How to be in an FLR but still be respected?

[LMWM321]

Though my wife makes more money than I it's understood that the reason ISN'T because she's smarter or more decisive. It's because her natural talents and interests were more marketable from the moment we entered the work force after college. We realized early on as a couple that BOTH careers can't be an equal priority. That said, she never "pulls rank" or presumes her making more gives her more than equal say when contemplating big decisions like relocations, big purchases (cars, college decisions for kids, etc..). ..As for restaurants, it's like "ok, I decided last time, you pick this time...just not XXX again." Remarkably, it's chosing our next Hulu/ Netflix binges that seem to generate the most acrimony.

But there's a whole other thing being expressed in the original post that I don't get. ...Like, the idea that being pegged or eating a woman's ass is somehow feminizing, or something that diminishes a man. Ugh... I'm very glad my wife doesn't think that way. We don't view these activities through a gender-role lens.

Added:
With regards to being pegged. I think it's actually my unflinching willingness to do it that turns her on. ..And she uses her dildo's, which look like actual dicks, rather than some smooth phallus thingy that is less apt to trigger a guy's homophobia. It's not something we openly share w/ friends but if my getting pegged was revealed during a drunken convo I wouldn't act embarrassed. ...I'd say, "Yeah?! So the fuck what! ..It feels good. ..If you're too insecure about your sexuality to try it, I think you're the wimp, not me!"

Anyway... the bottom line is to "own" who you are. That, more than anything, will impress your wife.

 

[sundown1]

Over here wondering with FLR means...

 

[BrentJW]

Over here wondering with FLR means...

Female Lead Relationship.

 

[WonderPonder]

I would say our marriage was 50-50 up until last year. When I started having serious health issues my wife took the lead. Then when we entered into cuckolding she took the reins in pretty much every aspect.
Sexually I'd say she probably doesn't respect me like she would if I was an alpha stud. Her other man definitely didn't respect me as a man.
I admit that I'm a submissive beta and my wife loves her sexual partner to be a dominant alpha manly man.

 

[Escierto]

I would say our marriage was 50-50 up until last year. When I started having serious health issues my wife took the lead. Then when we entered into cuckolding she took the reins in pretty much every aspect.
Sexually I'd say she probably doesn't respect me like she would if I was an alpha stud. Her other man definitely didn't respect me as a man.
I admit that I'm a submissive beta and my wife loves her sexual partner to be a dominant alpha manly man.

Were you ever the dominant partner? Did your wife tell you she wanted a dominant man?

 

[WonderPonder]

Were you ever the dominant partner? Did your wife tell you she wanted a dominant man?

Yes but last August I was diagnosed with cancer and then the chemo made my heart function plummet. I'm on the small side with my penis so I was never a stud.
Last June my wife hit menopause which caused her libido to skyrocket, July 1st she started her weight loss fitness journey and a couple of months ago she hit her goal of 135lbs which was her wedding day weight.

In December she got into my cuckold fantasies and had befriended another man. All put together our cuck-hotwife started new years eve. Originally it was going to last until I recovered but it looks long term now. She loves bigger cock and I have the exact opposite. It's been great and we've discovered that she loves this lifestyle and that I love being cucked.

 

[Escierto]

Yes but last August I was diagnosed with cancer and then the chemo made my heart function plummet. I'm on the small side with my penis so I was never a stud.
Last June my wife hit menopause which caused her libido to skyrocket, July 1st she started her weight loss fitness journey and a couple of months ago she hit her goal of 135lbs which was her wedding day weight.

In December she got into my cuckold fantasies and had befriended another man. All put together our cuck-hotwife started new years eve. Originally it was going to last until I recovered but it looks long term now. She loves bigger cock and I have the exact opposite. It's been great and we've discovered that she loves this lifestyle and that I love being cucked.

It's great that you are both on the same page!

 

[roshnikhanna]

Over here wondering with FLR means.

 

[Mike302]

My wife makes more than I do - has for years.. She's in a higher paying industry. At times, she's made 2x as much. ..Moreover, I usually wait for her to initiate sex. Why? Because I'm always in the mood and she, well, not quite as much. If I wait, the sex is usually better for both of us. And when we do have sex (roughly 2x week) I am quite keen on eating her ass AND occasionally being pegged. And when she's making more sense than I - which is more often than I'd like to admit - I'll defer to her. ..So does this mean I'm in an FLR?

Whether or not you believe it is an FLR, I can tell you I have NEVER felt like my wife doesn't respect me, except maybe my sense of direction. I don't think our marriage would have survived otherwise.

Do you feel all men who make more than their wives and who are the ones who generally initiate sex are therefore in an MLR?

