Interact 10 - Liar

[twelveoone]

Hands Feel Your Poetry Burning
by Liar ©

For those who can notice such things,
these walls must roar
in echo of sentences never spoken,
and other ungodly expressions never exclaimed
into the stale air, this perpetual stench,
indecisives' sweat impregnated
in eiderdown, oak and leather.

Amateur Hour recorded rhetorics
whispers past failures back at us.
Not that I listen anyway,
my focus strained to your voice
and your voice alone.

I knew you would choose your blues
for this karaoke kick with too much care.
It is open night on spit, and the mike
that is my perception, erect, anticipating
your growl and grip, is primed for action.
Satisfaction is a deepthroat grunt
of passing thresholds unknown to science.

And I wait, I wait,
I god damn piously wait for you
to stop talking..

...and start speaking..

You own the words... you carry them
like nitro, locked in a Pandora's Box,
suppressed to oblivion and shame.
But as tangible as your name.

Words you could never commit
to runes linked - they would scorch paper,
and wreak havoc if digitally committed
to transport through a fatal pixel push.

But spoken,
cutting and fusing new neural paths,
they would static charge your spine
and taste like scotch and semen
on your tongue...

...a semantic Sangreal spell that would
let me tear that skimpy see-though
Freudian slip right off your burning blush,
and pin your self promotion banter
to the nearest wall.

Teeth would sink softly into succulent flesh,
and god almighty, if you scream
and sing the way you can - between whimper
and borderline laughs - my Kool-Aid plasm will
once and for all purify into the true red
that paints your cheeks
in the complexion of clandestine claims.

One breath would drown in the other's salt,
and there would be no safety fuse...

...not since you scoured your closet
for the perfect mask, a deck of trump excuses,
and found that beautiful veil.
The only reason we'd ever need
to unleash each other's beasts.

Only then, you see,
only then can we cast aside
the robes, Jante's fine tuned straight jackets,
and leave this room as true humans...

...who didn't cower and shrink
to misconceptions of disapproval dreads,
who have no chains and will carry,
with pride, halos of splinter identities
in a sand paper smoothed world.

Speak, I beg you, speak those words
and shatter something still unknown
inside of me into glass dust
that can burn my veins clean,
tear those optic synapses apart
and let your ethereal fire forge me
sapient once more.

If those words and this room,
whatever it is that so desperately needs
to resound in here, can't heal us,
right this moment,
nothing ever will.

OK, I give up, what the hell is Kool-Aide plasm?

When I look at something, I look at the beginning, end, then the middle. Then I look for repeats.

Here Liar does not have a really dynamic opening, "walls that roar" appears in the second line, but he invites us in "For those that notice" is almost a dare.

The end is very powerful, I really should pay attention to this.

Now in the middle (Pivot point, most often), he does something, that shows me he has mastery of the form. One line apart "...and start speaking... "preceding that "And I wait, I wait,
I god damn piously wait for you
to stop talking.." another short grouping. Here he has one set of repeats "Wait" (3) followed by a beginning of the second (speak). This is the crux of the poem.

Most repeats act as reinforers for the message (see: Interact #4 Angeline - the Nightengale), he does the same with the word speak.

Now, this is where it gets really cool. Look at "wait". Remember we are dealing with the written word. Suppose I say:
I love you
simple enough, suppose I say the same in a sarcastic tone of voice, again saying it is simple enough, writing it, well that may be tough.

AND I wait, I wait
I GOD DAMN PIOUSLY wait for you...

"god damn" in small case will not alone get the message across, he joins it with piously. That and starting it with "and" I get the message of rising anger, sarcasm, AND the waiting may be just about over. It is this complex interplay of simple words, that conveys.

Take any out the meaning changes, I am very impressed with this. What say, Liar, is this the feeling here, you wished?

 

[Lauren Hynde]

At the risk of roiling up the crowd, I would argue that English IS a second language for most citizens of the US, now I'm not making an anti-immigrant statement, or an English Uber Alles statement, I'm refering to the home grown products of the so-called education system, the managing class.

