How to deal with some info

[KokopelliRises]

I too am sorry that things didn't work out. I also tend to agree that "abstinence" might have been a ploy to not get too involved.

From a personal standpoint, when "sex" was always in the forefront of my mind, relationships were always drudgery and ended badly. That is because I was focused on sex, not the person. In my late 20's I chose to be abstinent for no other reason than I didn't want sex to be a part of a relationship until a relationship even existed and then progressed to the point of sex. From that point forward I've always kept physical contact at arms length until I can determine that this is a person I'd be interested in continuing a deeper, connected relationship with. The difference between this and what Koko describes is that I was up front about wanting the relationship to bloom before allowing sex and hormones to take over.

I'm starting to think I should go back to my high school way of doing things. Building something up before the question of sex comes up at all. It just seems like I have so much less time now than then, but four years is four years. A little late to do it that way now, but I just want to figure out how it can be repaired to a point where something like that might be possible. Meh. Or maybe I should just give up on it.

 

[SweetErika]

I'm starting to think I should go back to my high school way of doing things. Building something up before the question of sex comes up at all. It just seems like I have so much less time now than then, but four years is four years. A little late to do it that way now, but I just want to figure out how it can be repaired to a point where something like that might be possible. Meh. Or maybe I should just give up on it.

You may not be able to repair it with this guy at all. However, you can certain try the 'relationship before sex' approach in the future and see how that works for you. With some people, it certainly does work better to put sex atop a good foundation of friendship and caring. Perhaps that's generally true for the type of person you want to be in a relationship with?

Of course if you're primarily looking for sex, FwB, or something similarly more casual, there are plenty of people who are into that, too. If you go this route, your best bet may be to expect for it to remain casual so you're not disappointed when it doesn't grow into something more.

A lot of this trial and error is something we all go through when we're growing up and figuring out what we really want. When things don't work out for you, it doesn't mean they never will or you have perpetual bad luck, it just means it wasn't meant to work out and you have an opportunity to learn, grow and try something different.

 

[fire_breeze]

Well, I have some news that's not good. It looks like the conversation may be delayed inevitably. He thinks it's not fair to me to start something based on this partially sexual relationship. There's so much I want to say like the fact that it can work out, but I know that I cannot sway the mind of someone who has had a lot of time to think about it. I saw so much potential, but again I have the idea reinforced that when I do something spontaneous it will always come back and bite me in the butt and that I'm not worth it to anyone.

Gah, this is so upsetting. Everything was going so well. How does one deal with something like this? How does one back off from someone who kisses so well and just knows how to do things so right?

Why can't I have anything turn out right in my life?

*cries*

{{{{{{}}}}}}

I'm so sorry that this happened. It hurts, I know .

With all the excellent insight, I would like to remind you to not forget to take care of you, to pamper yourself and to evaluate and refocus.

Good luck

 

[Cathleen]

Koko, I am so sorry for your hurt heart.

I'm a bit unsure of what you meant by 'the inevitability of the conversation' as well as his idea that it's unfair to you. With all due respect to him, it's not his call about what's fair for you, that's your decision.

Also, I wonder about all the things you wanted to say but didn't. I agree it can work out as long as you both have an understanding about what goes on in your relationship. I'm not sure 'sway' is part of this, your not selling him a vacuum and then trying to sway him to get the special attachments.

It seems like the sex is a bargaining tool and it just is hitting me as the wrong way to begin a relationship. You both need to make the decision for yourself, and taking sex out of the equation is necessary, in my opinion, it's mucking up the situation.

A note of possible caution, expectations are resentments in the making, IMHO.

I wish things had gone better but if you have unsaid things it might be best to say them.

 

[KokopelliRises]

An update

Yeah, I know it's been a while. I thought things were fine, before they blew up in my face.

Things have really gone to hell over the last month and a half and I could use help now, more than ever.

Let me see if I can explain things.

