If You're Good At Something, Never Do It For Free

[VallesMarineris]

I'm curious what your thoughts are on the dilemma between offering your writing here for free versus elsewhere for a price

There seem to be two questions here, judging from the discussion:

1) Is it worth the effort to try to monetize your work by becoming a full time writer?

Let me point out that this doesn’t need to be a dilemma. There’s a long list of successful, even famous, authors who kept their day jobs, often while writing quirky or genre works. For example:

Geoffrey Chaucer was a career politician.

Lewis Carroll was a professor of mathematics at Oxford.

Anthony Trollope worked for the Irish post office and wrote his novels on the long train trips he had to take for work.

Carl Sagan and Fred Hoyle both wrote popular and well-regarded science fiction novels while also doing significant astronomical research. (So they were successfully publishing in two different ways at the same time!)

One of my favorite authors is Catherine Webb, but don’t try to look that name up in Goodreads. Under the pen name Claire North she writes speculative fiction. (I highly recommend her latest work, a trilogy in which she reimagines the Odyssey from Penelope’s point of view.) She also writes fantasy novels under a different pen name. And Ms. Webb holds down a full time job as a stage lighting designer.

Somehow they figured out how to do both. Maybe you can too.

2) Is it artistically compromising to write literature to sell?

I think the answer to this question depends on your goals as an artist and the audience you’re writing for. Prolific authors such as Stephen King and Isaac Asimov seem to aim at the peak of the reader bell curve and are blessed with the opposite of writer’s block.

On the other hand, James Joyce spent 17 years writing a single novel that almost no one reads (or even can read), but which will probably outlive King’s and Asimov’s work by centuries.

So you want to get clear on your goals and your intended audience.

 

[Kasumi_Lee]

There seem to be two questions here, judging from the discussion:

1) Is it worth the effort to try to monetize your work by becoming a full time writer?

Let me point out that this doesn’t need to be a dilemma. There’s a long list of successful, even famous, authors who kept their day jobs, often while writing quirky or genre works. For example:

Geoffrey Chaucer was a career politician.

Lewis Carroll was a professor of mathematics at Oxford.

Anthony Trollope worked for the Irish post office and wrote his novels on the long train trips he had to take for work.

Carl Sagan and Fred Hoyle both wrote popular and well-regarded science fiction novels while also doing significant astronomical research. (So they were successfully publishing in two different ways at the same time!)

One of my favorite authors is Catherine Webb, but don’t try to look that name up in Goodreads. Under the pen name Claire North she writes speculative fiction. (I highly recommend her latest work, a trilogy in which she reimagines the Odyssey from Penelope’s point of view.) She also writes fantasy novels under a different pen name. And Ms. Webb holds down a full time job as a stage lighting designer.

Somehow they figured out how to do both. Maybe you can too.

2) Is it artistically compromising to write literature to sell?

I think the answer to this question depends on your goals as an artist and the audience you’re writing for. Prolific authors such as Stephen King and Isaac Asimov seem to aim at the peak of the reader bell curve and are blessed with the opposite of writer’s block.

On the other hand, James Joyce spent 17 years writing a single novel that almost no one reads (or even can read), but which will probably outlive King’s and Asimov’s work by centuries.

So you want to get clear on your goals and your intended audience.

I have a lingering fantasy of earning enough money from my erotic stories to write them full time, but I know the chances of succeeding (unless I expand into other genres) are tiny, so I do much the same as the authors you listed. I once discussed something like this thread topic with a reader who reached out to me, and he pointed out that no one is likely to write the "Harry Potter of porn" any time soon.

I suppose I could start writing romance novels instead, though I don't suppose I'll be the next Ana Huang any time soon, either.

 

[Mastered_again]

I write kinky romance and have no delusions of ever making money at it. Doesn't mean I'll give up story telling.

 

[StillStunned]

no one is likely to write the "Harry Potter of porn" any time soon.

I've seen enough Harry Potter fanfic to know that the "Harry Potter of porn" is Harry Potter.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Doing what I was good at for money is what kept me in trouble when I was on the streets.

 

[CockSparrow]

Doing what I was good at for money is what kept me in trouble when I was on the streets.

But you gotta love a girl for putting in the effort!

 

[MillieDynamite]

It wasn't actually that I wanted to be doing it. I had to eat, so I had to make money.

But you gotta love a girl for putting in the effort!

 

[CockSparrow]

It wasn't actually that I wanted to be doing it. I had to eat, so I had to make money.

Perhaps what I should have said is: If a job's worth doing, it's worth doing well. Or shall I just shut up now - before I dig myself right to the other side of the world?

