Image in Poetry

[PandoraGlitters]

Image grounds a poem in the body of the reader. Why write poetry without images? And in fact I can think of many very successful poems that are almost all image. They are poems because they transcend scene to create meaning, however subtly. For the reader to discover meaning within something that does not evidently argue nor beat itself on the chest is a moment of great pleasure.

You could write poems without any literal or figurative images. You could also have sex without touching. That doesn't sound fun to me, though.

The use of image in poetry acknowledges that the mind does not exist without the body. The heart is iambic.

 

[PandoraGlitters]

Problematic Image

a) The poem has images that are not clear because they are mixed up (this especially happens with figurative images). Example: I slide on the frozen lake of your love until I am lifted on its wings. Is the love a lake or a beast with wings? This confuses and keeps connection from happening between the reader and the poem.

b) The poem has images that are overused. Originality is what makes writing fresh. If an image has ever been played on the radio, it is no longer fresh. It's the mouthing of another person's once-fresh.

c) The poetry has images that cannot be imagined using the senses because the image is built with the wrong diction.

Or something like that.

 

[bronzeage]

i'm glad i'm not socrates. or a man. i get to sit in your lap?

It would be my delight.

 

[greenmountaineer]

I accidentally edited this post instead of quoting it so sorry about that GM. (Dora)

As I recall, GM said something like that he was fascinated by this topic and that he agreed with points a) and b) giving some examples including how this is why he would not write about things that were currently on tv or radio and how he once heard there could be no good political poems. Is that about right, GM? So so so sorry again about accidentally deleting 2/3 of your post. (Dora)

I can imagine what you mean by c) but am not sure and I think this may be the most important point of your argument. Would it be like a poem that sounds like a nursery rhyme, so you think of a nursery rhyme instead of what the poet is otherwise trying to convey? If I'm off base, can you help with another example?

What I mean is diction that is imprecise, general, or too nebulous because instead of concrete nouns the writer is using abstractions. Example: The invisible planet of my soul . . . blah blah blah. Vomit.

Is that more clear?

But you are right absolutely that diction can connote intrusive and oppositional meanings. (Sneaky little things, packing prior experiences under their loincloths, words. pfft. Who needs 'em?) :s

 

[PandoraGlitters]

UGH I DID IT AGAIN! I am so sorry GreenMountaineer. I should not be given computer keyboard abilities before I have had enough coffee. I replied to your post accidentally deleting it in edit. GRRR. At least I quoted the last bit. Please flog me with wet noodles. Anyway sorry about that.

 

[greenmountaineer]

UGH I DID IT AGAIN! I am so sorry GreenMountaineer. I should not be given computer keyboard abilities before I have had enough coffee. I replied to your post accidentally deleting it in edit. GRRR. At least I quoted the last bit. Please flog me with wet noodles. Anyway sorry about that.

No problem. You answered my question with the abstract vs. specific nouns example. I sometimes like to isolate on one aspect of poetry and lately it's been poetic diction. What drives me crazy is inverted word order for the sake of rhyme, e.g., "her lips I did kiss."

 

[Tzara]

I admire your prose.

Surely you have had training in rhetoric.

Ha ha. No, I am simply practiced in being rhetorical.




See especially the list of synonyms. Me all over.

 

[Tzara]

Image grounds a poem in the body of the reader.

This is particularly well said, PG. Image is what gives the reader the experience of the poet, what makes it an experience we feel or sense in something like the way the poet experienced it.

At least when done well.

The heart is iambic.

Well, the heartbeat (da DUH da DUH da DUH) is, anyway.

 

[champagne1982]

This is particularly well said, PG. Image is what gives the reader the experience of the poet, what makes it an experience we feel or sense in something like the way the poet experienced it.

At least when done well.Well, the heartbeat (da DUH da DUH da DUH) is, anyway.

Mine is syncopated - da Dubda da Dub... Stoopid extra-ventricular beat! At least it's unpredictable irregularity.

 

[Tzara]

b) The poem has images that are overused. Originality is what makes writing fresh. If an image has ever been played on the radio, it is no longer fresh. It's the mouthing of another person's once-fresh.