One night we were spending some time together, he expressed the concern that people would be mean to him because of me and because of our "relationship" (I do so hate that word). So I decided I was going to try to help. I went to a mutual friend's room and knocked a few times. She eventually came out and we talked. I explained the situation to her and asked her if she would help me out a little. She said it probably woudn't be that bad. So then I went back to my room and she to hers. Turns out I woke up her roommate who couldn't get back to sleep. I only found this out the next day at dinner. I apologized profusely to the roommate and I thought it would all be fine.

Boy was I wrong. The next week, on Tuesday I was having a really shitty day. Just one of those days that you're depressed and it seems like everyone is ignoring you. I was out at our dining hall for a late night snack, like I often do, and I was feeling especially ignored by this guy. So as I was leaving, I tapped him on the shoulder and said "I know you're ignoring me, but have a good night", and then left. I was in the lobby of the dining hall when he caught up with me. He said "let's talk". Because I didn't feel like spilling my troubles to him in the lobby of the dining hall, we walked back to my dorm. I only made it to the outside stairs of the dorm before I sat down and started to get all teary. He sat down with me and we talked.

He told me, in a way that must have appeared comforting, that the roommate was a bitch (exact word) and that I shouldn't take anything she said too seriously. Then, I guess once I seemed more coherent, he said something to the effect of "you just had bad timing with me". Being the curious person I am, I asked why. I don't remember what was said but it must have been fine with me at the time because I just let it drop. Once I had calmed down enough (and because it was getting really cold out) we went inside, and sat in one of the lounges nearby. We talked some more and he was very comforting. I told him he could go, multiple times, but he wouldn't, "until I felt better". He held my hand for a few minutes, to be nice I guess, and guess who should walk by but the roommate and a friend. She looked in, looking peeved at him, and said something to the effect of "we'll talk", he said to wait a few minutes. He told me I should go try to go to bed early and get some sleep (good advice) and walked me up to my room. We talked for a couple minutes outside my door, he gave me a big hug good night, and then I went in and got ready for bed.

Nothing happened on Wednesday. On Thursday, everything blew up. I was out getting the late night snack again and I asked if I could come back and watch some TV shows, like I had done a couple other times. He was reluctant and grudgingly said yes. I had a feeling all that time that something was wrong. Impending sense of doom. While we were walking down to his dorm, he pulled me aside and told me that Tuesday night the roommate and a few other girls had "talked" and yelled at him for an hour and a half, basically because of me. We went on and watched the TV shows, but he wouldn't even let me touch him the whole time. Afterwards, as we were all leaving, I asked him what happened Tuesday night. He was very flustered and very hesitant, but stammered out something that they had told him that I had had a threesome and that I was holding something over someone's head. I said "I don't know what that possibly could be. I don't have anything to hold over anyone's head". I got the impression that, despite what he said about not believing them, he believed what they said and was judging me that very second on it. He said "let's just be friends". I was upset at that point and he basically told me to please leave because there wasn't anything else he could say. I turned around and walked out the door. If I had listened to my better instincts I would have just left it at that. But no, I turned around and flipped him off. I regretted it instantly because I saw the sad puppy look in his eyes before I turned back around to go on my way.

When I made it back to my floor I went to a friend's room and asked her if we could talk. We went out to a classroom and I basically explained the whole thing to her, balling my eyes out. I tried calling him to apologize and got voice mail so I hung up. I called again and left a message saying that I was really sorry for what I did. I didn't sleep too well that night. On Friday I had a conference to go to in the afternoon and I was taking the bus to the location where my carpool was picking me up. I decided I'd try to call again and apologize. When I did get him on the phone I said "I'm really sorry for flipping you off. I was upset and it was really childish of me". All he said was "That's not necessary" and "I have to go now". After I hung up I looked for the bus, and saw him standing a couple hundred feet away. I wanted to go up and give him a hug and apologize in person, but I noticed the bus was there, so I got on it and left.

From the hotel I was staying at for the conference I called him to ask if he would go out to dinner with me on birthday (as I had hinted at a few times before) just as my friend. He said, "no, this is not a good time for this". I was devastated, but I had the conference to attend to, and to distract me for the time being.