Put another way, your initial post suggests there's something inherently shameful for a man to fully embraces gender equality with respect to income and sex. I'm not trying to be glib, just trying to understand your labels and the premise of your problem.

No.

If she's making more of the decisions than you, and / or has the final say in most of them, yes you are in a FLR. If it's more "shared", then you have more of an equality situation going on. Mine makes more $ than me, too. It's very common.

An FLR isn't equality.

I don't have a problem, I'm just trying to keep it that way. I don't see any of the common signs of disrespect from her.

 

[Mike302]

This aligns with our experience. I am comfortable taking the lead and my husband prefers to be a supportive partner relieved of the responsibility of making key decisions. We are each happy with our role and feel as though things work best when we stick to it.

The example I have used before is something as benign as going out to dinner. I decide when we are going out and where we are going. But I don't use that authority to impose my own will. I seek to strike a balance between what he likes and what I like. We just find this approach more amenable to our personalities than negotiating every decision. When we used to do that we found that more often than not the "negotiation" amounted to us each wanting to defer to the other rather than express our own preferences. That desire to accommodate actually stood in the way of open and honest communication and led to arguably sub-optimal decisions. Now, even if I seek to know what he wants the practice is that he must tell me honestly. He can't say "whatever you want honey" or say whatever he thinks I want. He must express his actual preference. In turn I commit that I won't just default to that. I will still decide based upon a balance of what each of us wants.

The same applies to sex and virtually every other aspect of our lives unless it is something where he clearly has greater expertise. Even then he will state his position and I will decide, but almost certainly with deference to his greater expertise.

There are aspects of the relationship where my leadership is more dominant, but that is because we both enjoy that psychological dynamic.

This is exactly what goes on for us and how if became over the years. We also had a very clear / formal discussion about it.

 

[Mike302]

Why do you care what others think about the gender role dynamics of the relationship between you and your wife?

You are both obviously enjoying yourselves and seem happy with her in the lead. Did you not respect her when you left the relationship? Do you not respect yourself because she has taken over the leadership role?

I'm sensing a bit of projection and unease. It's definitely something you two should talk about as a couple. You would be surprised what kind of things can be resolved quickly and completely if you talk about how you're feeling.

It's not about caring what others think, it's about learning what others have experienced and what advise they may have. This is a discussion forum / thread.

I'm not sure what you meant by "left the relationship". Neither of us "left the relationship".

"Unease"? Well, I'd call it concern and just want to stay ahead of any potential issues.

 

[Mike302]

I think that leadership is a different matter than who makes more money or who initiates sex. Those things may be correlated with who is the leader but I don't think that they define it.

That said my wife is the (strong) lead in our relationship who happens to make a bit more than I do and decides all significant matters including when we have sex.

In my view, the dynamics of gender equality have sort of distorted the picture. It used to be assumed that the man was the lead. Then when we started to become more focused on gender equality society seemed to adopt the idea that every marriage should be equal in the sense that everything was by consensus and neither party led. There is nothing wrong with that. But I think that a more complete view of the topic embraces the notion that for many couples it may work best if one of the partners IS the lead. In that context equality means that either party is just as well suited to leadership, not that neither party should lead.

When we think of most organizations or groups - be that business, government, a congregation or the many informal groups that exist in society - the vast majority have a leader or leaders. Things just function better that way. It keeps everyone pulling in the same direction and concentrates decision-making with the people best equipped to make the decisions. Maybe they are smarter or more knowledgeable in a certain area, but it could also be that they are the ones who have taken on the responsibility to dig into the details of any given decision. Or perhaps they are just more comfortable with the notion of being in charge. That doesn't mean others don't have input. But often a good decision with everyone supporting it leads to better outcomes than a decision borne entirely of compromise with everyone pulling in different directions.

For us my wife is comfortable with that notion and so am I. We don't expect that she will always do the very best thing. But we do know that she usually makes the right decision. And even when she doesn't that is part of that dynamic and cannot realistically be compared to an unattainable situation where some other consensus approach will lead to perfect decisions all the time (it won't) with no cost in terms of friction or inefficiency or indecision.

Totally agree. Heck for a moment I was wondering, "Wait, did I type this?!"

I believe alot of arguments come from the power struggle of having no leader or two leaders. Things flow better when someone is in charge, as you said. And putting the woman in charge of sex, as long as she wants sex, is awesome.

 

[Yarglenurp]

A healthy FLR strikes me as a normal, fair relationship. The only thing is that makes it different from “mainstream” relationships is that the woman would make the final call, instead of the man. But that doesn’t make thing unfair so long as the man is OK with that arrangement. Even if he doesn’t like a particular decision, he has made the rational balance of desires and consented to his partners decision.

