I hate feeling hurt because strangers don't want to sleep with me.

[Cheyenne]

Whispersecret: Take out the part of your original post about you being married so you know someone liked you enough to marry you (since I'm not married), and then your post said exactly what I thought and felt. It is almost like you were in my head, taking dictation of what I was thinking.

And now I feel a little better, in a strange way, because I know I'm not the only one to have such thoughts and I probably am normal after all. Thank you.

[This message has been edited by cheyenne (edited 05-29-2000).]

 

[Svedish_Chef]

I didn't have you on my list.... damn! I told you I was drunk at the time, sorry! BTW who did I put down... I remember DCL but I can't remember any of the girls.

da Chef

 

[Neoapril]

Whisper, I think you said what some of us were thinking. Mainly "gosh, it would be nice if someone here would notice what a great person I am, and pick me."

Granted, it may be a little needy and/or juvenile, but still it warms the cockles of a person's heart to be included and wanted, even if it's by a bunch of people you will likely never meet!

Ah, well. Such is human nature. I think that the more introverted among us experience these feelings far more often than the outgoing people on this board. Nobody's fault, just the way things are.

Whisper, cheyenne, cyra, and nobody special, you're not alone. I'm here most evenings for anybody willing or desiring to talk. My e-mail is in my profile, and I'm reachable by AOL Instant Messenger under the name I use here.

Now, hopefully we can move on to something potentially more fun, like getting Lasher to do a "Cabbage patch", whatever that is!!

[This message has been edited by Neoapril (edited 05-29-2000).]

 

[Felix]

"The key to this business is sincerity. Once you can fake that, you've got it made."
-- Famous Hollywood saying

It's funny you should mention it, whisper, but I was thinking about this very issue just tonight.

My girlfriend doesn't mind being called cute, but seems happier when I use "adorable" in its stead. I think that she rather likes the idea of being adorable. When the moment comes, however, she definitely wants to hear sexy, beautiful, etc.; at those times, "cute" is used only at great peril. Similarly, I often use words such as "pretty" for more casual occasions, reserving stronger terms such as "beautiful" for special times when I can really focus the message.

Fortunately, I know this, and make a regular practice of showering her with endearments of varying types every day, generally accompanied by an appropriate physical response (e.g., hug, kiss, deep-throated growl). She really does NEED this EVERY DAY to maintain an even keel, much less be happy.

In many ways, the words themselves seem less important than her believing that I am paying REAL attention; or, to be more specific, offering genuine interest, recognition, and affirmation. For example, one day before we were dating, I gave her a ride to a group event. When she came down the stairs looking absolutely shattering in a little black dress, I was literally floored. I don't know if I was actually struck dumb (I must have stammered something blandly flattering), but I do know that my visceral response was a far more potent compliment than any flowery verse I could have offered. She now lists "The Look" that I gave her as one of the two strongest reasons we got together. For the curious, the other occurred when I drove her home later that night; along the way, I kept looking at her, and not once but TWICE nearly dropped my transmission by putting the car into reverse at highway speeds (the only time that has every happened, I assure you). I lost major guy cool points for both mechanical ineptitude and tipping my hand, but women seem love knowing that they have that degree of power over a man -- some sort of ultimate tribute -- and lose the battle, win the war is not the worst way for men to go in this regard. In any event, the rest was history.

To put this another way, the words themselves are far less critical than the sincerity of their presentation. Mind you, that is the PERCEIVED sincerity -- actual intentions are unfortunately of limited value in this context. This is a communication issue, and if the message is not believed, it is not received (do I sound like Jesse Jackson?). I suspect that women are desperately trying to see beneath the words to the heart that spawned them, but it is not generally a good idea to make them work too hard to find it. I find that physical reinforcement (especially a great hug) is an excellent complement to verbal endearments and seems to communicate on a different, more primal level.

On a related note, all of this is moot if one forgets the Three Little Words. My girlfriend and I spent years in a long-distance relationship and spoke on the phone every night. I resisted using the Three Little Words as a routine sign-off because I felt that it was too easy to slip into autopilot and say them without really paying attention.

Similarly, I know that when one person says them, the other person is expected to reply in kind, but I find the call-and-response expectation to be hollow at times. It is hard to get around this, so I tend to simply say them first. This allows me to feel less forced, and she enjoys it more -- especially when it really is out of the blue, and when I can put a little English on it (e.g., the deep soulful stare).

