Interact 8 -

[tolyk]

OK, this has got to be the weirdest thread ever.

A couple of considerations:

There isn't one single one-bomber; there are many, there will always be many, and with just as many different motivations. They aren't, unlike you might think, out to get you; when they drop the bombs, they do it indiscriminately, hitting whoever happens to be in the wrong place of the top list, for example.

Finally, how do you tell one-bombers from the legitimate voters? There are five possible votes, and each person has its own set of rules. Senna Jawa, that some have mentioned here before, for example, voted 1 or 2 on several of my poems, with or without explanation, but always believing that was what the poem deserved.

Voters don't have to explain themselves; it would be nice, but they don't have to do it - I for one wouldn't want them to have to do it - and if explanation is so important to you, you can simply disregard all votes and dumb-fuck comments and simply look at the constructive feedback you received. It's as simple as that.

So, Twelv'O, if you're after The Most Useful Criitical Comment, here it is:

Get over it and write, instead of wasting your energy and everyone else's patience hunting ghosts.

I believe I said something similiar (though you made your point much clearer ) to the people over at the AH, well said Lauren

 

[twelveoone]

OK, this has got to be the weirdest thread ever.

A couple of considerations:

There isn't one single one-bomber; there are many, there will always be many, and with just as many different motivations. They aren't, unlike you might think, out to get you; when they drop the bombs, they do it indiscriminately, hitting whoever happens to be in the wrong place of the top list, for example.

Finally, how do you tell one-bombers from the legitimate voters? There are five possible votes, and each person has its own set of rules. Senna Jawa, that some have mentioned here before, for example, voted 1 or 2 on several of my poems, with or without explanation, but always believing that was what the poem deserved.

Voters don't have to explain themselves; it would be nice, but they don't have to do it - I for one wouldn't want them to have to do it - and if explanation is so important to you, you can simply disregard all votes and dumb-fuck comments and simply look at the constructive feedback you received. It's as simple as that.

So, Twelv'O, if you're after The Most Useful Criitical Comment, here it is:

Get over it and write, instead of wasting your energy and everyone else's patience hunting ghosts.

" Then it dawns on him, maybe they are illiterate, since he never sees anonymous over here, only over there.
Either they are reacting to the pop up adds, or the blue letters on the other side.
Correct me if I’m wrong.
If you can get somebody to read this for you."
Just testing something Lauren, I guess I was right, they don't get over here none of my scores where lowered.
I'm sorry I wasted your patience, Lauren, this in part was prompted by what I saw in other threads. As said above, I intend to edit above, I was using this as a juxtaposion of worthless to what has value, like real critcism. Also what do people see when they leave critcal comments.
To the best of my knowledge, Senna Jawa has never left a comment on mine, but I do treasure my YDD's
Since, you're here, what do you look for, what prompts you to leave comments?

 

[twelveoone]

Re: Interact 8 - Comments

The real purpose of this thread, has to do with looking at criticism. What do you look for before you leave a comment, what do you see when you receive a comment that is less then a stellar review?
How much are you locked into what you perceive poetry should be, do you look outside your favourites?
What are the comments that prompt you to make improvements.
Who impresses you with their comments? Why?

WickedEve and jd4george have always impressed me, both by number and suggestions left on poetry that is outside their syle. Question for them, do you feel it helps you also in your art?

 

[WickedEve]

Re: Re: Interact 8 - Comments

The real purpose of this thread, has to do with looking at criticism. What do you look for before you leave a comment, what do you see when you receive a comment that is less then a stellar review?
How much are you locked into what you perceive poetry should be, do you look outside your favourites?
What are the comments that prompt you to make improvements.
Who impresses you with their comments? Why?

WickedEve and jd4george have always impressed me, both by number and suggestions left on poetry that is outside their syle. Question for them, do you feel it helps you also in your art?

Reading the new poems and offering suggestions is definitely a learning experience for me. I'll even copy some of the poems and rework them before making comments. Most of the time, I personally benefit from doing that. Actually, that's how I learned site design. I've designed a few business sites for cash. I never took any classes. I simply went online and opened up sites in front page, then took them apart so I could it figure it all out. I suppose one can do the same thing with poetry.