On Monday I decided I would write him a letter, explaining things and my feelings and asking if we could just please talk about it. I sent it out on Tuesday. Thursday morning as I was leaving for class I noticed the letter and its envelope, along with an item of sentimental value, just sitting on the floor outside my room. I picked them up, shoved them in my pockets, and went off to class, where I couldn't pay attention, wondering what it all meant. That night, coming back from work, I eventually called him and asked if he had read it. He said, "Yes, that's why I gave it back" and told me that he was very busy studying for a very hard final and didn't have time to talk about it. I dropped the subject, and wished him a good night.

On Tuesday I called with a very well prepared script in mind, saying that I hoped he did well on his finals, had a nice break, and that we could have an adult conversation after the break. He said something to the effect of "we'll see about the circumstances" and hung up. I spent the whole break looking around the city we both live in, hoping that I wouldn't run into him. Nothing happened.

The Tuesday after I got back from break (that would be this Tuesday) I was talking to one of my very good guy friends online and telling him how this whole situation was really getting me down. He asked if I'd like it if he sent this guy an email. After pondering it for a while I said okay. My friend (let's call him L) sent out an email basically saying that he was worried about the situation and could this guy please explain it to him. The next day he got a reply:

"L, i would like to tell you, but anything I say tends to only make things worse. I'm sure her side of the story is what is important to you as her friend, and if she isn't telling you, out of deference to her I won't either."

Doesn't seem that bad, does it? I asked L to do me a favor and write a reply to the effect of, "It's not that she doesn't want to tell me what's going on. She's told me a lot about it, but she seems pretty frazzled. I don't think she entirely knows what's going on. She seems pretty upset by it, though."

Today, Friday, L got a reply. He told me I probably didn't want to read it, but I asked him to send it to me anyway. The reply:

"I'm sorry to hear that, because I spent hours, to try to explain to her. The result of which was not pleasant. I really don't want to talk to her anymore. And her actions following our last encounter, only strengthen that position."

I don't know what he meant by hours, because any explanation of any type I got was in the way of minutes. Honestly, most of it was a mystery to me. I just typed up my own letter, expressing how I feel about this all. I will likely never get up the guts to send it, now knowing he doesn't want to talk to me and that I would not likely get a reply.

What the hell do I do? I can't rid him from my life entirely (which is what I'd really like to do) because we share friends and go to the same activity club. I'd really like to try to repair things, to be on at least speaking terms (which I thought we were), but honestly, I'm feeling pretty hopeless right now. I never thought I'd get so invested in some guy that I never even more than kissed and cuddled with.

I'm sorry this was such a novel, but if someone could please help me I would really appreciate that kind of kindness.

Thank you, and good night.

 

[SweetErika]

This may not strike you as terribly kind, but I mean it to be, okay?

If I'm understanding things correctly, you're not in a relationship with this guy who believes in abstinence, nor have you ever been. You've been friends who have fooled around some and considered taking it to relationship status, but you've not gotten there. Is that right?

Nothing happened on Wednesday. On Thursday, everything blew up. I was out getting the late night snack again and I asked if I could come back and watch some TV shows, like I had done a couple other times. He was reluctant and grudgingly said yes.

This isn't terribly relevant, but I'm wondering why you didn't uninvite yourself when he didn't seem excited about you inviting yourself over to watch TV.

It is somewhat relevant, though, because when I look at everything you've described from what I'm thinking is his perspective, it may be the first clue that you were overly involved. On its own, it's not a huge deal, but when you add it up with all of your attempts to contact him, having your friend write him, etc., it looks like a bit of a pattern of, well, stalking. Perhaps that's too strong a word, but that's what I'd call it if someone kept contacting me after I indicated I didn't want to talk to them, at least for the foreseeable future.

I had a feeling all that time that something was wrong. Impending sense of doom. While we were walking down to his dorm, he pulled me aside and told me that Tuesday night the roommate and a few other girls had "talked" and yelled at him for an hour and a half, basically because of me. We went on and watched the TV shows, but he wouldn't even let me touch him the whole time. Afterwards, as we were all leaving, I asked him what happened Tuesday night. He was very flustered and very hesitant, but stammered out something that they had told him that I had had a threesome and that I was holding something over someone's head. I said "I don't know what that possibly could be. I don't have anything to hold over anyone's head".