I know that at some level women can never really hear this type of thing often enough, but I try to keep ahead of the curve. I am fortunate in that my heart tends to sing when she's around, and I am not afraid to act foolish, so I generally manage to work things out. The way she lights up when I can share my joy with her is the best reward imaginable, and a strong motivator to keep me attentive. As a result, I think even she would admit that her Recommended Daily Endearment (RDE) requirements are getting met, and occasionally megadosed.

Some closing thoughts:

In looking over my response, I can see how it could appear contrived or mechanical to some women. In my case it generally is not, but the truth is that for many men this type of behavior is not only difficult but in fact counter-instinctual. It is not a lack of affection that causes men to resist expressing these sentiments, but rather an intrinsic aspect of their character. Bear in mind two things: men don't think in terms of compliments, given or received; and the prospect of genuine intimacy (even fleeting) is often terrifying to men.

Men are generally significantly more autonomous than women, and tend to work best alone or in limited interaction. In general, men don't expect to receive compliments, are often uncomfortable receiving them, and do not feel diminished if they go long periods without them. This the antithesis of the way most women function, and as a result, it is not at all obvious or intuitive to men that women feel these powerful needs that they themselves lack.

It is also clearly true that most men maintain a strong active guard on their deepest emotions. It is arguable whether this is a strength, but it is an undeniable reality. As a result, even if a man understands that a woman is seeking a direct and personal connection with him, he is likely to find the prospect daunting to say the least, and probably lacks the internal skills to allow himself to do so.

Whisper, you seem to be caught in this unfortunate loop. I know that it is less satisfying to have to explain both your needs and methods of meeting them, especially when your husband simply does not place the same significance on them. On the other hand, other than fortunate few mind readers among us, most men simply will not -- CAN NOT -- understand your perspective until you teach them. Don't worry so much about whether the initial prompted steps are lacking -- the point is not what he does today, but what happens next week, next month, and next year.

I might also suggest trying to find some alternate ways of meeting your needs that may be more compatible with the male thought process. In some cases, it will remain difficult for men to "remember" to initiate spontaneous intimacy, much less often enough to satisfy you, despite his genuine affection for and attraction to you. In this case (which in the end applies to most women, I suspect), I suggest focusing on the most important element: establishing genuine communication. There are different ways to achieve this. For example, you could from time to time sit down with your husband and ask that you take turns expressing in your own words how you feel about each other. This is awkward for most men, and they will likely be suspicious of some sort of "trap." If you can explain your need for affirmation, and perhaps leadoff with your own expression of affection, he may be able to respond in kind. It will not be easy at first (it would freak me out, and I know better), but hopefully the strain will ease over time. If you begin with fairly brief and relatively straightforward topics (e.g., your attraction to each other, appreciation for recent efforts) you may in time be able to proceed to more involved issues (e.g., WHY you are attracted to each other, HOW your feel about each other). Although such prompted discussions may be initially less satisfying than spontaneous compliments, they may in the end mature into much more vital and engaging interactions. Who knows -- eventually, he might even starting telling you how nice you look.

 

[MunchinMark]

On the second subject of this thread, it is actually quite difficult to keep telling your loved one how pretty/wonderful/sexy she is, you sort of feel, "I only said it a little while ago, surely she remembers."
OK she does remember, but she needs that confidence that the ego massage of a compliment gives her.

Girls, remember that, even those of us who write will run out of interesting ways to say things. It doesn't mean that anything's changed.

Guys, that's not really even the point, the cynic in me would point it out as an insurance against screwing up and not saying anything.
It's tough, but you've got to work at it. The reward is a happier SO.

[This message has been edited by MunchinMark (edited 05-29-2000).]

 

[Sammyjo]

No one wants to sleep with me either, but I'm not whining about it. I don't fucking care. This is the same attitude you should have. I am not prone to telling people how they should act, but yes, I do think it is utterly ridiculous that you took it to that extreme.

Nicole, there is no reason to apologize for posting something. My God, why is it that on a public forum, we are telling people that their posts have no place? Nicole has a valid reason for posting that. Hell, the other thread you were talking about happened months ago, how many people have come on since then? Maybe they would like to voice an opinion on who they want to sleep with (though, I'm sure if anyone actually met some of the people they put on their list, they would gag at the thought).

Also, there are thousands of posts. I would never go back through and look at ALL those postings. Some people may not have seen that first one. I am sure there are certain things that have been raised time and again, shaving, anal, oral, etc...and though there is an occasional smart ass that says "check the past posts", most people just answer. Just because something has been brought up in the past, does not mean that it can not be asked again. Not to mention the fact that if we didn't continue to bring up these same topics, we would not have so much to talk about. I mean, not everyone gives a flying fuck who likes what band or if Metallica rots in hell or if I drink piss for dinner (no, I don't, just an example).