 

[Guest]

senna jawa left a comment that has impacted my poetry. He said that words like "it's" were not necessary the way I was using them. That's not exactly how he put it, but close and the comment was actually made to alana edgar, I think--one of my other user names. So, now I drop little words that serve no purpose. Boring example: "It's a dark and stormy night and I hear something weird on my front porch." I could write: "Dark and stormy night, weird front porch noises." I'm guessing the possum is back.

I have a case of the "it's" too, also coming down with some "as". Seriously I am. I like doing short, impact lines, and I think I'd strengthen my work if I could get over the short useless words, but sometimes I just don't know if "it's" meaningful or not.

Any Rx on my it's and as?


- neo

 

[Guest]

ohh, thats a good idea. I want to thank Senna Jawa for hurting me with wonderful advice .
He wrote in in a PC, that I should not use personal opinion type words, they assign too much to the writer and leave nothing for the reader to give the poem to make it their own, they are too subjective, yet confining ( well, thats paraphrased, but thats what I got from it.

He doesnt leave PC's very often, and that was very good advice for me, I still think of it when I write, but that it was pointed out so bluntly, kind of embarrassed me I think and it stung, it felt like well, criticism!!

anyway, Senna Jawa, thanks for the constructive crit

I

Guilty of that too, but working on taking My, I, and Me out of it. Sometimes it works and looks all right and other times it doesn't because most often the subject of my poems is moi.


- neo

 

[tungtied2u]

I have a case of the "it's" too, also coming down with some "as". Seriously I am. I like doing short, impact lines, and I think I'd strengthen my work if I could get over the short useless words, but sometimes I just don't know if "it's" meaningful or not.

Any Rx on my it's and as?


- neo

Zit's on your ass? Changing your detergent could help.....

 

[Christina O. Leigh]

Ooo!

....................

 

[tungtied2u]

Stephen Dobyn's says poetry is for the reader...so if you can't communicate what you're trying to say to the reader...you are not succeeding .

I've heard all about writing for one's self...cathartic and I do that sometime's myself....but a serious poet is trying to commi=unicate his feelinf=gs on the human condition to others..and if that doesn't happen...you are not succeeding...IMHO.

 

[twelveoone]

Re: OOO!

Oh dear....
This is scary...
Should I stay
Or should I go now?....
Damn, I'm gonna be singing that song all night!

Ah hell! I got my shitkickers on. I can take it! There's always gonna be an asshole or two in the crowd. I say, don't give up because of it. Not always are we gonna like what others say, and not everyone is going to like what we write. Just have to take the good with the bad.

You know who are our worst critics, right? WE are!
Cheers!
Keep writing all

there is a difference between being critical and being an asshole, the point here. Part of helping ourselves become better self critics inside is listening to outside criticism, learning how to be critical.
Maybe I'm using the wrong word, "critical" seems to have a negative connotation.
Taking the good with the bad is one thing. The intent of the joke (which some did not get) at the top is that bottom bombing is not even bad criticism, it has no value at all.
On the other hand, reading critical comments left on other people's postings are sometimes more of a learning experience than just looking at the poem.

 

[twelveoone]

I have a case of the "it's" too, also coming down with some "as". Seriously I am. I like doing short, impact lines, and I think I'd strengthen my work if I could get over the short useless words, but sometimes I just don't know if "it's" meaningful or not.

Any Rx on my it's and as?


- neo

I don't know if this helps, I would take them all out, and then put them back only if helps the flow.

 

[WickedEve]

I have a case of the "it's" too, also coming down with some "as". Seriously I am. I like doing short, impact lines, and I think I'd strengthen my work if I could get over the short useless words, but sometimes I just don't know if "it's" meaningful or not.

Any Rx on my it's and as?


- neo

I can't give up my as. I seriously need that little word. What about "that"? I heard someone say something about "that". Is it a good word to use or not? You know, something like: He reminded me of the blue baby that bounced too hard.

 

[Liar]

I can't give up my as. I seriously need that little word. What about "that"? I heard someone say something about "that". Is it a good word to use or not? You know, something like: He reminded me of the blue baby that bounced too hard.

How the hell would I had written this without 'that'?

