Interact 6 - WickedEve says

[twelveoone]

Re: Re: Re: After the Fall

Religion (a twisted southern religion) has had a big influence on my life and poetry. Sex, well, I'm a sexual creature. Actually, I'm fascinated by it, often amused by it. I wrote an erotic story about 5 years back about Eve, Satan, the garden and sex. Best thing I ever wrote, because that's where I got my Wicked Eve name and that's how I met my Master. Then in my earlier years at lit, I wrote a poem that had much to do with sex and religion. It's not online now. It's buried somewhere. I'll have to dig it up.

Will you post it here? The poem?

I remember, something else really cool you did, I will be bringing it up later.

 

[WickedEve]

I'll look for it. It's a few years old and I'm sure when I read it again, I'll be horrified by it. Actually, it may be on the board. Maybe early 2002. Redwave did an interview about it. He was the only one who liked it a lot. lol And I think it rhymed. I only did rhyme when I first got here.

 

[twelveoone]

I'll look for it. It's a few years old and I'm sure when I read it again, I'll be horrified by it. Actually, it may be on the board. Maybe early 2002. Redwave did an interview about it. He was the only one who liked it a lot. lol And I think it rhymed. I only did rhyme when I first got here.

Seems to me I saw a couple of forms from you, forms have rhymes.
But that leads me to a question.
To rhyme, or not to rhyme?
For the good of the audience, can you expand on this, why the abandonment?

 

[WickedEve]

Seems to me I saw a couple of forms from you, forms have rhymes.
But that leads me to a question.
To rhyme, or not to rhyme?
For the good of the audience, can you expand on this, why the abandonment?

I dislike simple rhyme patterns with simple rhyming words. They can ruin an otherwise good poem. I've read poems about all sorts of sorrows and tragedies, where the poet insists on using couplets AA BB CC and so on. And to make matters worse, they rhyme words like me and see or love and above. This leaves the poem sounding very much like a sad nursery rhyme. Personally, I prefer terzanelles, which have rhyme, but it's a much more challenging form.

 

[twelveoone]

I dislike simple rhyme patterns with simple rhyming words. They can ruin an otherwise good poem. I've read poems about all sorts of sorrows and tragedies, where the poet insists on using couplets AA BB CC and so on. And to make matters worse, they rhyme words like me and see or love and above. This leaves the poem sounding very much like a sad nursery rhyme. Personally, I prefer terzanelles, which have rhyme, but it's a much more challenging form.

sounds like a challenge:

I love
you above
see?
or it that being greedy of me?

terzanelles? tell us about... and why that form?
how often to you do line scanning, and tell us about it?

 

[WickedEve]

terzanelles? tell us about... and why that form?
how often to you do line scanning, and tell us about it?

Terzanelle is a fun little poetry game.

Here's how to do one:
"The terzanelle is a modified villanelle. It uses the terza rima's interlocked rhyme pattern, but fits the villanelle form of five triplets and a quatrain. In addition, the middle line of the 1st stanza becomes the third line of the next stanza, and so on, such that the terzanelle is a huge pain, but worth the effort and determination to finish."

It's addictive. I love it when it falls into place.

Scansion. No. I don't mark my lines into feet. The most I do with a terzanelle is read it aloud to see if has a good rhythm. Many times I'll count the syllables in each line and try to keep them near the same length. I'm actually working on two terzs right now. I'm trying to loosen up a little like Ange does with hers. I'm usually pretty strict with mine. I repeat my lines word for word, which is a real challenge to get all the lines to fit together in way that makes sense.

Here's one from April. It has humor, but at the same time, it let's you know to beware.

Did You Wash Behind Your Ears?

A daffodil pierced the lobe of night.
Now "sleepy head" clings to trumpet corona,
impeding words' bloom in morning light.

Bedded and soiled, a seed in wee Mona,
she nods in dreams to Mum's early song.
Now "sleepy head" clings to trumpet corona.

Silence flowers from the petaled throng,
when slumber entices better than suds.
She nods in dreams to Mum's early song.

Syllabic morn dews the deafening buds.
A blossom sprouts from the dirtiest ear,
when slumber entices better than suds.