I am sorry that you can't see past the fact that this is merely a bunch of cyber-friends, this isn't real life. Or maybe you do realize it and you choose to take every little thing and make it a jab at you.

I am trying not to be too rude here, I generally like you and respect what you have to say, but I think you need to figure out why this really bothers you so much. It is strangers for God's sake. It would make me happier if someone I know IRL would tell me they want me, as opposed to people who don't even know me.

SJ

 

[Lovely Latina]

Excellent post Sammyjo.

 

[Whispersecret]

Felix, if I wasn’t married and you weren’t involved, I’d find out where you live, pick up and move there on the off-chance that you and I might hit it off. Your girlfriend has someone special and I hope she never loses sight of that. I thank both you and Roger especially for the time you took to write such involved replies in an effort to help me out.

Roger, you are absolutely right. I know I have a low self-image as far as looks are concerned and my marriage isn’t winning any awards in the Blissful Category. I have a chink in my armor where all that is concerned and this thread was an arrow straight into it. But, like I said, I see that is MY problem. Not Nicole’s.

Nicole, I have seen how compassionate you can be on this BB, and I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings. Truce, okay? I truly meant what I said before. You should post what you want, especially if it's for fun. You are not to be held responsible for my own weaknesses.

Sammy, I have some things to say privately, but I don’t have your email address.
Now, I never ever thought that Nicole’s thread was an intentional “jab” at me (or at anyone). I’m not that paranoid. <growls> She was having fun, as were the rest of the people who participated. I never thought there was any malice involved. But neither was there malice intended in my own thread.

I merely wanted to state my feelings. Cheyenne’s post validates the value of that. My openness helped her deal with her own hurt feelings over this thread. Maybe there are even more insecure, irrationally hurt lurkers who benefited as well. In fact, I’ve seen you and many others post “cries for help/compassion/encouragement/hugs” for different areas in their lives. I think my thread falls into that category.

“Nicole, there is no reason to apologize for posting something.” I disagree. The concept of apologizing is important in every area of life. If you find out that you have hurt someone, even unintentionally, it’s only natural to want to apologize. Nicole was responding like a normal human being. When I saw that I hurt HER feelings, I apologized to her. That’s the way it’s supposed to be. That’s how people get past differences and move on.

I never once said anything to suggest that Nicole’s thread “had no place” on the board. The only thing I don’t think belongs here at all and should be banned (yes, I said the B word!) are deliberately hateful posts, designed to debilitate and destroy, i.e. Fake Name’s numerous piles of crap.

You had a valid point about recurring topics. I generally have no problem with people bringing up things that have been discussed before. It’s bound to happen. I stand corrected on that issue.

 

[Jade]

Whisper

I totally understand where you are coming from with this one and praise you for having the guts to say it, espescially to everyone here!

Sometimes,.. well, okay, often, I come to the board, and perhaps take some things a little personally and find myself caring what these people think about me, even if they don't really know me.

A lot of that is b/c I am so open here, and say so much about myself and reveal so much, intimately (sp?)... which leaves me vulnerable and both the good AND the bad, and so I get worried and I think that as people, no matter how old we get, be it little kids picking teams in grade school (which is a practice I happen to be against btw.... haha probably another thread!) or corporate "lookism" tactics.

Whatever it is all about, I just wanted you to know, that I admire you for having the guts to be honest about your feelings and I wish it didn't have to be so hard to feel "total" acceptance... sometimes it is almost like one has to "try" ... and yet, most of the people on this board, I feel are more real than other boards I have visited. Indeed, at this point in time, I don't find myself on any other boards.

At the very least, I feel quite sure that there are at minimum about 3 people (although I am qutie convinced there are several more) that are real, caring, compassionate individuals, (who know who they are), b/c they have been "ears" for me, when I had none here in "real life."
Thanks to those people.

Well, Hope I helped, at least a little...!

Luv
~Jade

 

[Felix]

Whisper, you are entirely welcome, and I hope that my thoughts can be of some value to you. I am deeply flattered that you believe that I would be a good match for an intelligent and caring person such as yourself. I think we both have different paths to follow, but if my girlfriend seems to be becoming insufficiently appreciative of her princely yet unassuming fellow, I'll sent her to you to get recalibrated.

If you can handle a last bit of kibbitzing, I have one more thought that you may want to consider, and I promise to be brief.