 

[Mastered_again]

Perhaps what I should have said is: If a job's worth doing, it's worth doing well. Or shall I just shut up now - before I dig myself right to the other side of the world?

Quit while you're behind

 

[VallesMarineris]

I have a lingering fantasy of earning enough money from my erotic stories to write them full time, but I know the chances of succeeding (unless I expand into other genres) are tiny, so I do much the same as the authors you listed. I once discussed something like this thread topic with a reader who reached out to me, and he pointed out that no one is likely to write the "Harry Potter of porn" any time soon.

I suppose I could start writing romance novels instead, though I don't suppose I'll be the next Ana Huang any time soon, either.

My apologies, KL. I don't think I fully expressed my point. I meant to say that the writers I mentioned in my post thoroughly enjoyed their day job (except maybe for Trollope, and who knows about Chaucer). Certainly, astronomy inspired Hoyle and Sagan; Carroll included math in his stories; I follow Claire North on Mastodon and she really enjoys her lighting gigs.

I can't compare myself with those writers, but the world of high tech doesn't just pay my mortgage. It also supplies me with a lot of characters, incidents, and plot devices for my stories.

I have no idea what you do for a living, but you do it well enough to get paid for it. If you use that experience to gather material for your stories, then they're paying you for part of your writing process. Would that perspective work for you?

 

[TheLobster]

I've seen enough Harry Potter fanfic to know that the "Harry Potter of porn" is Harry Potter.

Don’t even need the fanfics. Just take the original and replace the last letter of every “wand” with ‘g’.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I've seen enough Harry Potter fanfic to know that the "Harry Potter of porn" is Harry Potter.

There's also this: https://www.goodreads.com/series/320290-trans-wizard-harriet-porber

 

[StillStunned]

There's also this: https://www.goodreads.com/series/320290-trans-wizard-harriet-porber

Like I said...

 

[MillieDynamite]

No big deal, sweetie.

Perhaps what I should have said is: If a job's worth doing, it's worth doing well. Or shall I just shut up now - before I dig myself right to the other side of the world?

If man has shovel, he must dig deeper, that's the rules. I don't make them, I just see that they follow them.

Quit while you're behind

 

[MillieDynamite]

Speaking being good at something, I told my cover creator i needed another just a friend cover and wanted the face of a transgender, before on one side and after on the other. Now yes, this is AI but she had to really work with it on the prompt and then rework both sides after.

What you think?

 

[CyranoJ]

I'm curious what your thoughts are on the dilemma between offering your writing here for free versus elsewhere for a price, regardless of the categories you write in, (the example of NC/R is particular to me). Does anyone else feel the same way I do?

I'm glad that I came to Literotica to try out the craft of erotic writing, which still has a place in my heart (and other body parts).

That said, once you can sell stories and/or make actual having-a-living money from other forms of writing, time spent writing free stories gets harder to justify. I still have ideas for Lit stories, but the last thing I actually posted on here was an "old" story I sold to an anthology, and the last thing I actually posted strictly for Lit is from years prior. I would still like to post stories here, but there is almost always paid work that is just a higher priority (and has to be), and so it never happens.

I think that pattern's going to hold for a long time. But I respect people for whom this is a fun hobby outlet as it initially was for me. Also, if you're getting genuine joy out of doing something, you're not doing it "for free." That joy is a currency all its own.

 

[CyranoJ]

Speaking being good at something, I told my cover creator i needed another just a friend cover and wanted the face of a transgender, before on one side and after on the other. Now yes, this is AI but she had to really work with it on the prompt and then rework both sides after.
View attachment 2350051
What you think?

Not a huge fan of AI art, it must be said, but this is impressive as a starting point.

If you have or can acquire the budget, I would take this to an artist as a starting point for a custom cover. I think a human artist could make this a lot more intentional and interesting but that it would be very useful as an inspirational image.

(Uh, maybe be careful about prefacing that interaction if you do that. Feelings about AI "art" in the creative community are pretty raw given the unresolved ethical issues about plagiarism. But you might be able to find an artist who's willing to interact with that content and refine it into a less machine-produced-looking image.)

 

[MillieDynamite]

The source image and the AI are Abode and done in Photoshop. No, you're right. Most artists aren't willing to make a painting based on a stock picture. It's allowed by Adobe, Amazon, and all sales outlets to use AI art as long as you admit it is AI and give the source of the production. As this is for a single story in Just a Friendly Series, series I'm not spending any of my money on it. Most of the time, I have no idea if the picture my publisher uses is AI or a stock image that my publisher has worked over in Photoshop. But making two faces (real faces) match with spacing of hairline to eyebrows, eyebrows to eyes, nose length, distance between nose and lips, lips and chin is impossible. Even two separate images of the same person are difficult to match up. This one is down and dirty and based off the original photo used for my first story in the series, Just a Friendly Drink, the model had his/her face like a man on one side and woman on the other.