She never listened, too late to hear--
barely eve and moon stalks the sun.
A blossom sprouts from the dirtiest ear.

voices sleep when a garden's done
a daffodil pierced the lobe of night
barely eve and moon stalks the sun
impeding words' bloom in morning light


This one is from a year ago and it may read a bit smoother than the one above:

Taking Life In Stride

In rain, through leaves, toward sun
She walks past my window always
Winter and summer melt into one

I watch her form shift these days
Stone by stone rebuild the temple
She walks past my window always

To see her now, the change is simple
Though voices tell of no ease
Stone by stone rebuild the temple

Not for him, herself to please
She has tread upon those years
Though voices tell of no ease

Down the path again she nears
Fading ever away and distant
She has tread upon those years

I know her only for an instant
In rain, through leaves, toward sun
Fading ever away and distant
Winter and summer melt into one

 

[WickedEve]

Here's one that I like. It's about a year old. I just noticed that I cap the beginning of each line. I was doing that with my older ones, but not the newer ones. I suppose it doesn't matter, though. But wait, the first line in stanza three sounds a little off and I just realized that stanza 4 isn't right. The first line should be the third line. I don't know what happened there. This is why a poet should try to put aside a poem for awhile and then reread it before submitting it anywhere. The mistakes show up much easier. This needs an edit!

Not Nearly Heaven
by WickedEve ©

Light lulls us toward halo illusions.
We are bare beneath fluorescent hum,
Though, I do embrace our conclusions.

Again, choral sighs, not the harp's strum.
Place slender faith in beliefs we capture.
We are bare beneath fluorescent hum.

Impressions silk whisper our rapture,
No winged hollows on tangled sheets.
Place slender faith in beliefs we capture.

No winged hollows on tangled sheets;
We press not with angelic grace.
From this liaison paradise retreats.

To strive for heaven is no disgrace.
Let us love with the fall of angels.
We press not with angelic grace.

Tender doubts, God never dispels.
Light lulls us toward halo illusions,
Let us love with the fall of angels,
Though, I do embrace our conclusions.

 

[twelveoone]

I dislike simple rhyme patterns with simple rhyming words. They can ruin an otherwise good poem. And to make matters worse, they rhyme words like me and see ...This leaves the poem sounding very much like a sad nursery rhyme. .

Oh well,hate to mention what I was working on... no, wait it is a sad nursery rhyme, it might work.

I was going to write a modified villanelle, replacing some of the repeating lines with "Fuck you, you know what goes here" and "ditto".

The terzanelle is the one form that I read, mainly because it takes me three times through before I realize it is a form. You've fooled me a couple of times.

These are quite good, as always you impress.

If I remenber correctly, both the villanelle, and the terzanalle are modified French forms; the sonnet from Elizabethian England. The language dictates the form in a way, English has done a considerable amount of mutation since. The tendency being to fit uncomfortable words into old boxes.

Humour me here:

"Light lulls us toward halo illusions.
We are bare beneath fluorescent hum,"

are two great lines, how would you rewrite as a start for free verse?

And another question, you have to write something because of (or about) an emotional impact, what would YOU chose, terzanalle or free?

 

[WickedEve]

I was going to write a modified villanelle, replacing some of the repeating lines with "Fuck you, you know what goes here" and "ditto".

I've come close to writing that. lol Both forms can be a pain.

These are quite good, as always you impress.

Thank you. But they still need work. Most of my terzanelles are about 90% good. They're never quite right, though. So, I keep practicing. It's an obsession now.

If I remenber correctly, both the villanelle, and the terzanalle are modified French forms; the sonnet from Elizabethian England. The language dictates the form in a way, English has done a considerable amount of mutation since. The tendency being to fit uncomfortable words into old boxes.

I know the terzanelle is a modified villanelle. I don't know about the villanelle. I haven't read as much about that form. I wrote one in the past but didn't find it as interesting as my preferred form. "fit uncomfortable words into old boxes" is a great line for a poem.

Humour me here:

"Light lulls us toward halo illusions.
We are bare beneath fluorescent hum,"

are two great lines, how would you rewrite as a start for free verse?

Some of my terzanelles have been rewritten into free verse. I think most of them have a good free verse hidden in them.

I could easily do several different rewrites with this poem. First I cut out the repeating lines and looked at what I had left. I kept six of the lines:

bare beneath fluorescent hum, light
lulls us toward halo illusions. we press
not with angelic grace. no winged
hollows on tangled sheets.

to strive for heaven
is no disgrace. let us love
with the fall of angels.