Do you have any idea why these other girls are talking about you? Or why they'd yell at him for 1.5 hours over you?

But, more than that, why would he listen to them yell over you for that long? Even if he's just a friend of yours, why would he put up with that and not just shut it down or walk away?

Basically, if he's such a great guy and worthy of your attention and friendship, why would he be persuaded by others' efforts to put you down or smear your reputation, much less listen to such a thing for over an hour? Do you really want a person like that, a friend like that, in your life?

I got the impression that, despite what he said about not believing them, he believed what they said and was judging me that very second on it. He said "let's just be friends". I was upset at that point and he basically told me to please leave because there wasn't anything else he could say. I turned around and walked out the door. If I had listened to my better instincts I would have just left it at that. But no, I turned around and flipped him off. I regretted it instantly because I saw the sad puppy look in his eyes before I turned back around to go on my way.

You can't do anything about what you did, but you can learn from it and do differently in the future.

Flipping him off was perhaps immature and rude, but I see it as irrelevant. The important parts are:
- He told you what he wanted, and you refused (multiple times, really);
- You didn't listen to your instincts and regretted it;
- He judged you on what others said and didn't give you a chance to tell your side, even though you were friends.


And if you read the rest of your post, I'm sure you'll see how your behavior from this night on could be perceived as stalking/harassment. Furthermore, you've involved other people in this interpersonal issue, and that can't look good to this guy. Not that his opinion matters, but, with brutal honesty, involving others like you have seems immature at best. And that's not you - you're way better than these tactics.

"I'm sorry to hear that, because I spent hours, to try to explain to her. The result of which was not pleasant. I really don't want to talk to her anymore. And her actions following our last encounter, only strengthen that position."

I don't know what he meant by hours, because any explanation of any type I got was in the way of minutes. Honestly, most of it was a mystery to me. I just typed up my own letter, expressing how I feel about this all. I will likely never get up the guts to send it, now knowing he doesn't want to talk to me and that I would not likely get a reply.

To me, this is just more hard evidence that he's not the caliber of person you thought he was or someone you want to put any more energy into. At best, he's an exaggerator and/or has a skewed perception of actual events; at worst, he's a liar and/or has tried to turn L. against you by making you seem dense, extra crazy, etc. Truthfully, he sounds nutty all around, and not in a good way - definitely not the type of person you want to surround yourself with!

Whatever you do, do NOT send that letter! In my opinion, you've used up all of your chances to communicate/interact/clarify with this guy. If HE makes a very clear effort to communicate with you then perhaps you can open a dialogue to clear the air once and for all, but unless/until that happens, you need to stick to your 'I'm 100% done with him' guns. Seriously.

Remember that we're only hearing your side, and it could look much, much different and worse in his mind. For all you know, he could be ready to head on down to the courthouse to get a restraining order on you if you attempt to contact him in any way again.

What the hell do I do? I can't rid him from my life entirely (which is what I'd really like to do) because we share friends and go to the same activity club. I'd really like to try to repair things, to be on at least speaking terms (which I thought we were), but honestly, I'm feeling pretty hopeless right now. I never thought I'd get so invested in some guy that I never even more than kissed and cuddled with.

You might not be able to erase him from your life, but you can certainly go on living as if he doesn't exist. That's not to say you should totally ignore him if he tries to talk to you or whatever, but you really need to distance yourself physically and emotionally. Keep reminding yourself of the reality of your history and don't initiate any kind of contact with him under any circumstances. Don't talk to others about him, or allow him to use them to communicate with you, either. From this point on, he's got to be just some guy you kind of know socially/through other people and don't wish to interact with more.

Push yourself to rise above this mess. You've got to.


I'm really sorry if any of the above was painful, but I'm truly trying to be honest and helpful because I can see you're very conflicted and I believe you're an intelligent, caring person who's worth the honesty.

 

[quietwoman187]

I’m a bit concerned that someone in her early 20s, who is still in college values herself primarily on the sexual level. If you have a guy, who’s willing to have a relationship with you and get to know you without pressuring you for sex, then enjoy that. So, I don’t really contest a guy who believes in abstinence at age 20. As someone said, it’s a bit different in the 20s compared with the 30s.