Seriously folks, every word is a good word. If you know what effect it has. That's what it's all about. I use a helluvalotta as and it's and and and that and I ain't gonna stop when I feel it fits the style, just to get stringent. Letters aren't that expensive you know.

Eve, you have a nice as.

#L

 

[Liar]

And Lauren is right. Onebombers are very seldom personal. Because anyone who gets targeted and then immediately runs off to bomb your stories and poems just ends up looking silly, petty and childish.

And the few times that people we know of actually are doing it.... fuck'em. It's their own ass they drag in the mud much more than yours.

#L

 

[WickedEve]

How the hell would I had written this without 'that'?

Seriously folks, every word is a good word. If you know what effect it has. That's what it's all about. I use a helluvalotta as and it's and and and that and I ain't gonna stop when I feel it fits the style, just to get stringent. Letters aren't that expensive you know.

Eve, you have a nice as.

#L

Okay, I will write that as often as possible and that's that.

 

[Christina O. Leigh]

.............

..................

 

[Christina O. Leigh]

.............

....................

 

[WickedEve]

Re: hmm

What just happened to that other post?
I'm lost again.

Tell me this will stop soon. I hate being new, said again.

I think I need major sleep!!!

*gets blankey and snuggles next to sweetheart*
Nite nite to me.

You're going to fit in perfectly here.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Originally posted by twelveoone
" Then it dawns on him, maybe they are illiterate, since he never sees anonymous over here, only over there.
Either they are reacting to the pop up adds, or the blue letters on the other side.
Correct me if I’m wrong.
If you can get somebody to read this for you."
Just testing something Lauren, I guess I was right, they don't get over here none of my scores where lowered.

Some of them don't, some of them do; you're missing the point.

"They" are not out to get you. "They" couldn't care less about what you say. "They" simply strike whoever happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Originally posted by twelveoone
I'm sorry I wasted your patience, Lauren, this in part was prompted by what I saw in other threads. As said above, I intend to edit above, I was using this as a juxtaposion of worthless to what has value, like real critcism.

If you really believed that one-bombers and anonymous "critical" reviews were worthless, you wouldn't have given them a second thought, let alone start a thread about it.

Personally, I value all anonymous input I get; most of the votes I get are anonymous, and a considerable chunk of the feedback as well. I take them (all - anonymous or not) with a grain of salt, obviously, but the truth is that most times there is no way of telling anonymous bombs apart from anonymous genuine votes, and those are as big an indication of wether or not you're getting the message across as you're going to get.

Originally posted by twelveoone
Also what do people see when they leave critcal comments.
To the best of my knowledge, Senna Jawa has never left a comment on mine, but I do treasure my YDD's
Since, you're here, what do you look for, what prompts you to leave comments?

When a poem is good and I can point out the reasons why I thought it was good; when I feel the author needs that input, of knowing what worked on that occasion; when I genuinely feel I have something to add to the discussion, I leave a comment.

When a poem doesn't work but I can see a genuine effort being made, I leave a comment pointing out what didn't work and why, for me, personally, as a reader.

My voting scale goes from 1 to 5, and I honestly and objectively vote using all 5 options. My comments always reflect that.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Re: Re: hmm

You're going to fit in perfectly here.

Definitely!

 

[twelveoone]

Criticism as Inspiration

Some of them don't, some of them do; you're missing the point.

"They" are not out to get you. "They" couldn't care less about what you say. "They" simply strike whoever happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.


If you really believed that one-bombers and anonymous "critical" reviews were worthless, you wouldn't have given them a second thought, let alone start a thread about it.

Personally, I value all anonymous input I get; most of the votes I get are anonymous, and a considerable chunk of the feedback as well. I take them (all - anonymous or not) with a grain of salt, obviously, but the truth is that most times there is no way of telling anonymous bombs apart from anonymous genuine votes, and those are as big an indication of wether or not you're getting the message across as you're going to get.


When a poem is good and I can point out the reasons why I thought it was good; when I feel the author needs that input, of knowing what worked on that occasion; when I genuinely feel I have something to add to the discussion, I leave a comment.

When a poem doesn't work but I can see a genuine effort being made, I leave a comment pointing out what didn't work and why, for me, personally, as a reader.

My voting scale goes from 1 to 5, and I honestly and objectively vote using all 5 options. My comments always reflect that.