Of course, I could add some new material. Maybe change the line breaks. I think there are enough interesting lines in the original to make two poems out of it.

And another question, you have to write something because of (or about) an emotional impact, what would YOU chose, terzanalle or free?

Many times I turn to the terzanelle because I'll come up with one or two good lines but can't come up with anything more. So, I'll start a terzanelle and that's when it all falls into place. The form guides me through the poem. As far as emotional poetry, usually I'll choose free verse, but I have written a few of the other. Though, if I'm upset and writing, I can't do a form like a terzanelle. You need to be calmer and allow yourself to think and work with the lines. I do have one terzanelle on the suddenly thread. It's not easy to write a "suddenly" terzanelle. lol And it's emotional, too. It's about my car accident in March. That's one I'm reworking now. It has great lines but needs to be edited or made into free verse.

 

[jd4george]

Realizing the amount of time and thought you put into your work, and your deft handling of classical forms, I am awed by your artistry.

In comparison, I constantly ignore rules. Unlike you, the only part of "classical" that I do well is the "ass" part.

Which makes me realize that I need to try my hand at a terzanelle. I'm just not sure whether I should thank you, or curse you!

 

[WickedEve]

Realizing the amount of time and thought you put into your work, and your deft handling of classical forms, I am awed by your artistry.

In comparison, I constantly ignore rules. Unlike you, the only part of "classical" that I do well is the "ass" part.

Which makes me realize that I need to try my hand at a terzanelle. I'm just not sure whether I should thank you, or curse you!

I prefer the curse. Thank you is easy. Curses take effort.

 

[The_Fool]

I prefer the curse. Thank you is easy. Curses take effort.

And curses are quite often more heart-felt...

 

[jd4george]

Okay, then consider yourself cursed with the assumption that it is okay to send you whatever feeble effort I may create and say "whaddayathink".

Seriously, I do respect your dedication to forms, and your obvious talent with words. I'm not sure whether you actually answered this earlier (and I'm too lazy to go back and look)... but where did the fascination with the terzanelles (and other classical forms) come from?

You see, you have a knowledge and command of those devices that I both respect and am humbled by. I don't think I'm the only one that wants to say, "Damn, girl, howdcha git so good at that?"

By the way, I was pleased to hear you say that you revisit and labor over older work. I tinker with stuff even decades later! I think a few too many poets-of-today simply write stuff and leave it in their wake... which isn't fair to them, or their poems.

 

[WickedEve]

Okay, then consider yourself cursed with the assumption that it is okay to send you whatever feeble effort I may create and say "whaddayathink".

Seriously, I do respect your dedication to forms, and your obvious talent with words. I'm not sure whether you actually answered this earlier (and I'm too lazy to go back and look)... but where did the fascination with the terzanelles (and other classical forms) come from?

You see, you have a knowledge and command of those devices that I both respect and am humbled by. I don't think I'm the only one that wants to say, "Damn, girl, howdcha git so good at that?"

By the way, I was pleased to hear you say that you revisit and labor over older work. I tinker with stuff even decades later! I think a few too many poets-of-today simply write stuff and leave it in their wake... which isn't fair to them, or their poems.

I like the challenge of the terzanelle. It's more of a game to me than just writing poetry. And I'm not much for change. I'll eventually find some other form to play with in about 15 or 20 years. lol Even though I like that form, I still prefer free verse most of the time.

And for no particular reason, I'll share this: Earlier today, I was looking up various poets online--famous ones, ones that I hear Angeline and others talk about. I realized that I need to read more and discover what all the fuss is about. (By the way, Ange, if you read this, check your box for a Ginsberg question. ) Then it dawned on me that I need to write more about my life here in this small, southern town. I need to be known for something. When I die, if anyone remembers my poetry, I want them to remember the big way I saw my little world.

 

[twelveoone]

I Then it dawned on me that I need to write more about my life here in this small, southern town. I need to be known for something. When I die, if anyone remembers my poetry, I want them to remember the big way I saw my little world.

I will (assuming you go first)

I on the other hand, when I die, want to be forgot for the small way I saw what was on the other side.

I feel I'm in for a numinoius ass whoopin'

 

[WickedEve]

I will (assuming you go first)

I on the other hand, when I die, want to be forgot for the small way I saw what was on the other side.