Not wanting to sound roiled up, just not really understanding what you mean: do you care to expand on that?

Both Lauren and Liar have shown a precision and a care for the sound of the words that most "americans" wouldn't.

I do have an issue with writing something because it sounds cool, much prefering to hear that this was written this way to evoke an image or a feeling.

I don't think either Liar or I choose one word over another "because it sounds cool". I think we simply are aware that phonetics, rhythm, and semiots are as important parts of a word as is the word's objective meaning. Ideas and feelings aren't only evoked by objective dictionary definitions, but also by semiotic associations and by the sound of the words themselves.

 

[Liar]

Both Lauren and Liar have shown a precision and a care for the sound of the words that most "americans" wouldn't.

I think in Swedish. maybe that is why I found it dull and trite to write poetry in. Since I have it in my head all the time, I have grown immune to it. I can view English from the outside, and therefore have an easier time appriciating the structure, the rhythm and the melody of the language. Just a thought.

I do have an issue with writing something because it sounds cool, much prefering to hear that this was written this way to evoke an image or a feeling.

Its an interresting point. But I'm not quite sure I got what you were trying to say.

Anyone who writes a classic iambic meter sonnet or include alliteration, or internal rhyming in their freeform poetry (or write song lyrics) does this already all the time -- choose one word over another because it phonetically and rhythmically fits the form and the context.

If this is not what you mean by writing something because it sounds cool, then please clarify. I don't see why the melodic (for lack of a better word) element and the images they evoke should contradict. Om the contrary, a "cool" element may indeed ignite just the right feeling. And a poem that is written well, can be both. Like this one by an IMO brilliant poet (but I'm biased, form your own opinion). Read it out loud, and listen to the phonetic acrobatics. Then tell me that doesn't in itself add to the mood of the poem.

(if this isn't what you were saying, then at least I got me an excuse to post this nice poem )


Non Conformist Banter
by Linbido ©

This place a fray.
Afraid to stay too long,
belong some otherwhere.
The weary words still ring among
a mongrel crowd all pale,
all paying with adaptation.
They shun my crystal clear
all clear and cool ambition,
wishing nothing more than
modern comfort and numb peace,
dumb piece of dreamless dreams,
as streams still strident,
identity sternly stripped,
ripped clean, full of nowhere
to wear down this place.

 

[Liar]

OK, I give up, what the hell is Kool-Aide plasm?

Kool-Aid is a lemonade brand that I thought was pretty well known. It's kind of yucky and tastes as plastic and artificial as it is.

Plasm is what blood consists of if you take out the blood cells. I could had written 'blood' I guess, but to omit the imprtant parts of th blood mixute, I felt that I was left with a pointless filler liquid.

So we have artificial, thin, fake. And we have plasm, as in the stuff that, physically or more metaphorically floats in me. (as in "he's got Ireland in his veins")

Thin blood, cold blood, fake blood.
As opposed to:
Hot blood, red blood, boiling blood (and the kind of passion, emotion and determination that that implies.)

Something like that. I didn't think it through all that specifically. it sounded natural to me when I wrote it.

#L

 

[twelveoone]

First of all, it sounded cool. Sometimes that is enough for me.

Second of all, the poetry that is burning -- the words that are dying to get out, to get spoken. Third of all, those words are everything but spoken. This was a very specific moment between me and someone. I could see the words in her face, and I could feel them in the tenseness of her hands and body. The hands couldfeel what the ears couldn't hear.

Ok, back to work.

#L

"Sometimes that is enough for me" I realize statement may have been flip, and am glad to see more of an elaboration, what you meant by cool.

 

[twelveoone]

Not wanting to sound roiled up, just not really understanding what you mean: do you care to expand on that?

I don't think either Liar or I choose one word over another "because it sounds cool". I think we simply are aware that phonetics, rhythm, and semiots are as important parts of a word as is the word's objective meaning. Ideas and feelings aren't only evoked by objective dictionary definitions, but also by semiotic associations and by the sound of the words themselves.