Not a huge fan of AI art, it must be said, but this is impressive as a starting point.

If you have or can acquire the budget, I would take this to an artist as a starting point for a custom cover. I think a human artist could make this a lot more intentional and interesting but that it would be very useful as an inspirational image.

(Uh, maybe be careful about prefacing that interaction if you do that. Feelings about AI "art" in the creative community are pretty raw given the unresolved ethical issues about plagiarism. But you might be able to find an artist who's willing to interact with that content and refine it into a less machine-produced-looking image.)

 

[Kasumi_Lee]

I'm glad that I came to Literotica to try out the craft of erotic writing, which still has a place in my heart (and other body parts).

That said, once you can sell stories and/or make actual having-a-living money from other forms of writing, time spent writing free stories gets harder to justify.

I think that pattern's going to hold for a long time. But I respect people for whom this is a fun hobby outlet as it initially was for me. Also, if you're getting genuine joy out of doing something, you're not doing it "for free." That joy is a currency all its own.

This is exactly how I've long felt and continue to feel. In my case, the difference is that my preferred erotic genre NC/R is less welcome on ebook retail sites and more welcome on free sites like Literotica, and so I'm much more inclined to offer those kinds of stories here for free. Conversly, that means the more mainstream the erotic story I'm writing, the more welcome it is on the various ebook retailers, and the less inclined I am to offer it for free.

On the other hand, that means I can split the difference and get money and joy at the same time!

 

[ChasBozwell30]

I've sold stories before (horror, sci-fi, etc), but never thought about selling erotica. They've always felt like secret fantasies that this site's given me a wonderful outlet for. My stories here are for fun, but I've recently started to consider sending out erotica. What this site has shown me is how eager for it people are, and how much of an audience and a desire for it there is. It's very reassuring.

 

[alohadave]

Speaking being good at something, I told my cover creator i needed another just a friend cover and wanted the face of a transgender, before on one side and after on the other. Now yes, this is AI but she had to really work with it on the prompt and then rework both sides after.
View attachment 2350051
What you think?

Going on the assumption that this is MTF, flipping the image works better, IMO.

 

[MillieDynamite]

She hasn't finished trying to smooth out the transition between the two halves, but yes, it does work that way because we read left to right. Western minds tend to think left to right when they scan a room.

Going on the assumption that this is MTF, flipping the image works better, IMO.

 

[MrHereWriting]

I think that's very much dependent on whether we do this as a hobby or not. Personally, I have no intention of monetizing my writing. I prefer being read by as many readers as possible. Doing this for free also keeps me true to my preferences and kinks as there is no financial incentive to make me stray towards something more popular.
I wish there were more popular free story sites such as Literotica. Competition would make the conditions we publish under much better than what they are at the moment.

Just read an article about David Lynch being asked to direct Return of the Jedi.

David Lynch said:
I was asked by George to come up to see him about directing what would be the third Star Wars. And I had next door to zero interest. I always admired George. George is a guy who loves what he does. And I do what I love. The difference is what George loves makes hundreds of billions of dollars.

He also said:
George, bless his heart, I told him on the phone the next day that he should direct it. It’s his film. He invented everything about it. But he doesn’t really love directing. So someone else did direct that film. But I called my lawyer and told him I wasn’t going to do it. And he said, ‘You just lost, I don’t know how many millions of dollars.’ But it’s okay. (But what he said about George Lucas is true, and it shows in his movies.)

If you're not doing something because of you love it, something, whether it's quality, passion, or that special kind of magic that makes people tingle while reading, watching, or listening, gets lost in the final version of your creation.

People should do what makes them happiest (with their writing, in this case) I say.

 

[mentalmaven]

When the reason why you write is the love of writing then do not risk spoiling that relationship with thoughts about money.

Too many beautiful aspects of life have been perverted by the thought “can I make money off this?”

 

[oneagainst]

When the reason why you write is the love of writing then do not risk spoiling that relationship with thoughts about money.

Too many beautiful aspects of life have been perverted by the thought “can I make money off this?”

A little factoid I learned... median income for a best-selling fiction author in Australia is 18k. Same for a YA author is 14k. Erotica not even mentioned. The other required data point is that 20,000 ISBNs are issued in AU annually, of which 360 attract more than 10000 sales (ever, period, over the years) in a population of 26M. At $3 tops per book going to the author... uh... no one is in it for the money, hey.