One of the problems with clichés is that they often are really good descriptions. Or were, originally. The overuse of a particular clichéd phrase deadens the language to the point that the reader doesn't really attend to the words anymore.

That's why, I think, they are difficult to weed out of one's writing. You have to read your work as if you were someone else who doesn't know what you are trying to convey.

 

[Tzara]

Mine is syncopated - da Dubda da Dub... Stoopid extra-ventricular beat! At least it's unpredictable irregularity.

Yours is a jazzy beat, m'dear, something we can all dance to,
because you lead us on.






Oh, hey. The conga line starts here...

 

[champagne1982]

One of the problems with clichés is that they often are really good descriptions. Or were, originally. The overuse of a particular clichéd phrase deadens the language to the point that the reader doesn't really attend to the words anymore.

That's why, I think, they are difficult to weed out of one's writing. You have to read your work as if you were someone else who doesn't know what you are trying to convey.

I take an opposing view to this when I consider clichés. If an idea conveys an image so well, who am I to discard it? Admittedly, if nothing within the poem refreshes that cliché and the whole thing remains trite, well then; the poet failed in the writing rather than the cliché spoiling the poem.

Fine line, I know. But I'd like you to consider one of my own uses in Never Brought To Mind: "young men of a certain age are putty in my hands" is awful! However, I think I redeem myself when later on: "... the putty boys had slowly melted away". Without the reference back to my original usage, the poem would have sadly been never brought to mind again, by anyone. I doubt I would have kept it at all.

But, you see my point, I hope. Indifference is yet another where I work to nullify the bad taste of clichés, this time through extended metaphor and unabashed usage of each and every tired old phrase. I don't mind clichés, I do mind leaving them stale.

 

[Tzara]

I take an opposing view to this when I consider clichés. If an idea conveys an image so well, who am I to discard it? Admittedly, if nothing within the poem refreshes that cliché and the whole thing remains trite, well then; the poet failed in the writing rather than the cliché spoiling the poem.

Fine line, I know. But I'd like you to consider one of my own uses in Never Brought To Mind: "young men of a certain age are putty in my hands" is awful! However, I think I redeem myself when later on: "... the putty boys had slowly melted away". Without the reference back to my original usage, the poem would have sadly been never brought to mind again, by anyone. I doubt I would have kept it at all.

But, you see my point, I hope. Indifference is yet another where I work to nullify the bad taste of clichés, this time through extended metaphor and unabashed usage of each and every tired old phrase. I don't mind clichés, I do mind leaving them stale.

Interesting idea, Champ. I wrote a short poem a long time ago (it was on that discussion forum we had for a while) that deliberately cross-wired a couple of clichés. Not exactly the same idea, but sort of close.

 

[theognis]

Sorry. I'm just using your line as example because I liked it and it led well into something I wanted to talk about. My assumption is that if you post on the forum, you are open to comments.

Wherever they might lead.

Yes, of course, to all that. But to me, none of that detail is relevant. I did not have your experience. You do not make the hair color relevant to me in your poem, though of course you could, but that would be a different structure to the poem. I'd actually write the line Her ponytail swung like a hypnotist's watch with no reference to color altogether.


Just me, of course. I am not you and do not know what you are trying to convey in your poem. Did love that line, though. For reasons cited.

I find myself liking Her brunette ponytail swung like a hypnotist's watch. I don't need to know how dark it is, but I like knowing it's dark. I can take it from there.

 

[twelveoone]

Image grounds a poem in the body of the reader. Why write poetry without images? And in fact I can think of many very successful poems that are almost all image. They are poems because they transcend scene to create meaning, however subtly. For the reader to discover meaning within something that does not evidently argue nor beat itself on the chest is a moment of great pleasure.

You could write poems without any literal or figurative images. You could also have sex without touching. That doesn't sound fun to me, though.

The use of image in poetry acknowledges that the mind does not exist without the body. The heart is iambic.

interesting
Ezra Pound
William Carlos Williams
Taniguchi Buson

not a iambic head in the bunch
confusion of body parts
in my heart's eye,

the body don't have much goin' for it without the mind