I had a friend who, in college, always jumped into the sexual end of the relationship during the first 2-3 months, but mostly in the first 1-2 dates. While there isn’t anything wrong with that, what she wanted was a relationship and assumed the sexual would help jump start it. If the guy’s pressing in the first 2-3 months for sex, it’s possible that he likes you, but he’s also making clear that the sexual is a necessity and he might walk without it. So, if a guy isn’t willing to get to know you without the sex at first, you’ll have a decent relationship, but sometimes if you want the ‘long-term’ you might need to wait a bit. Perhaps that is what happened with you and your friend, but I don’t know.

When my friend finally stopped expecting sex to jumpstart a relationship and just waited to get to know the guy on a friend level, things turned out a bit better for her. She knew the guy as a friend for almost a year first. Then, when they started dating he waited 8 months before approaching her and they’ve been together for 5 years now.

I’m also concerned that you see his unwillingness to have sex with you as the end of the world. I wonder about how you value yourself. At this point I might suggest you see someone at your university.

“I will likely never get up the guts to send it. . . What the hell do I do? I can't rid him from my life entirely . . . I never thought I'd get so invested in some guy that I never even more than kissed and cuddled with.”

I think you can continue to be friends with this guy, just stop sending him letters and stop initiating contact. He’s already indicated he doesn’t want that. Do write them down for yourself, because it helps you express your ideas, just DON’T send them to him. Right now, I think he doesn’t want to speak to you and you should leave it at that. If you happen to hang out in a group together, don’t try to initiate contact voice-wise, eye-wise, or sitting next-together. Just treat him as you would an acquaintance you just met 15 minutes earlier. Maybe five months from now you can send a short letter saying ‘sorry for the way I acted, I was stressed. Thanks for dealing with it the way you did,’ but NOT anything else. For now, and as E suggested, don’t try to initiate voice or face-to-face communication. Just pretend he doesn’t exist.

If I may be so bold, I might suggest you maybe tamp down on the lit interaction and spend more time talking to your friends in the r/w. If you can’t, do post to us, clearly someone's always around. However, try to spend more time hanging out with friends (or joining other groups) which will get your mind off of him. You might want to take advantage of a walk-in service, 1-1 counseling, phone support, or a support group at your college. Maybe faculty advisor or the health center or can suggest who to go to, if you can’t. If you don’t already keep a journal, you might want to start. These will all give you outlets to talk about him without talking to him. Your focus on him might indicate something else. Because, as E says, you should consider yourself as better than him.

Anyways, rest, relax, watch chick lit, and eat chocolate. There’s someone else on the horizon. But, if there isn’t, you’re all that matters, and you shouldn't need someone to feel good. I always recommend 'Something New' as a nice chick lit or any of the recent Hegel films. So, take care of you and tell yourself how kickass you are each morning

 

[KokopelliRises]

Thank you all...

Thanks for confirming what I was thinking already.

SweetErika: Yes, that's right. I'm wondering myself why I didn't uninvite myself when I had the chance to. No, I don't have any idea why they would do it. They were people I thought I could trust but man did I find out wrong. I added him to this list as well, not long after. As to why he stayed the whole time, I don't know. I know he does have some self-confidence issues, but I can't imagine subjecting one's self to that much negative energy for that long no matter what kind of issues one has. As for L, he's seen my bad side and is still here, so I don't think he'd be too swayed. If anything, he might think that I got over-invested in all this (which is way true). The honesty was much appreciated. Thank you.

quietwoman187: Oh, I did enjoy it for the short time I had it. But that was more than a month ago. I have been trying to live in the real world for the last couple weeks because I know that that's where I have to be. School, work, and other activities keep me fairly busy, it's just meals and the off times that I get concerned and depressed. The journal sounds like a good idea. I've done that in other times of trouble and it helped me get through the day. I planned my weekend to be a time for fun things, other than the work I have to do. I'm going to see a speaker this evening and a concert one of my friends is in tomorrow afternoon. It should keep me distracted for the time being. Thank you for your advice.