I'm a beginner

[Missconduct]

Re: more info

That should be a warning sign if someone is not open about what they’re into up front.

He was up front about being into it from the beginning. He just wasn't comfortable talking openly about it with me, he said, because he had labeled me "vanilla." But, yeah, I was the first person he was up front with about it from the beginning and I did take THAT as a warning sign--as well as a sign of evolution for him. After all my research he said I had as much, if not more, knowledge as he did.

Not every BDSM is a real relationship. Some people are only dom and sub, not a couple outside of that.

This is where it got all complicated for us. It was like trying to have 2 relationships at one time, and neither of us knew what we were doing and we were both overly defensive.

I shouldn’t laugh at your pain, but that cracked me up. I picture a little kid: “All those bitches in kindergarten knew who was in charge. If they talked back, out came the wiffle bat!”

Oh no. Please laugh. I need more humor about all of this. If only he really HAD the experience from such an early age.

I wonder if he’d ever broken in a sub before. That might have made him nervous.

Not successfully according to him. Another potential red flag.

I’m not the most experienced at that myself. I’ve always tried to do a few isolated aspects at first: spanking, then regular sex; sex with her wearing handcuffs, but not cuffed to anything; anal if she’s never done that before, etc. Grill her afterwards to she how she felt and expand from there.

Funny, this is pretty much what the books say to do. And this is really how I wanted it to go.

I just remembered a conversation he and I had recently (after we broke up) where he said part of him wanted a more experienced sub to play with. But then I came along and surprised him. And that he didn't know why he couldn't tell me what he liked and wanted, he said it was like he had forgotten (again, the financial issues interfering I'm sure). But he said he had been a good Dom before. I asked him how he knew that if he could not accept feedback. And what will he be able to learn from an experienced sub when he has such difficulty accepting feedback. This is when he realized and stated that he should have been able to hear the things I was trying to tell him. That my feedback was not unreasonable or negative. He did not know why he took it negatively except that he felt like I was grading him and he got a poor grade--all I did was suggest he put a condom on the confound dildo. Sometimes he was so meek and un-dominant it made me wonder if it was him or me. Since he claimed to be so experienced, I assumed maybe I wasn't "submissive enough" to compel his Dominance.

He adamantly claims to not be a switch nor to be interested in submitting. But I wonder sometimes if he isn't beginning to head in that direction. Once, after a "mild" scene without voice control he quietly and politely asked if I wanted to suck his dick. I asked nicely, "Did you say 'Suck my cock, bitch?'" He laughed and asked, "Isn't that what I said?" It was a funny, sweet, intimate moment. But it still left me lost and confused, wondering where was all of this Dominance experience he spoke of so much.

Also, it's weird. As I said, we're still friends and hang out. It's actually been less stressful being just friends. But he does all of these traditional gentlemanly little things (which I LOVE but do not need) that he didn't used to do when we were together. Like, pouring beer into my glass when he sees it's low while conversing over dinner. Remembering things I like and pointing them out to me. Giving my order to the waiter. Serving me a slice of pizza first before himself. Opening doors for me. Even flirting with me a little. He did none of this when we were together. I'm certainly not complaining. But I do notice and I wonder if he's trying to make up for things going south. Or if it's just that since the pressure is off of the whole "relationship" button (which he detonated btw--I was just looking for a little companionship and to get to know him), he feels freer to treat me like a lady as it were.

{sigh} I really do adore him and so wish it had worked out. But I know we'll be good friends for a long time.

xx,

 

[Croctden]

Re: Re: more info

Funny, this is pretty much what the books say to do. And this is really how I wanted it to go.

Lucky guess. As I said I don’t trust books, I worked that out for myself.

He did not know why he took it negatively except that he felt like I was grading him and he got a poor grade--all I did was suggest he put a condom on the confound dildo. Sometimes he was so meek and un-dominant it made me wonder if it was him or me. Since he claimed to be so experienced, I assumed maybe I wasn't "submissive enough" to compel his Dominance.