My point is essentially this: you are the only person who either responsible for or capable of effecting your own happiness. Regardless of who you marry or with whom you associate, you will not be satisfied unless you are happy with yourself. I recognize that this is easy to suggest and daunting to essay, but in the end it seems the only way to establish a ground base for the other aspects of your life. I am certain that others (undoubtedly including members of this board) can assist your journey, but to you alone fall the two sternest tasks: taking the first step, and believing in yourself enough to see it through.

Here's to good luck, best wishes, and an earnest reminder that if you haven't found something to like about yourself, you haven't been looking at the same whisper we see.

Felix

 

[Bossy Aussie]

Thank you, Sammy.

Bossy

 

[Felix]

Alright, you win the bet, but this time I REALLY have only one more thing to say.

Jade is right on the money when she makes an important point: you have already done a brave and difficult thing by acknowledging your discontent -- a feat redoubled in magnitude by the effort of doing it before the all the world (at least the right-thinking part).

If that isn't a great way to start, I don't know what is. Congratulations.

 

[Guest]

WhisperSecret.



I'm smiling 'cause I think you're probably really pretty.

roger
xx

 

[Whispersecret]

Thanks, Jade. <hugs> NOw that you mention it, it was pretty scary putting myself out there like that. I would see replies there and feel afraid to see what I would find. My deepest fear was that someone would see it and say, "Oh, who the fuck cares!" In a way, that did happen, and <chuckles> I didn't collapse into a heap of self-doubt and misery. Rather, I got pissed off.

Felix, I can't promise to do my very best at recalibrating the dingbat if she fails to see what a Prince she's hooked. But then, I would have ulterior motives. <winks>

Of course I know I'm responsible for my own happiness. I do quite a bit (maybe too much) self-analyzing. I'm well aware of the many contributing factors to my self image, believe me. And I have several things that I believe I'm fucking fantastic at, but I do appreciate your pep talk. Thank you for caring enough to give it to me.

And I think you're right. There are a lot of people out there who think they are doing just fine, but are fooling themselves. My husband is one of those people. A couple of years ago our marriage was REALLY crappy and we went to counseling. He insisted that he was happy and that things were fine. To me, that was simply impossible. If one spouse is miserable, thinking of divorce several times a day, there is no way that things can be fine. They could only APPEAR to be fine to one who was refusing to see the truth for whatever reason.

See? I told you I over analyze. SHoulda been a shrink.

Roger, you sweetheart. You made my day. If you were here, I'd grab your head and give you a big fat smooch on your cheek.

(Why do people sign their posts when their names are right there on the left?)

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by whispersecret:
If you were here, I'd grab your head and give you a big fat smooch on your cheek.

Why, Mrs WhisperSecret - is that you flirting with me? You're going to make me blush.



I'll be on the next flight.

(Why do people sign their posts when their names are right there on the left?)

(If I was sending a real letter my name'd be right there on the front of the envelope but I'd still scribble my signature and throw in a couple of kisses.)

roger
xx



[This message has been edited by roger simian (edited 05-29-2000).]

 

[Nicole]

To my sweet friend Sammyjo

Huggggggggggggggg Thank-you Babe, I love you (but you already know that)

I must admit that I did go off on the deep end the other day and for that I once again apologize, as you can see I did indeed remove my post. Sorry and yes "Truce".

Now lets all go have some fun

 

[Jade]

Whisper,

And I thought of something else...... for the most part, the great majority of us do NOT have pictures posted here, therefore, if someone puts you on their "fuck list" it is way more likely due to stuff you have said as opposed to what you look like.
How often can you "truly" be wanted and judged by what you say!!

Just imagine how many more people would hit on you if they could only meet you in person first!

Luv
~Jade

 

[Magic Merlin]

Whisper, Sammyjo

The names on my list were mostly of the women that I have bantered back and forth with here on the board. Whisper and Sammyjo, I definately have thought about what it would be like with both of you. More than once...

For me however, I have not interacted with either of you to any great extent, if at all. Thats the only reason, but yes, I have thought about it. I'm saying it now....And there are others, but for me I'm not really comfortable saying that to someone I have not at least spoken with...(I feel like I'm up to my ass in alligators here)

<thinking that I had better quit while I'm ahead>



[This message has been edited by magic merlin (edited 05-30-2000).]

 

[Bigdog]

Well, what's a few gators...