I think there’s a lot of people that have a hard time distinguishing equality with equitability. An equal relationship between two partners is almost never realistic because those two partners have different needs, preferences, and abilities. An equitable relationship between the two is quite possible. If your wife is in charge but generally defers to your advice and counsel, that might be an “unequal” relationship. However, such a relationship wouldn’t be an inequitable one so long as she is prioritizing the both of you, genuinely respects and listens to your wishes, and recognizes that you can change the arrangement if you are truly unhappy. I think, in general, the goal of a relationship should be equity, not equality.

 

[LMWM321]

I think, in general, the goal of a relationship should be equity, not equality.

Well said Yarglenup....

As I see it, what's important is that all the tasks and chores involved in running a household get divided up equally. ..NOT that we each do 1/2 of every task and chore. As an example, my wife LOVES to cook so she cooks all our meals. But once we're done eating, she doesn't lift a finger for cleanup - that's on me.

While I truly believe communism to be a failed ideology and form of governance, I do like the famous Karl Marx quote, "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need." ..It has a certain relevance when applied to making a marriage work

 

[Kenrychard]

Surprised, but I totally get the OP without ever having heard the term and concept. It is a LOT like my former marriage on a different level. The traits that attracted her to cheat on me ( rugged men) were the same ones that got her hurt, like raped 3 times in High School by adult men she respected, again by one of the friends she cheated with, and her last husband ( also she cheated with) was such an asswipe he made sure he traumatized each of the kids who tried to live with them so they would go back to me. But when shit hits the fan its me she relies on to save her. So, she forgives the men who raped her, the last one is even still a friend. But I mention to her some days I just can't be around her too long because she still gets me horny, and I get totally bitched at for disrespecting her menopausal lack of interest.
So, I could point out that if I just raped her instead of being nice about still desiring her, she'd respect me more afterwards. And in my case, unlike the others where she chose not to, she couldn't report it. She and the family would lose everything with me in jail. I'm the only one that gets shit done and provides for 6 adults. She will counter, yes, but you are too good a man, even if you flipped out and did it you would regret it. And she disrespects me for that? I am starting to think that my sessions with the therapist for rage control years ago were a really bad idea.
I know it isn't a universal trait of women, but somewhere in the future shouldn't evolution suggest that men who actually provide in the modern world, and not the ones who act like cave men still 100,00 years out of date, are the respected ones? LOL.

It really is about feeling respected and showing respect.

 

[Yarglenurp]

I know it isn't a universal trait of women, but somewhere in the future shouldn't evolution suggest that men who actually provide in the modern world, and not the ones who act like cave men still 100,00 years out of date, are the respected ones? LOL.

It really is about feeling respected and showing respect.

Totally agree about the respect part. It is one of the pillars of every healthy relationship. No matter the details, whether it’s traditional or full-blown cuckolding, mutual respect and appreciation is critical.

But as for your wish for society… no. Because evolution works by seeing what gets propagated. Her genes and her rapist’s genes get propagated. Unless you have kids by this woman, yours don’t. Don’t forget, Mother Nature is the twisted innovator who came up with shit like “predators,” “cuckoo birds,” and “wasps that lay eggs inside caterpillars.” In a sense, you’ve worked against the ideal you’re dreaming of because you’re literally proving it’s ok to be shitbag… some other dude will raise your kids while you can be a total drain on society.

But to your point about society. I think this is a part where modern society isn’t modern enough. As a guy with a bit of a female supremacist streak, one of the first things I recognize is that not all women are equal in character, just like not all men are equal in character. Some people are literally trash, and that includes both men and women. It disrespects and degrades women to lump a first person who shows loyalty and values loyalty in kind with a second person who values scociopathic sex criminals simply because the two people have the same sex organs.

 

[Kenrychard]

Totally agree about the respect part. It is one of the pillars of every healthy relationship. No matter the details, whether it’s traditional or full-blown cuckolding, mutual respect and appreciation is critical.

But as for your wish for society… no. Because evolution works by seeing what gets propagated. Her genes and her rapist’s genes get propagated. Unless you have kids by this woman, yours don’t. Don’t forget, Mother Nature is the twisted innovator who came up with shit like “predators,” “cuckoo birds,” and “wasps that lay eggs inside caterpillars.” In a sense, you’ve worked against the ideal you’re dreaming of because you’re literally proving it’s ok to be shitbag… some other dude will raise your kids while you can be a total drain on society.