I can’t offer any answers without knowing him. Subs who complain a lot are annoying (see “topping from the bottom”), especially if a Dom likes things certain ways. On the other hand communication is key and you should raise legitimate concerns. It’s a fine line. Again, if you are willing to be tied down and whipped, that is “submissive enough.”

He adamantly claims to not be a switch nor to be interested in submitting. But I wonder sometimes if he isn't beginning to head in that direction. Once, after a "mild" scene without voice control he quietly and politely asked if I wanted to suck his dick. I asked nicely, "Did you say 'Suck my cock, bitch?'" He laughed and asked, "Isn't that what I said?" It was a funny, sweet, intimate moment. But it still left me lost and confused, wondering where was all of this Dominance experience he spoke of so much.

I still can’t speak for him, but you might have misinterpreted that. I’ve done that implying it is a reward (hint: don’t say no). Being a Dom is not always yelling, sometimes it’s cherishing. Or it is for me.

Or if it's just that since the pressure is off of the whole "relationship" button (which he detonated btw--I was just looking for a little companionship and to get to know him), he feels freer to treat me like a lady as it were.

One repeated debate around here is if love and BDSM mix. I’m on the side it can be part of a caring relationship, but it is harder. Any time two people get together in any type of relationship the odds are against them. There are plenty of people who have found wonderful long term relationships that include spanking.

 

[Missconduct]

Re: Re: Re: more info

Subs who complain a lot are annoying (see “topping from the bottom”),

Are you referring to a thread or a forum resource with this title?

My understanding is that topping from the bottom means trying to manipulate punishment or telling your Dom/me what to do during a scene.

I did not try to have discussion or communication during a scene. I tried to open up dialogue outside scene space to find reassurance, reassure him, find out what he wanted, share my experience and ask questions. I wanted to know if my thumbs being numb for six weeks after being handcuffed the first time was right. If my vision being blurry and my eyes being red and puffy all afternoon from wearing a too tight blindfold would cause permanent damage. If the pain in my jaw from wearing a ball gag for over an hour the first time would eventually go away. I found answers to these questions in the books and on the Websites. I also wanted to know what turned him on about blindfolds and ball gags (I know what turns me on about them). I wanted to know how being in Dom space made him feel. How seeing me tied up made him feel. I've been told (and thought) that I was participating. However, if these are not legitimate complaints, concerns and curiosities, so be it. Again, I wish I had come here sooner to ask some of these questions.

My Master accused me of topping from the bottom, so I guess I'm feeling a little defensive on this subject. But he would not elaborate on nor clarify what he wanted and did not want. The literature he gave me said communication is key. If he did not want communication, it was up to him to clarify that to me. Heck, I'd have been happy if he simply said, "Shut up, get on your knees and no more talking. I decide when and what we talk about."

He clearly stated that he is a monogamous "non-swinger" who wanted a participating, interested and active partner. It seems to me that love and BDSM have to work together in this equation.

I understand that not everything is by the book. But that's all I had. So, I guess you Dom/mes out there who don't want to go by the book--perhaps it's best to let your subs know what you are wanting and expecting. Even if it is that you want to surprise them or simply that you only want them to do as you say in each moment. In which case, I think the big trick is to figure out how to keep your submissive coming back for more. I don't think this is possible without some form of interactivity: communication, verbal, non-verbal, actual scening...at some point you've simply got to interface.

It seems to me that BDSM is the last thing we should be doing by instinct and intuition alone. Every relationship, whether it's between a cab driver and a fair or a husband and wife relies on some form of communication and interactivity. The Marquis de Sade obviously didn't use any of the systems we use today. But back in his day, the only way to get a blowjob was to whip someone into submitting to giving one.

I hadn't thought about the reward voice thing. That was good news. Thanks.

xx,

 

[Ebonyfire]

By the Book

When one is saying doing things by the book, what book are we talking about?

By the Gorean Book(s)?

By the Leather Community book(s)?

By the Japanese BDSM Books(s)?

By the English BDSM Books (s)?