Liar answered part of it for me, as far as an advantage, anyone that has to do some translation begins to see things both in his original language and the second language. I use the expression "I don't know (about that)" all the time, meaning I don't fully agree with that statement. About two weeks ago I had an interesting discussion about languages with a Chinese co-worker (he knows four languages, Mandarin, Japanese, English and whatever they speak in Manchuria), he told me when he came here, that was the hardest phrase for him, he was hearing it literally, or as I don't understand and proceed to explain further. Most Americans do not have to pay attention, so they don't.
The worst seem to be the ones that are creating Newspeak, "collateral damage" hiders of the truth, products of an "education". All you have to do is read just about any memo from an HR department. English is a second language for most Americans.

What do you mean by "semiotic associations"?

 

[twelveoone]

Liar, if I said "Hands Feel Your Poetry Burning" was a cool poem, how much information does that convey?
I don't think it was a "cool" poem, I think it was an excellent poem, I think it was constructed well and conveyed meaning.
For example:
"a semantic Sangreal spell"
is certainly better than
"Can't find the right word"
in the context of what is around it.
I think it is a highly cerebral, intelligent poem, a bit sarcastic, and when you think of it quite a bit ironic.
No?

 

[Liar]

Liar, if I said "Hands Feel Your Poetry Burning" was a cool poem, how much information does that convey?

Depends on your definition of the word. If I say that a poem is cool, I'm hinting that it had a certain attitude, a certain ambition and inventiveness that make it stand out. A very very good poem can be very un-cool.

I don't think it was a "cool" poem, I think it was an excellent poem, I think it was constructed well and conveyed meaning.
For example:
"a semantic Sangreal spell"
is certainly better than
"Can't find the right word"
in the context of what is around it.
I think it is a highly cerebral, intelligent poem, a bit sarcastic, and when you think of it quite a bit ironic.
No? [/B]

Sarcastic? Perhaps, but it was written in more of a state of frustration than anything else, and as such a bit hyperbolic (I still think I mix too many metaphors and references). But quite honest.

Ironic...do you mean that there is an ironic tone or something ironic about the poem itself. Please elaborate.

 

[Liar]

Now, this is where it gets really cool. Look at "wait". Remember we are dealing with the written word. Suppose I say:
I love you
simple enough, suppose I say the same in a sarcastic tone of voice, again saying it is simple enough, writing it, well that may be tough.

AND I wait, I wait
I GOD DAMN PIOUSLY wait for you...

"god damn" in small case will not alone get the message across, he joins it with piously. That and starting it with "and" I get the message of rising anger, sarcasm, AND the waiting may be just about over. It is this complex interplay of simple words, that conveys.

Take any out the meaning changes, I am very impressed with this. What say, Liar, is this the feeling here, you wished?

I had this idea once about recording this and submitting it here as an audio poem. It faled because I couldn't get past some lines pronounciation-wise. Anyway, when I came to those lines, they always came out as a kind of suppressed snarl between clenched teeth. As if wanting to scream it out, but keep it quite to not wake the neighbors. Yes, I think you got it as I intended, as the voice of someone whose patience is wearing thin and starting to crack from all the pent up...i wouldn't say anger, just frustration.

#L

 

[twelveoone]

Depends on your definition of the word. If I say that a poem is cool, I'm hinting that it had a certain attitude, a certain ambition and inventiveness that make it stand out. A very very good poem can be very un-cool.
Sarcastic? Perhaps, but it was written in more of a state of frustration than anything else, and as such a bit hyperbolic (I still think I mix too many metaphors and references). But quite honest.

Ironic...do you mean that there is an ironic tone or something ironic about the poem itself. Please elaborate.