Whisper, I didn't really "exist" on this BB yet when the list thread started, so I declined to participate. I mean, how would it look for a guy who hasn't established a presence yet to list a group of women he would like to F**K nowing nothing about them? Might get ignored, more likely crucified.

This is not to say I haven't noticed several of the women on this board. Quite the contrary! I just haven't learned yet who I should just say "Hi" to instead of "Damn! Nice________!" (fill in body part of choice). And quite often, my wit isn't as funny as I thought it was before I posted it. I find it a little intimidating sometimes to reply to a post wondering if it will come thru in the tone I meant it, so I have been reading what other people say and how it goes over.

That having been said <smacks gator on nose>, I enjoy reading your posts and respect you for your candor. Not everyone can put their inner selves on public display, but you seem to speak from the heart and sincerity goes a long way in my book.

 

[Magic Merlin]

Whisper,

Bigdog said it very well. Thats exactly why I never put you on my list. I had not interacted with you at the time of the thread, and I would have felt uncomfortable listing you..<throws gator aside>

However, if there is ever another list on this topic, watch out, you may be the first I want to ravage.....

 

[Whispersecret]

Oh, great! Now people want to sleep with me because they feel sorry for me! I can see the new thread now: "Who deserves a nice sympathy fuck?" <wails, laughing>

<<<CAUTION! You are now entering The Vamping Zone. The Vamping Zone is for the give and take of flirtatious commentary. No Shit.>>>

<rolls up her proverbial sleeves> Well, hear this! In case you didn't read it on some other thread whose name I can't recall, I have been known to give HOUR LONG blow jobs. <coughs discretely> <pauses for that to sink in> <smiles smugly> That's right, boys. Okay. I only did it once. But if I did it once, I can fuckin' do it again. <narrows her eyes> So don't put ME on your pity list.

<frowns, peering at the back of the room> Hey, hold it down there in the back! No, you cannot take a number!

If we're talking pure unadulterated flirting (with no real chance of actual physical contact, due to marriage vows) then I'd fuck a buncha you men. Yeah. That's right! I'm not gonna name names because I don't want to be hypocritical about the whole list thing.

But if I have read your posts and thought that you were a sincere, thoughtful, caring person consider yourself an Official Teacher's Pet and Candidate for the 60 Minute BJ.

If I've read your posts and come to the conclusion that you have no depth at all beyond sexual innuendo and caustic commentary, your report card would read, "While So-and-So seems to enjoy coming to Literotica, he has trouble getting along with peers. Written and oral communication need to improve, and perhaps he should focus on extra-curricular activities other than sex."

<brushes her hands together briskly and gives you a curt nod>
G'night!

 

[Guest]

WHISPER SECRET



I'm smiling 'cause I think you're probably really pretty.

I mean... uhm... do you prefer Tolstoy or Dostoevski?

Actually, I'll have to go. I'm... uhm... teaching a flock of orphaned geese how to migrate in the Winter. Yes, it's quite ingenious the way I do it. I fly ahead of them in a light aircraft and holler encouragement out the window in geese language. They think I'm their mother.

(I wanted to incorporate a pun here involving gobbling geese and hour-long blow-jobs but I think I'm getting a bit out of my depth.)

rog
xx

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

"After I release the geese how about a little sucky, ducky?"

 

[Gil]

Whisper,

I also was not a "chosen one", but then I also chose not to choose anyone either, oh shit, oh dear.

Anyway, I've ALWAYS thought of you as "sexy", with occasional vivid images of petite you in a swinging basket...oops.

DCL, Roger,

Is there how the term "loose as a goose" originated?

 

[Havocman]

Second day back to the board, and I didn't want to comment on this thread but damn it all...

Whisper, if you'll remember a couple of months ago, I offered you a good roll in the hay over on the "prostitution legalized?"
thread...as a matter of fact, I believe Wordmage and Fallen Angel also got in an invite to ya...and you shot us all three down cold, all the while cutting your self down in the process...I mean, Hell I would've put you on my list (Asian heritage, school teacher authority figure, shorter than me, wants a good fucking up against a wall, what are you kidding me?), but you already had declined, quite profusely, any flirting...or so I thought.

You can't have it both ways babe, you can't play yourself out as someone that's not open to flirtation (remember how you started that whole thread to begin with?), and then some time later feel bad when the other reindeer don't pick you to join in reindeer games...figuratively speaking of course.

All that being said, that invite for a roll in the hay with a wild Libertine from the Heartland still stands...bring that Hour long sucking ability and cute little mole on your mound over here...and no this isn't a pity offer, remember I offered along time ago.

Havoc