I feel I'm in for a numinoius ass whoopin'

Well, I think you're all finished with me and my poems. So, who's next? I have suggestions. Can I mention names here or do I PM them? By the way, this was a lot of fun. I learned some things too. I learned that some my poems need editing and that I don't know very much about poetry. But I'm working on that. This has inspired me to learn more.

 

[flyguy69]

... Then it dawned on me that I need to write more about my life here in this small, southern town. I need to be known for something. When I die, if anyone remembers my poetry, I want them to remember the big way I saw my little world.

Jesus, Eve, why don't you just blow pepper in my eyes? I can feel the inscribed stone beneath my fingers.

Thanks, 1201, for orchestrating another wonderful chapter of Interact. It was delightful to get a glimpse of the big, beautiful brain behind Eve's enchanting poetry.

 

[The_Fool]

By the way, I was pleased to hear you say that you revisit and labor over older work. I tinker with stuff even decades later! I think a few too many poets-of-today simply write stuff and leave it in their wake... which isn't fair to them, or their poems.

I might be willing to argue with you about that sometime...

 

[WickedEve]

Jesus, Eve, why don't you just blow pepper in my eyes? I can feel the inscribed stone beneath my fingers.

Thanks, 1201, for orchestrating another wonderful chapter of Interact. It was delightful to get a glimpse of the big, beautiful brain behind Eve's enchanting poetry.

Thank you for saying brain and not ass. (my ass is not big! sorry, I have this ass thing that I'm not going to talk about.)

 

[flyguy69]

Thank you for saying brain and not ass. (my ass is not big! sorry, I have this ass thing that I'm not going to talk about.)

Boy, am I glad to hear that. I sure don't want to talk about your ass. Your ass is the last thing I want to talk about. I'd rather talk about almost anything rather than about your ass. There must be a million things I'll talk about before I'll talk about your ass. Your ass is so low on the list, I might never get there. In fact, I can't think of anything I would talk about after your ass. Your ass is absolutely untalkaboutable.

Sooooo.....

 

[The_Fool]

Now that we have assertained that Eve has an ass...

 

[twelveoone]

Well, I think you're all finished with me and my poems. So, who's next? I have suggestions. Can I mention names here or do I PM them? By the way, this was a lot of fun. I learned some things too. I learned that some my poems need editing and that I don't know very much about poetry. But I'm working on that. This has inspired me to learn more.

As far as suggestions go, either way, most have emailed me. I would like to mention, that I disagree with that song
"don't know much about poetry"
you are singing, you know more than you say and enough to know how far there is to go.
As far as editing goes, I have posted things, as soon as I go read the comments, I see things that I would have liked to changed, even it wasn't mentioned.

I am glad you had fun, if you are done, I will wrap it up, I do want to post at least one more. In interact 5 jd4george talked about the use of references (or allusions), one of yours is a good example of how to go from here to there in a matter of seconds with this use. Plus it has, what I perceive, a mistake.

I also have to do a summary, there is something here, I don't think I've seen, it is worth saying again.

 

[flyguy69]

...
I also have to do a summary, there is something here, I don't think I've seen, it is worth saying again.

Just don't mention her ass.

 

[twelveoone]

From here to there in five lines

http://english.literotica.com:81/stories/showstory.php?id=145449

jd4george had a nice discussion on the use of references in Interact 5;

Scream
by WickedEve ©
-
©2002


In the night kitchen,
where grandparents cloned
American Gothic in scream masks,
gaunt and frozen,

bones climbed mine like ivy,
then spread beneath the table,
her oval fear elongating
into Munch's scream.

Hush, Hannah, hush.
We will lock the screams away.

I always liked this, she takes you from "American Gothic" to Munch's "Scream" in five lines, pulling in the two paintings to suppliment the imagery in the poem.

 

[twelveoone]

What is wrong with this picture

Remember those things, they used to give you when you were 5 years old "What is wrong with this picture"

Scream
by WickedEve ©
-
©2002


In the night kitchen,
where grandparents cloned
American Gothic in scream masks,
gaunt and frozen,

bones climbed mine like ivy,
then spread beneath the table,
her oval fear elongating
into Munch's scream.

Hush, Hannah, hush.
We will lock the screams away.

one word, one phrase, seems not to work, and should be changed