Ironic in the sense, it seems to be about about a communication break down, yet this communicates it so well.
I thank you for sending me this, as with all the Interacts, I have come away with a greater appricaition of the authors and their works. Your use of metaphors and references was quite apt here. You may wish to explain some here. The two minor objections, I heve here is :Kool-Aide Plasm (covered above) and Freudian slip, which I can't really decide if it is a chiche or if it slipped over to a common usage of speech.
"semantic Sangreal" pisses me off, solely because you got to it first, my "Promised Land" in a later part uses "Sangreal" and parts of it deal with semantics.
Liar, if I had a hat, I would take it off to you. I think it is that good.

 

[Liar]

On request: A reflection on Jante.

This took a while to formulate. Hopefully it makes sense....


For those who don't know the literary reference, Jante is a place in a novel by the Danish author Aksel Sandemose. A village where the inhabitants live by a very strict thought control. All kinds of self-assertion is looked down upon and boasting about achievemtns is pretty much a big no-no- You're not even supposed to think you're good. Or even good enough. This is Jante's Law.

The way I and most people use the Jante reference is taken out of it's original context, and the expression Jante's Law or just Jante in general has become a symbol for a very common mental and cultural trait that lies heavily on too large parts of mankind.

It's not just about bad self esteem, although that is an expression of the same pattern of thought. It's all those things rolled up into one. Jealousy of other's success, downplaying your own qualities and achivements, downplaying your own right to pursue happiness, your own need for personal improvememt.

Jante is present in individuals all over the world, (I daresay that among a bunch of artists like us I'm not the only one.) but as a general cultural trait, a very Swedish or maybe Scandinavian thing. A little less lately, as we are becoming more and more Americanized. But it's still there. Toot your own horn in the workplace too much and you risk becoming the one noone wants to sit next to at the coffe break. It works the other way around too. Compliment someone else for a job well done, and you are seen as pushy and over-social (and with a hidden agenda). In it's trail follows those nasty little thoughts that can drain you of all reasons to go on.

I'm not special.
I have noghting to contribute to the world.
Why bother making an effort?
Ok, maybe I could do great deeds, if only I could move my lazy ass.
Which I can't.
So I pretty much suck.
Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated.

Those kind of thoughts.

Jante is my enemy, a cancer on my mind, an ugly little parasite fucker clinging on to my spine, and I spend every day of my life trying to smother it. Some days are better than others, and days that I in some small way can see that someone somewhere gives reaction to what I do and say, those are the good days.

That's probably the main reason why I write poems. Because I can. And because it seems that it touches people. Every poem I write does not always have a deep and personal message, but every poem, as well as every other work in other creative venues, is a little "Hello!" with the hope of an echo.

You do a good echo in this place. Thank you all.

#L

 

[twelveoone]

Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated.
The Swedes are the Borg?
I am glad you brought up Jante.
"the robes, Jante's fine tuned straight jackets,"
It is a perfect example of the use of a reference as expansion of meaning. jd4george had some interesting things to say on references in Interact 5, but I thought it may not have been developed enough.
"Hands feel..." stands pretty much on its own. I derive meaning from it as is, without having to do much homework.
I miss some of it because I do not know Liar, i.e. his definitions may not be the same as mine, witness above arguement over "cool". Certain words, references that are in "Hands..." give me a little glimpses of who Liar may be, further enhancing the meaning. (Meaning and commincation are pretty much the same thing used here.)
Here he throws Jante at us. Suppose he writes without Jante>
"the robes, the fine tuned straight jackets"
He also talks about Freud, on sees also a rising frustration, teeth etc., without Jante this has a tendency to take the meaning in a slighly different direction, doesn't it.
"Jante" is an uncommon reference point for most Americans, but it serves two purposes, it narrows the meaning of the sentence, and it expands the meaning of who Liar is, further enhancing the total meaning of the poem. First of all, everthing must have some meaning, why bother writing, reading, etc. The object of Poetry is to communicate something.
"Jante" is an uncommon reference, but adds. I had to "google" it, it took me 2-3 minutes to pretty much isolate the meaning, I was sure this is the Jante he was useing. It is a good reference.
Liar, I thank you, wish you luck, and warn you, as you become more Americanized, you will find our Memes may be even more cancerous than "Jante".