But to your point about society. I think this is a part where modern society isn’t modern enough. As a guy with a bit of a female supremacist streak, one of the first things I recognize is that not all women are equal in character, just like not all men are equal in character. Some people are literally trash, and that includes both men and women. It disrespects and degrades women to lump a first person who shows loyalty and values loyalty in kind with a second person who values scociopathic sex criminals simply because the two people have the same sex organs.

I was being a little over the top in my post, the ex wife did piss me off Monday. She literally got pissed when I told her she had been looking so nice lately I was actually swelling, at 66 a real surprise. I was miffed, it was true and I thought a compliment. So maybe a little harsh on her but the facts accurate. She had a real problem with judgement, and it turned out to be mental illness. Psychiatrist told us she has a rare form of empathy disorder, she can "put herself in someone else's shoes" But she can't do the harder version, imagine what someone else is feeling in the situation.So she always made decisions only from her point of view. No wonder she constantly made choices that had me and the kids wondering, "does she even care what she is doing to us? "The kids are mine and hers no doubt, so I am not raising a rape child.
Evolution stopped causing species improvement when we became intelligent enough to artificially prop up those lines which would have died out in a competitive environment. I'm not complaining, without modern medicine my two youngest would have died before 2 years old. And as far as female leadership goes, the world would be better off if the gals were running the governments. I think statistically more psychopaths are male, and the male versions definitely are more aggressive and driven, so more dangerous. When I say that, I am reffering to the legit university studies that estimated about 10% of men have enough psychopathic traits to be dysfuctional, and that 60% of corporate and government leaders were in that 10%. What a surprise, the biggest jackasses rise to the top.

 

[BrentJW]

Over here wondering with FLR means.

I’m wondering why your question is exactly the same as post #27 with the same typo. With instead of what. Are you the same person with two handles? Just curious.

 

[Illgiveitatry1]

Yes but last August I was diagnosed with cancer and then the chemo made my heart function plummet. I'm on the small side with my penis so I was never a stud.
Last June my wife hit menopause which caused her libido to skyrocket, July 1st she started her weight loss fitness journey and a couple of months ago she hit her goal of 135lbs which was her wedding day weight.

In December she got into my cuckold fantasies and had befriended another man. All put together our cuck-hotwife started new years eve. Originally it was going to last until I recovered but it looks long term now. She loves bigger cock and I have the exact opposite. It's been great and we've discovered that she loves this lifestyle and that I love being cucked.

Sorry to hear about the cancer and when my wife hit menopause her sex drive completely stopped.

 

[SmoothAndSweet]

Rules of the game. I am in a relationship that is like that. When we are together because we love each other passionately, she is the boss, but when I babysit her kids our actions are completely different with each other

 

[NancyPan]

There are various styles and levels of FLR. Ours has been negotiated over time and resulted from a view things: My lifelong desire to please women and arousal from the idea of female domination which I confessed to my wife years ago. My panty fetish which I also confessed and, fortunately, she found amusing. My lack of ability to please her with PIV sex and her decision, after menopause, that she would no longer allow it. Her understanding that I was aroused by erotic humiliation. My confession that I had been masturbating, my request that she manage my orgasms, and my promise that I would only ejaculate with her permission. Our mutual agreement that she is in charge of the house, better at seeing what needs to be done, and that I would submit to her authority in the house and assume most of the mundane chores such as cleaning bathrooms. Her understanding that I am addicted to her pussy and her recognizing that is best for me to earn the privilege of worship.

All that being said, she has zero interest in cuckolding. We make all major life decisions together, and are great companions. She is my Queen. I live to serve her and worship her pussy. That is our FLR and I know she respects me and loves me!

 

[Will527]

That sounds almost ideal, except for the humiliation; I don't think it's necessary when you have such a good understanding. However, if being humiliated is part of what makes you happy, you're fortunate that she accommodates you in every way.

 

[policywank]

I think that whether a woman can respect a submissive man also has a lot to do with the way she sees herself.

 

[GeorgiaGuy48]

If she grows to disrespect you, that was potentially coming whether you were or are in an FLR. It may be a number of things that starts that process, but in my opinion that is mostly on her and not on the man, unless you are just lazy, exhibit little to no ambition, no problem solving skills, constantly angry , jealous, continuously acting like a child, doing suspicious things that do not benefit the relationship. Outside of that, if she loses respect for you because you are submissive, want sexual things that other men may not want, maybe she isn't the partner that you need and vice versa. Just my thoughts and opinions.

 

[NancyPan]

I think that whether a woman can respect a submissive man also has a lot to do with the way she sees herself.

This makes sense. My wife is capable and confident. Wondering, though, if you could say more about this, about the type of woman who might embrace and find joy in male submission. It seems like you choose stereotypical alpha guys to fuck, while you are in a committed and loving FLR with a submissive man who you cuckold.