, if this guy doesn't like you and hasn't met you? That means someone has been talking to him about you, your friend probably, to, most likely, stir that up. I'd be very careful.

Fury

 

[Seduce]

Seduce! I Love you! I really do!

Feeling is most certainly mutual
If I remember correctly, you like roses?
Little something for you......