Lauren, as far as your comments go, and your voting goes, you have my admiration, I wish I had more guts to vote less than 100, I rarely do, sinking only to 50, once, twice?
I draw a distiction between anonymous "critical" and nasty anonymous wisecracks. I haven't checked so I don't know, but up until that point, I haven't received nasty. I do have a degree of frustration if anonymous "critical" leaves a point that is of great interest that is worth pursueing, well-end of conversation. Anonymous nasty I've seen on others, it hurts me to see that.
Now, I'm telling you I come from a comedy background, not a poetry background, so what is obvious to me may not be to you and vice versa. Comedy is born of pain, sometimes poetry is, an exorcism (of ghosts), a reaction to what is around, and god knows, anything is used as inspiration.
So,
I'm sorry if you and some of the others, missed the tongue-in cheek (oh, god, he thinks, now I'm failing as a comdendian), Eve picked up on it (an audience of one, well not a total failure)
So,
What you tell me to get over, I saw as an inspiration, and I thought I did.
Failure on my part (know your audience)
Let's move on (again), the real purpose of this is the critics, I feel bad for leaving less than valid criticsm, i.e Wow! too often, I do try, and hope that some of it is valid and received well. Alot of what I've received has been helpful, some only as validation. AND I treasure the ones that illustrate what I've done (either way) and I like the jokes left behind also.

The real purpose here is criticism as inspiration
Sometimes the comments say more than the poem.
To perfect the craft.
Give examples, thank, do.
I like the people who catch my sloppiness, awkwardness, the misspelling that are not deliberate.

 

[Christina O. Leigh]

....................

 

[twelveoone]

In other words...
People should give "constructive criticism" by being kind and helpful. I have made a few comments and at the end I always say "No harm meant". I think it's very important to always say something kind.

"Treat others as you would like to be treated"

You're probably a lot nicer than I am. Although, if it is a sensitive subject, I make it a point of not making suggestions, but ask questions instead.
If it is somebody I know and I know it's not "near and dear" to them, "Yo, whadda you on drugs..."

A couple left on my door...on something not "near and dear"

you're insane
so, what kind of chair was it?
I'll give you 100 on the thermometer since your poem made me grin--the kind of smile that shows teeth.


I felt like I was
the one filled with alcohol after reading this..Mountain Kings and late night TV and god knows what else. A poem that I can't compare to painting for once...all right maybe a Dali, but not smooth...more hyper. To good to be called a mere "exercise".

my buds, you gotta love'm

I never meant to imply we should be deadly serious either,

How about you, Christine, any good comments recieved?

 

[Christina O. Leigh]

/.................

 

[My Erotic Tail]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Interact 8 -

nah, just havin' a little fun, useless though,don't think the moron makes it over here.

There are two good threads here, Art's Poem Academy, this because of the authors, and from time to time others show up.
Art thank you for what you are trying to do.

Later I'll go edit the intro post, leave this for examples of useful critical comments.
I puttin' the mouse away -1201

wait...anonamouse is 1201?
hehehe...love that name!

the YIn of the Yang to the POEM academy thread
is I don't roam lit as much as usual and see/visit
others threads near as much!

So when I heard of the Interact I had to research
and found this post curious...there is nothing wrong
with two screen names...

some post threads or comments under
one name and submit under another to
keep the one bombs down..
example: jthserra~
his poems got hit a lot over his criticism
so I suggested/ well elizabetht too that he
critic under one name and write under another.
protects his stories/poems. He and ydd were the
two most posting comments for awhile, they did as
the lizard and changed colors but remain here!
I see nothing wrong with that if votes/ratings
matter that much to you! I'm dense and
Honor means alot more than votes!
so my two names I claim proudly...yep it's me!
(dense maybe?) but my purpose is that my old
computer barely opens my submission page due
to so much to down load on one page...so spread
it out a bit so they'll open and next year after the
survival contest I will delelte a lot of poems/stories.
Keep the best of the best

anonymous...(NOT anonamouse)
protects his poems/stories this way!
I guess, my best estimate...obviously his harsh
words stir writers. so his stuff is not tarnished
by vengence of the one bomb frenzy

well I heard about the Interact...
I came I saw I posted...grin!
Art~