How to be in an FLR but still be respected?

[policywank]

This makes sense. My wife is capable and confident. Wondering, though, if you could say more about this, about the type of woman who might embrace and find joy in male submission. It seems like you choose stereotypical alpha guys to fuck, while you are in a committed and loving FLR with a submissive man who you cuckold.

I date a broad cross section of men that interest me for various reasons. There are some stereotypical alpha guys among them, but that is certainly not a focus.

My comment was more geared to why a woman might not respect a submissive man more so than why she would want one.

Many women regard themselves in at least a partially traditional way and/or subscribe to consensus societal views so they naturally project that expectation onto men. If she is supposed to be a certain way then so too are men and not being that way raises questions in her mind. I recall having a discussion with someone on here some time ago about how she regarded a man's jealousy and possessiveness as evidence of his love. And if he isn't that way that must mean he doesn't love her as much. Personally, I disagree with that in every way but she treated it sort of like it was an absolute rather than accepting that different people feel differently. She saw herself as wanting a man who was that way and that was central to her feeling loved.

The same dynamic can apply to why a woman would want a submissive man. It is assumed that she is domineering or wants to play the role of "the man." But that doesn't allow for the possibility that she doesn't see life through that traditional lens. I don't want to be "the man" or to reverse roles. I just have the comfort with myself that I don't need the traditional male role. And I find that my submissive husband is plenty supportive and strong. I see that submissive does not mean weak. His submission is a source of enjoyment and stability for us both and is meshes with my personality. Men who want to play a traditional role sometimes find it difficult to accept me as I am - not bossy or bitchy, just independent with my own agency - so their approach would be less of a fit than my husband. I can date those men though because in that context they are more arm's length and keep it in check more than they would if we were closer.

 

[NancyPan]

I date a broad cross section of men that interest me for various reasons. There are some stereotypical alpha guys among them, but that is certainly not a focus.

My comment was more geared to why a woman might not respect a submissive man more so than why she would want one.

Many women regard themselves in at least a partially traditional way and/or subscribe to consensus societal views so they naturally project that expectation onto men. If she is supposed to be a certain way then so too are men and not being that way raises questions in her mind. I recall having a discussion with someone on here some time ago about how she regarded a man's jealousy and possessiveness as evidence of his love. And if he isn't that way that must mean he doesn't love her as much. Personally, I disagree with that in every way but she treated it sort of like it was an absolute rather than accepting that different people feel differently. She saw herself as wanting a man who was that way and that was central to her feeling loved.

The same dynamic can apply to why a woman would want a submissive man. It is assumed that she is domineering or wants to play the role of "the man." But that doesn't allow for the possibility that she doesn't see life through that traditional lens. I don't want to be "the man" or to reverse roles. I just have the comfort with myself that I don't need the traditional male role. And I find that my submissive husband is plenty supportive and strong. I see that submissive doesn't not mean weak. His submission is a source of enjoyment and stability for us both and is meshes with my personality. Men who want to play a traditional role sometimes find it difficult to accept me as I am - not bossy or bitchy, just independent with my own agency - so their approach would be less of a fit than my husband. I can date those men though because in that context they are more arm's length and keep it in check more than they would if we were closer.

Thank you for this thoughtful clarification. As I think you know, although my wife was a leader in her career and a professional, it was me who sought her dominance and control. She chose to accommodate certain of my desires, but I have had to learn to accept some harsh realities. I do not think she would ever describe me as weak. Actually, I think it’s been a sign of strength from us both that we’ve talked openly about our desires and needs. It does take strength to submit, serve, and put her first.

However, she would not have sought a submissive man as a partner. In our case, I gradually revealed my submissive desires to her over time. Yesterday, there is little question in my mind that my choice of her as a partner had much to do with her natural leadership and ability to take control. Then, when she was honest with me about her frustrations with my PE , etc., our lives changed forever.

 

[Goldenfinger]

It’s not that you’re respected or not. It’s just the dynamic of the relationship.

 

[policywank]

Thank you for this thoughtful clarification. As I think you know, although my wife was a leader in her career and a professional, it was me who sought her dominance and control. She chose to accommodate certain of my desires, but I have had to learn to accept some harsh realities. I do not think she would ever describe me as weak. Actually, I think it’s been a sign of strength from us both that we’ve talked openly about our desires and needs. It does take strength to submit, serve, and put her first.

However, she would not have sought a submissive man as a partner. In our case, I gradually revealed my submissive desires to her over time. Yesterday, there is little question in my mind that my choice of her as a partner had much to do with her natural leadership and ability to take control. Then, when she was honest with me about her frustrations with my PE , etc., our lives changed forever.