There are plenty of books out there. And even more schools of thought.

I doubt if most serious folks are going by inclination and instinct.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

My opinion on books is this: they are, at best, the description on how OTHER PEOPLE do it...YMMV, right Eb? You should read up...and then throw all the books away, and go by feel.

 

[Netzach]

Call me a big ol' fluffy service Top

But when I hurt people, be it in ways they love or ways they love to hate...

I prefer to be in control of *exactly* what I'm doing. I don't like the things I'm not even thinking about to be the source of pain.

I'm very old school about "bottoming up" for this reason...you know how it feels to wake up sore and TMJ-like from a gag the next day, you know *exactly* and it comes as no shock when your bottom experiences it.

 

[Croctden]

Re: Re: Re: Re: more info

Are you referring to a thread or a forum resource with this title?

I wasn't, but I can: https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=164704

My understanding is that topping from the bottom means trying to manipulate punishment or telling your Dom/me what to do during a scene.

I did not try to have discussion or communication during a scene. I tried to open up dialogue outside scene space to find reassurance, reassure him, find out what he wanted, share my experience and ask questions.

Once again with more knowledge of the situation my opinion changes. Always remember: "Outscene good, inscene bad. Outscene good, inscene bad. Outscene good, inscene bad. Four legs good, two legs bad. Err. Outscene good, inscene bad."

I understand that not everything is by the book. But that's all I had. So, I guess you Dom/mes out there who don't want to go by the book--perhaps it's best to let your subs know what you are wanting and expecting. Even if it is that you want to surprise them or simply that you only want them to do as you say in each moment. In which case, I think the big trick is to figure out how to keep your submissive coming back for more. I don't think this is possible without some form of interactivity: communication, verbal, non-verbal, actual scening...at some point you've simply got to interface.

It seems to me that BDSM is the last thing we should be doing by instinct and intuition alone. Every relationship, whether it's between a cab driver and a fair or a husband and wife relies on some form of communication and interactivity. The Marquis de Sade obviously didn't use any of the systems we use today. But back in his day, the only way to get a blowjob was to whip someone into submitting to giving one.

I'm not saying books have absolutely no place, just a very limited one. Of course you should talk to your dom. We don't read minds (at least I can't). Generally though I hate conversations in scene. If something is absolutely making you flip out, that is what safewords are for my dear. I always tell my subs to be confident to use them whenever they need, I won't be angry, even if I am.

 

[Missconduct]

Re: By the Book

When one is saying doing things by the book, what book are we talking about?

By the books he gave me to read from his library which I listed earlier.

xx,

 

[Missconduct]

Re: Call me a big ol' fluffy service Top

But when I hurt people, be it in ways they love or ways they love to hate...

I prefer to be in control of *exactly* what I'm doing. I don't like the things I'm not even thinking about to be the source of pain.

That's what I was thinking. I mean, if he wanted that, cool. But how's he going to know that happened if I can't tell him?

This is reassuring, thanks.

I'm very old school about "bottoming up" [/B]

What is the old school view on this?

xx,

 

[Missconduct]

more info

I wasn't, but I can: https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=164704

Once again with more knowledge of the situation my opinion changes.

I appreciate your flexibility a great deal. And I apologize for my crankiness last night.

Always remember: "Outscene good, inscene bad. Outscene good, inscene bad. Outscene good, inscene bad. Four legs good, two legs bad. Err. Outscene good, inscene bad."

Yes, yes. I shall remember this.

Generally though I hate conversations in scene.

Me too. Conversation is for over dinner or while crafting a St. Andrews Cross in the shop together. Scenes, sex, making out--these are not activities I do for the scintillating conversation. Although I do like demeaning and dirty talk (but you have to make me).

You people are wonderful, you know that? Thanks for taking all of this time with me. I am feeling tons better and gaining lots of beneficial and healing perspective thanks to you.

And I'm starting to want to scene again, yay! I have a dinner date with my Domme friend on Thursday. It is a date to make a date. LOVE that!

xx,