I think that all of us are affected by our environment and upbringing and the expectations that they impose upon us. It takes time to find our true selves. And as married people that happens with a partner that is also trying to find their true selves. And that doesn't just happen singularly but rather while we are seeking to explore and evolve with our partner as we both go through that. If we are lucky where we land is reflective of our understanding of ourselves and our partner and compromises to reconcile the two.

Your submission to your wife is a by-product of all of that. Would she have adopted her role if not for your desires and her love of you and vice versa? It is an interesting thought experiment, yet not that relevant to lived reality. All couples face that dynamic. We all adapt to our partner as we find ourselves regardless of how pedestrian or unconventional the factors at play.

 

[NancyPan]

I think that all of us are affected by our environment and upbringing and the expectations that they impose upon us.

True, and for me, I was never comfortable with the “traditional” expectations of “male-ness” that I felt were imposed on me. I learned to play the role, but it was never the real me.

It takes time to find our true selves. And as married people that happen with a partner that is also trying to find their true selves. And that doesn't just happen singularly but rather while we are seeking to explore and evolve with our partner as we both go through that. If we are lucky where we land is reflective of our understanding of ourselves and our partner and compromises to reconcile the two.

Yes, yes, yes! It took a long time for me to first understand myself, admit to myself that it was “okay” to be who I was, then a great step to be open with her about me. It wasn’t easy for either of us, but it has definitely paid off and increased our friendship and intimacy.

Your submission to your wife is a by-product of all of that. Would she have adopted her role if not for your desires and her love of you and vice versa?

I know that her acceptance of me is an act of love and it intensifies my devotion to her. I know I am lucky, very lucky, to have her.

I am also lucky that there are women like you (not enough, which makes you even more special) who do understand and accept males like me. Thank you!

 

[Mike302]

My concerns my wife might "lose respect" for me because of our FLR / sex are really unfounded and just a "concern" I had with no basis in reality. Thanks.

 

[Wonderer67]

I think as long as you’re open, honest and have good conversation and discussion about your wants and needs, there should be no surprises.

 

[SlutAddicted]

My concerns my wife might "lose respect" for me because of our FLR / sex are really unfounded and just a "concern" I had with no basis in reality. Thanks.

Whether or not there is any basis for it in your situation, I would say that as a general comment it is a legitimate concern. There are women who would feel that way. However, I think that it would be more likely because they have some innate resistance to it. In that case they never would have started down the FLR path in the first place or if they did (for whatever reason including indulging their husband) they would have quickly realized it was not for them. Being all good for 5 years and then some new loss of respect creeping in when nothing else has changed seems much less likely or logical.

 

[LMWM321]

I struggle with the basic premise that your wife WANTS you to be passive then might resent or disrespect you for giving her what she wants. To my thinking, if that's what happens then it's her who needs to spend some time with a therapist, not you. Of course, if you're not quite understanding her needs - after years and years - then perhaps BOTH of you together need to talk to a therapist.

 

[Mike302]

Whether or not there is any basis for it in your situation, I would say that as a general comment it is a legitimate concern. There are women who would feel that way. However, I think that it would be more likely because they have some innate resistance to it. In that case they never would have started down the FLR path in the first place or if they did (for whatever reason including indulging their husband) they would have quickly realized it was not for them. Being all good for 5 years and then some new loss of respect creeping in when nothing else has changed seems much less likely or logical.

I agree.

Not quite 5 years though. More like 25!

 

[Mike302]

I struggle with the basic premise that your wife WANTS you to be passive then might resent or disrespect you for giving her what she wants. To my thinking, if that's what happens then it's her who needs to spend some time with a therapist, not you. Of course, if you're not quite understanding her needs - after years and years - then perhaps BOTH of you together need to talk to a therapist.

You're right.

She's a leader, likes to be in charge, likes plans, likes certainty, likes me to anticipate her needs / desires, wants me to be satisfied / happy. This is the relationship in general in addition to our sex. She does not want to be a nag and she doesn't have to. I know when I've fallen short and feel it. She expects me to know what needs to be done and do it to her satisfaction. She does so much for me / us and I can only try to keep up. We show and verbalize appreciation.

I have a few T-shirts she likes me to wear during pegging. One says, "Property of *Her name*", another says, "Yes, Ma'am".

She often leaves a pair of used panties out where I can easily find them if she's at work while I'm off in case I want to sniff them and masturbate. Nice, huh? BJ's whenever the mood strikes either of us. Sometimes I feel like I need it because I'm weak and grateful she does it. Other times I may be tired, but she wants it, so she gets it. Or she knows I know she wants it and it's best for "us" to do it. Basically 2/3 of the time I feel like I'm getting a BJ because it's something I'm doing for her because she wants it for herself and us. The woman has me feeling like I'M being dommed while I'm receiving oral sex. Masterfull!

 

[Showmewhatchugot84]

We seem to respect each other alot more when living the lifestyle